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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 205.144.213.202 (talk) at 21:26, 21 November 2019 (→‎Ryan Costello (baseball)). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Ryan Costello (baseball)

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Ryan Costello (baseball) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Nothing but routine coverage. Fails WP:NBASEBALL. Onel5969 TT me 19:10, 18 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Onel5969 TT me 19:10, 18 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 19:26, 18 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Connecticut-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 19:26, 18 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Your reason being? WWGB (talk) 00:37, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
He is matchly old lately. 36.75.179.177 (talk) 01:00, 19 November 2019 (UTC)— 36.75.179.177 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
It's summer in Australia sir. They're the top flight professional league of the country.184.71.204.174 (talk) 04:40, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
ABL is considered a winter league as it is a refuge for low-tier players during the North American winter. WWGB (talk) 05:04, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The best in Australia is not the same level as the best in the world.12.144.5.2 (talk) 05:06, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If he were a Footballer you wouldn't discriminate because every top tier football league in the world seems to be notable.184.71.204.174
Association football has world championships for clubs and countries,and eligible leagues are defined for clubs.Does the ABL qualify for a world baseball title of stature as the highest level of the sport worldwide?12.144.5.2 (talk) 19:36, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(talk) 18:42, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete. Although very unfortunate circumstances, as noted by others above, fails WP:NBASE. Dmoore5556 (talk) 05:55, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Tragic news but subject never played in the MLB and is lacking in notability. sixtynine • whaddya want? • 06:29, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep This one is really interesting and difficult. I struggled with my Keep vote, but I think it's the right one, and here's why. I did a little research and there was more to unwrap than I expected. First the obvious: subject garnered enormous international coverage because of his untimely passing. Coverage includes ESPN, CNN, the Washington Post, Major League Baseball, People magazine, CBS Sports, Fox News, Sports Illustrated, and obviously tons of coverage in New Zealand and elsewhere. So in a strict reading of WP:NBASE, which says "Some active minor league players receive some coverage from reliable sources, but not enough to satisfy the notability criteria for an independent article.," subject more than satisfies the notability criteria. On the other hand, one could also reasonably argue that notability comes from the single event of his untimely passing, in which case WP:NOTNEWS becomes a legit concern. As does WP:RECENT. Again, the question being: is the subject only newsworthy/notable because he died so young? In fact, actually no. The subject had a notable minor league career, as shown here and here and several other reliable sources. So a BLP actually could have been written even before his passing. So, it's not like he was just some poor kid who was a nobody until he died too young. AND he was scheduled to make his pro debut with that league just 2 days before he died! That, of course, would have automatically given him notability under NBASE. So while this one was tough, because subject received such widespread coverage in his passing - and had notability prior - I believe this BLP should remain. At minimum, per NBASE, we'd need to include subject in a "short, stub-length bio as a section within the article on the franchise's minor league players." But Keep seems like the right answer. It also happens to be a well-written & extremely well-sourced BLP. Better than many we've narrowly voted to Keep. So with the enormous coverage, prior earned notability and everything else considered, I just don't see that a Delete vote is appropriate here. X4n6 (talk) 12:11, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    NBASE does not list the Australian league as one of the ones conferring notability!--12.144.5.2 (talk) 16:43, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy keep. You're right, X4n6. 36.75.179.177 (talk) 14:43, 19 November 2019 (UTC)Strike dupe vote.Onel5969 TT me 15:32, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment 36.75.179.177 is clearly not here to contribute to the discussion, so their above "speedy keep" vote ought to also be voided. sixtynine • whaddya want? • 18:48, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As noted,X4n6 is incorrect in assuming that the league Costello was about to play in was among those that confer notability to those who play in it.12.144.5.2 (talk) 19:36, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Again, a complete response to the IP requires a little discussion. As the first two sentences in our own entry at Australian Baseball League state: "The Australian Baseball League (ABL) is a professional baseball league in Australia. The league is governed by the Australian Baseball Federation (ABF)." Our article on professional baseball also includes the ABL.

