Talk:2018 Toronto mayoral election

Faith Goldy

Faith Goldy doesn't use the term white nationalist to refer to herself, why is it on this page? No surprise the page is locked. Very sad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.224.178.4 (talk) 20:21, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

I'm wondering the samething. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.103.211.146 (talk) 02:48, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

First of all, the "white nationalist" description is reliably sourced. More importantly, Goldy describes herself as a Euro-Canadian nationalist - these are her own words in her own verified Twitter account. I think "white nationalist" should stay based on sources, but if using her own words will prevent an edit war, "Euro-Canadian nationalist" could work, too. Any other thoughts, here? Cheers, Dawn Bard (talk) 01:30, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

What do you think "Euro-Canadian Nationalism" means, though, when it's a self-description coined by an alt-right personality who has appeared on the neo-Nazi Daily Stormer and recites the Fourteen Words by heart? And who is described in reliable sources with passages such as: "Goldy’s forceful defence and the opinions she expressed about the issues that motivated the organizers [of the Charlottesville Unite The Right rally] should be required viewing for anyone looking for insight into the long-term goals of the white nationalist movement." [1] "Euro-Canadian" is code for "white", a term invented by a group whose tactics include relabelling themselves to attempt to gain legitimacy. We should describe such people as they are described by reliable sources, not how they attempt to describe themselves. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 12:37, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Oh, I agree completely, and I've restored the phrase "white nationalist" to the article a couple of times at this point. I meant to use her self description as a "Euro Canadian" nationalist as evidence that the entry here should go ahead and call her a white nationalist, because it's really the same thing, though I obviously didn't make that point clearly enough. I only suggested using Goldy's own words as a compromise to keep the page stable if necessary - it's becoming an edit war. So to be clearer than I was above: ideally I think the well sourced term "white nationalist" should stay. Any other thoughts? Cheers, Dawn Bard (talk) 15:10, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

I see what you're saying about compromise, but really I would prefer to use the reliably sourced description rather than capitulate to various swarms of things just so that they'll stop edit warring. My thinking on it is this: if we describe her as "Euro-Canadian Nationalist" in the bio entry, readers will wonder what Goldy's neologism means. Normally in those cases we would avoid the word altogether, or at least make a piped wikilink to a known term, but in this case the best we could do would be a piped link to white nationalism anyway. So we ought to just call it what it is, as reliable sources describe it. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 19:07, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

The description now says far right , which is a lot more fair to her views. I'm not quite sure being a "European Nationalist" is the same as being a "White Nationalist". The identity of a "white identity" is almost an entirely American concept. If Faith Goldy does not refer to her views as being "White Nationalist" then she isn't one and putting the term up there is you subjective opinion, for which there is no place on a so called encyclopedia. Please keep your opinion and interpretations to yourself :)

The issue is that reliable sources have described her as a white nationalist, which means, contrary to what you've said, it isn't a "subjective opinion". The fact that she chooses to use a euphemism to describe herself is not the only thing that Wikipedia should take into account, if it should take it into account at all. An encyclopedia should not use euphemisms. "Euro-Canadian nationalist" is a neologism that has no set meaning, as Ivanvector pointed out above. Terms used here should be precise. The sourced descriptor "white nationalist" should be restored. Cheers, Dawn Bard (talk) 04:09, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Please note, as editors we haven't seen before continue to revert the descriptor, I have opened a discussion at the biographies of living persons noticeboard. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 13:00, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Goldy’s Wikipedia page describes her as a political commentator and a reporter. It does not explicitly state that Goldy is a white nationalist, and instead says that she challenged this label. Your personal opinion, which is cited from an opinion article, has no place as someone’s official description. Washingtonediter (talk) 20:30, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

If we are so concerned about the fact that she disputes the "white nationalist" label, why aren't we at least using her own self-descption as a "Euro-Canadian nationalist"? Reliable sources have described her as a white nationalist, so the description should stand, as described above. Cheers, Dawn Bard (talk) 21:11, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

/* Faith Goldy */ has been a third place candidate according to most polls. How come the "major candidates" section does not list her, but includes two other far weaker candidates instead? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:F1DF:F2D1:EC16:8B31:155:F8F7 (talk) 22:07, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Info Box

