Talk:Internalized sexism

Emphasise research citations

Numerous citations cite low quality sources such as Psychologytoday.com or Huffingtonpost.com

This article will be strengthened by linking statements to published research literature instead.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levels_of_evidence for more information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.13.186.32 (talk) 14:39, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

[untitled section]

Comment: Note that this article currently only refers to internalized sexism in relation to women. In theory, I suppose that there's no reason why men cannot be regarded as exhibiting internalized sexism towards themselves -- for instance believing, as is common, that they need to be "tough" and "manly" at all times, and that it is not appropriate for them to show or feel tender feelings or upset, or any other aspect of what they consider to be weakness, regardless of their true feelings, might be an example of this. But I can't find this regarded as such anywhere in the literature. -- The Anome (talk) 20:32, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

no. Poetries (talk) 20:38, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Reverted to previous edition

After a recent edit the article became about Internalized Misogyny only, making a multi-gendered issue into a single-gendered issue. If the previous editor has a problem with that, they can create a page for "Internalized Misogyny" instead of biasing this one. _EDIT_ Just created an account, because I was going to add pages for Internalized Misogyny and Internalized Misandry myself. However, the sources for the original article were subpar (A Wordpress Blog is NOT a definitive source) and as such I will request the pages to be created by someone with more time for doing so in depth.

Sally's Edit

You give a good overview of internalized sexism (I've noted the two comments above about including internalized sexism for men or more discussion of those in the LGBT sphere, so I won't suggest edits about that!) It would be cool to see more examples of the "Television and Cinema" examples of internalized sexism - any specific shows that have been criticized for this - for ex. two and a half men? More specific examples (and citations fro those) would be great because you have a lot of good content. It would also be interesting to include a section which discusses the fighting back against internalized sexism, this could feature celebrities, ad campaigns, tv shows, etc that promote equality amongst the sexes or empower women or those most effected by internalized sexism, ex. Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Hollaback, Dove beauty campaigns <- although it's funny to note they also own the Axe products. Also can you elaborate more on the symptoms and results of internalized sexism if it goes untreated? This is a really interesting topic, good work! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Svs658 (talk • contribs) 20:38, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

ValkanasV's Response

Thank you for the feedback! While we are hesitant to put a section on "symptoms and results" because this is not necessarily a clinical disorder, we do like the idea of adding a section on responses to internalized sexism or how to resolve the issues that exist. We have begun the section but there are limited sources on the topic so we would value any additional input from other users! Valkanasv (talk) 20:42, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Grace's Comments

While this article has several awesome points, it is written with a biased nature and is primarily focused on internalized sexism towards women. Men can be sexist towards other men who do not conform to gender norms. Balancing the perspectives will make the article more applicable and give it a broader scope.

Also, in the “Modes of Internalization: Early Childhood Inculturation” I would change the words, “females” and “males” to young boys and girls. Female and male is a sex classification that can refer to any mammal or insect. It’s nit-picky, but word choice matters here.

Also, this could be because I’m super into video games and the whole GamerGate shindig is happening currently, but there is a whole body of literature out there about young children decoding gender norms from videogames (which is much more interactive), and how constant exposure to sexualized and victimized representations of women instill these gender expectations onto both young boys and girls that becomes ingrained and internalized with long-term exposure. Might be something to look into.

Sources look great as well as the article thus far. Graciehope (talk) 20:47, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

I agree on the biased thing: "Internalized sexism is when women enact sexist actions and attitudes towards themselves and other women." That is definition of "Internalized Misogyny" not "Internalized Sexism"! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.162.222.186 (talk) 19:09, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

I would suggest looking at Tracy Dietz' "An Examination of Violence and Gender Role Portrayals in Video Games: Implications for Gender Socialization and Aggressive Behavior." Basically she writes that young boys and girls rely upon expectations about both masculinity and femininity to interpret interactions and develop expectations for themselves and for others around them. And that these expectations in turn become roles. And because “roles are used to define the self, they become a point of reference for organizing and classifying the world and ultimately, as a basis for action…Thus, the roles internalized by the child, including gender, become for the child, and later for the adult, a basis for other roles and for action. [This] gender role that is internalized…has a significant impact upon the perspective of that individual and the additional roles she or he assumes in later life.” Because video gaming is a highly gendered practice, young boths have more exposure to gaming early on. In Kristen Lucas and John Sherry's "Sex Differences in Video Games Play," we see that video games are linked with acquisition of computer literacy, improvement of cognitive and attention skills, development of a positive attitude toward technology, and entry into jobs in high-tech fields. Therefore we see internalized sexism impacting young boys and girls from an earlier stage that may contribute to a lack of women in STEM fields a well. Just some thoughts. Graciehope (talk) 19:39, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Deonte' comments

I really appreciated this article because it was written in a perspective that I normally do not consider. My only real criticisms are that there are not enough examples in the "Television and Cinema" section, so maybe you guys should add something to it or take it out completely. In the "Early Childhood Inculturation section" I would have like to see you guys utilize a different angle in which how do single mother's with young boys enact Internalized misogyny. That is the only real criticism I have of this section because you state that only boys can learn from men and girls and learn this from both men and women. Other than that, great job of attempting to write an article with these unique rules!Deontegib 13 (talk) 02:20, 14 November 2014 (UTC)Deontegib_13

International Encyclopedia of Men and Masculinities

the reference paragraph actually reads, "despite contrary claims, misandry lacks the systemic...antipathy of misogyny...Naomi Schor (1987) cautions, assuming that misandry mirrors misogyny decides questions of gender and power to a male/female binary and ignores within-gender hierarchies...Bell Hooks cautions in Black Looks (1992) that there has never been a time when african-american men have no been represented fantastically and stereotypically. these are exemplified by the sumultaneous attraction-repulsion of popular depictions of the eroticised and hyper masculine african-american of entertainment and of professional sports."