Keep As mentioned above, if he were a footballer, his whereabouts in Wikipedia would not be discussed at all. He also played in the Australian main league. --Bodhi-Baum (talk) 07:49, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The next lead paragraph says: "Because the ABL's season takes place from November to February, the ABL is one of baseball's recognised winter leagues (although it is summer in Australia when the season takes place), where often minor league prospects in North America are assigned as an English-speaking alternative to the primary Spanish-speaking Latin America-based winter leagues." And the link to winter leagues lists the ABL: "Currently eight minor leagues with seasons that happen during the "off-season" of Major League Baseball." Finally, under "Organisation" the ABL article states: "The ABL was originally jointly owned by Major League Baseball (75%) and the Australian Baseball Federation (25%) before the ABF became the sole owners prior to the 2016–17 season."

So what becomes clear is that, in it's own right, the ABL is currently an independent, professional baseball league. While at the same time, it is also still being used by MLB as a winter, minor league. As to the IP's legit concern that the ABL isn't listed at NBASE, perhaps that's because, per the article, the ABL has only been wholly owned and separated from the MLB since the 2016-17 season. So it's likely NBASE just needs updating, as per WP:PGCHANGE, WP policies are neither final, nor sacrosanct. So we may need to discuss, on that policy's page, some updating to include the newly independent ABL. Just as we may revise our pages on the ABL and the winter leagues as necessary. But all those are very separate issues from what we're determining here.

With respect to the IP, those discussions don't belong here. Yes, the NBASE doesn't currently include the ABL. But here that doesn't actually matter. Because the subject's notability could still have been established, before his untimely passing and ABL debut, based solely on his minor league notability. Which is totally consistent with NBASE. So IMO, Keep is still the right answer. X4n6 (talk) 01:12, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment He never even played a game in Australia, so why are we having such a huge discussion over the ABL? sixtynine • whaddya want? • 21:54, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - would just like to point out that the International League, Pacific Coast League, Mexican League, Eastern League, Southern League, Texas League, California League, Carolina League, Florida State League, American Association of Independent Professional Baseball, and probably another dozen or so leagues in the U.S. are all professional leagues, zero of which confer notability.Onel5969 TT me 01:28, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your comment. Actually, per NBASE, while playing in those leagues would not itself confer notability, significant "coverage from reliable sources" while playing in those leagues might. X4n6 (talk) 02:01, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, belated congrats on your recent 10 years on this project! Cheers! X4n6 (talk) 02:09, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
MLB did not divest its share of the ABL because it saw the ABL as becoming a peer...as it continues to use it for player development it clearly sees things otherwise.How much of the coverage of Costello does not relate to his untimely death?...(I am still smarting over the failure to delete the article on the juvenile athlete Ellie Soutter,whose suicide on her 18th birthday was her main notoriety outside her age-bracket niche).--12.144.5.2 (talk) 02:57, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I felt that the missing element for GNG was sustained coverage. This discussion is likely to end before we can say if coverage would qualify as sustained. BiologicalMe (talk) 15:06, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Sustained coverage is not the threshold. To the contrary, per WP:NTEMP ongoing coverage is not necessary. X4n6 (talk) 08:31, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - But there is also WP:SUSTAINED to be looked at in the same context. Which would seem to apply in this case.Onel5969 TT me 11:31, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
So can anyone point to serious coverage of him that predates his death?Wikipedia:One event is also relevant.I have no objection to his being covered in the minor league players list for his organization...he just doesn't seem to rate a standalone article.12.144.5.2 (talk) 17:16, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment SUSTAINED actually supports the reasoning in my original Keep. Which is that subject had sufficient notability for a standalone prior to his passing based solely on his minor league career. This BLP could be expanded to include that coverage. Two examples are found here and here. More exists. Even this article following his passing, says he was an All-Star. So merging this BLP into some broader article would invariably mean this content & coverage would be lost. X4n6 (talk) 20:05, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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