I think we need to decide who will be in the info box. Faith Goldy has been added, removed, and readded. Despite how you feel about her and her views, she is quite a polarizing public figure who often makes headlines. It could be argued that she's better known than Keesmaat. What are everyone's thoughts? RoyalObserver (talk) 02:09, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

If that's your argument, provide the sources. Tory is the incumbent, and Keesmaat has for a long time been subject of media speculation of her political ambitions, and her campaign is actually getting coverage. Goldy was not and is not. Miscellaneous people who have as yet had no impact at all on election coverage should not be given undue attention here. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 11:53, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

The only poll so far that lists her has Faith Goldy at 3%. I don't think that's enough to list her as a major candidate.[2]

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Faith Goldy by Peter Duke.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:52, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 August 2018

Please add Christopher Brosky's neo-Nazi/white supremacist views. CharlemagneXVII (talk) 16:40, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 16:54, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

 Partly done: (courtesy ping ElHef) I looked up references myself, but CharlemagneXVII it is customary to provide reliable sources for any edit you wish to make. Per the biographies of living persons policy, no potentially controversial or defamatory information may be added about a living person without a reliable source. Thanks for your suggestion. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 17:07, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Endorsements

The reference cited for Mike Layton's endorsement of Jennifer Keesmaat seems to be a tweet where Layton discusses how the speed limit in residential areas should be lowered to 30km/h. I fail to see how this is an endorsement of Keesmaat. Is there somewhere else where Layton has endorsed Keesmaat? Mark Alfred (talk) 20:25, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

@Nomoskedasticity and RoyalObserver: endorsements cited to tweets by the endorser are usually acceptable - they must be presumed to be statements in their own words, and all of the endorsements we currently list are cited to tweets. The problem I have with the Gillian Smith endorsement is that she does not seem to be notable (doesn't have an article). Should we include endorsements by non-notable individuals? Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 16:10, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

I can't see why we should. How would we choose among the possibilities?? Nomoskedasticity (talk) 16:33, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Jennifer Keesmaat has been endorsed by Olivia Chow, here (https://twitter.com/oliviachow/status/1041753182425108480) and here (https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/olivia-chow-endorses-jennifer-keesmaat-for-toronto-mayor) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.80.172.170 (talk) 00:43, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Colours

It appears that Jennifer Keesmaat's website has been tweaked in the last few days to adjust the key colour of the campaign materials. Formerly, the shade of red used on the site was #F07263. It is now adjusted to a different red, #E93D30.

Since this page has protection levels beyond my own permissions, can someone adjust the colours?

Thanks! Rgroen (talk) 15:21, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Good catch. Thanks for pointing it out. Colours updated. // sikander { talk } 02:26, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi sikander I see its been changed from #F07263, but now is #ED6055. From my review of the jenniferkeesmaat.com site, it should be #E93D30. Rgroen (talk) 12:58, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Collapsed by default?

Why is the candidate listing collapsed by default? -- Zanimum (talk) 11:55, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Locked?

Does anyone know how long this page will be locked for? Forum put out a second opinion poll but we are unable to add it.

I believe a lot of people turn to Wikipedia to see a list of all opinion polls during an election, so this is a big disservice.

Mikemikem (talk) 12:23, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Hi Mikemikem. The page is protected and can only be edited by users meeting the extended confirmed criteria, and it is locked until after the election, because of users adding information that violates our biographies of living persons policy. If you would like to propose a change you can use the {{edit extended-protected}} template. See the link for instructions. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 12:31, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the poll. Much appreciated Mikemikem (talk) 19:52, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request, September 9, 2018

The September 5 Probit poll has Faith Goldy at 3% and other at 2%. Could the Probit poll entry in the "other" column be broken down accordingly? I don't think a new column is needed but the column entry should say Goldy 3%, Other 2%.[3]

Done. -- Earl Andrew - talk 17:06, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request, October 1, 2018

Could someone please add the Toronto & York District Labour Council's endorsement of Keesmaat to the list of endorsements as per here: [4]

 Done Fish+Karate 10:40, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Faith Goldy

Faith Goldy has been polling over 6%, shouldn't her picture be added to the infobox? Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 17:09, 2 October 2018 (UTC)