the author jumps from criticizing the theoretical framework of misandry by arguing quite simply, that if misandry were to be considered a valid concept then they could no longer consider feminism a valid concept because it would ultimately reduce their entire conceptualization of the world to a dichotomous relationship between male and female (even though his arguments for misogyny already assume the position). and then goes on to consider an example where men have been historically and systematically oppressed by virtue of the representation of culturally masculine traits. it is for this reason that i have removed this reference and the sentences that it supported as the reference is ultimately confusing and fails to synthesize the opposing views. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.2.159.215 (talk) 02:43, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Critique of Internalized Sexism

    The article of Internalized Sexism has a short lead (overview).  The editors ought to expand on the history of the word/theory to provide the reader with better background knowledge of the concept of Internalized Sexism.  The editor(s) never reference any psychologists/researchers who may have conducted ground-breaking studies in recognizing Internalized Sexism.   
    The sections within the article:  Effects, Types – Internalized Heterosexism, Internalized Misogyny and Internalized Misandry, Modes of Internalization - Early childhood inculturation, Television/Cinema and Advertising and Combating Internalized Sexism are relevant to the topic.  However, the concept of Internalized Misogyny is a systemic prolonged epidemic and the editor(s) only provide a short excerpt about the issue.
    After providing a short excerpt on the definition of Internalized Misogyny, the editor(s) predominately focus (over represent) on misogyny in the section Modes of Internalization.  The editor(s) discuss the ways girls are raised by their mothers and the negative ways women are represented in the media and advertising.  Modes of Internalization leading to Internalized Heterosexism and Internalized Misandry are discounted (under-represented) and vaguely discussed.  Due to the need to educate people in changing times, the modes of Internalized Heterosexism an Internalized Misandry should be equally considered.
    A check of a few citations (1, 4 and 11) within the article revealed that the information is cited from neutral psychology reference sources.  Throughout the article, editor(s) make reference to research studies but they do not provide the statistics/data.  For instance, in the section, Internalized Misogyny, the editor(s) states, “Many research studies have been conducted to examine the correlation between internalized misogyny and negative psychological consequences in minority, lesbian, bisexual, and heterosexual women. Certain forms of therapy have been known to limit the effects of internalized misogyny on mental health.”  In this specific claim, there is no citation/reference behind the editor’s statement. 
    In another section located in Internalized Misandry, the editor(s) provides the definition of Internalized Misandry.  The editor(s) then appears to offer a biased opinion because there is no citation/reference behind the statement, “Because of this, men may form internalized feelings of hatred for aspects of their masculine performance, but not to the full degree of internalized misandry."
    In the section, “Modes of Internalization,” the editor(s) discusses only four particular movies (Fatal Attraction, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty and The Little Mermaid) that portray internal misogynistic ideologies.  In advertising, the editor(s) does not “call out” any companies that portray internal misogynistic ideologies such as Carl’s Jr. restaurant ads, Victoria’s Secret and Hydroxycut to name a few.  The editor(s) should also praise companies that reject internalized misogynistic views such as Dove. 
    Lastly, editor(s) end the article with the section, Combating Internalized Sexism.  Once again, the editor(s) makes a statement about research studies, but he/she/they does not provide a citation, reference or data.  The editor(s) states, “While a lot of research has been done on internalized sexism, further research is needed to develop concrete strategies to combat the effects of internalized sexism.  Present research helps brings to light cultural practices that result in internalized sexism, therefore helping people to understand which practices need to change. For example, observations of conversation made people aware of certain conversational practices that promote internalized sexism.”
    The editor fails to note organizations which aim to combat Internal Sexism.  One organization named Cultural Bridges to Justice conducts “workshops which encourages women to recognize and examine the harmful impact of a lifetime of sexist messages on their own self-image, as well as their attitudes toward other women. Exercises and skills are offered to affirm women, women’s skills and to challenge internalized sexism, in our own lives, for girls in our lives, and in our women’s organizations” (www.culturalbridgestojustice.org).

A question to consider in regards to the section, “Internalized Misogyny” is knowing the harmful effects of misogynistic ideologies, why do women continue to hurt themselves and each other? Another question to consider is should internal misandry be considered as significant as internal misogyny? Don’t males suffering from internal misandry already have an “upper hand” given a patriarchal society? Works Cited "www.culturalbridgestojustice.org." 2011. Cultural Bridges to Justice. website. 15 September 2016. Dfrankl7 (talk) 19:13, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

There is no such thing as "misandry," you woman-hating jackass.

Somewhat lacking

Realistically I should have known better, but I came here looking for some proof that Internalised Misogyny actually exists ... as in looking for the root research which establishes it as something other than "something everyone knows". I failed to find it. Given the nature of the concept and it's importance in current theory - surely someone who has actually studied this can edit and point to the research? It can't be the first citation ... I'm looking for the peer reviewed researched here. Where did the concept come from? Who is credited with what research which confirms the theory?

Right now this article fails to establish the basis on which all of it's claims are based. And I agree ... there's a problem with bias which someone who is well acquainted with the topic should address. 203.158.32.154 (talk) 21:50, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

The "internalized misandry" section needs to be deleted. There is no such thing.

Men's Rights Trash

There is NO such thing as "misandry." That is a bogus word used by a woman-hating group called MRAs. The entire section on "internalized misandry" needs to be DELETED.