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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Diablo del Oeste (talk | contribs) at 13:30, 14 April 2020 (→‎Rock music: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Lorraine Chandler

Well done on creating the new article for her. Does she not need adding to the Deaths in 2020 page ? - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 15:14, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but the sources ("...it's being reported on several music sites ...") are a little questionable at the moment, I think. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:16, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Now done (and not reverted), but I think we're still waiting for a source for Les Chadwick.... Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:45, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I must have missed that one altogether ! It is easy to forget just how old these 1960s beat boys are now becoming - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 13:35, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I found this this morning for Chadwick. Presumably that will suffice ? - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 10:47, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed - thank you! I'd searched the Liverpool Echo website earlier without any luck - it must have just disappeared from it. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:53, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Pearl King (songwriter) is not Earl King

"Pearl King (songwriter)" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Pearl King (songwriter). Since you had some involvement with the Pearl King (songwriter) redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. RocknRollArchivist (talk) 15:26, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RocknRollArchivist (talk) 19:40, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. You are quite correct, and I'm very sorry to have to admit that I've been wrong on this point in the (dim and distant) past. Pearl King was Dave Bartholomew's wife. Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:09, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fats Domino recordings

Hello,

Based on many years of painstaking work on the compilation of discographies as part of a team of enthusiasts of classic rock and roll, I suggest you get acquainted with my first wiki project. If successful, it is planned to create similar pages for Little Richard, Carl Perkins, Charlie Rich, Larry Williams, Jerry Lee Lewis, Esquerita... I apologize for my poor English and would be very grateful for any corrections and improvements to the style, as well as suggestions for improving the structure of the page. Cheers and rock on!

RocknRollArchivist (talk) 19:54, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WOW!! Very impressive! My only initial comments are that (1) song titles should be inside inverted commas, not in italics (so, "Blue Monday" not Blue Monday), and (2) citations should be in the <ref></ref> form (see WP:INCITE) rather than linking directly to external sites. Those are just my first thoughts - I'll take a longer look in due course. But, thanks for your efforts! Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:14, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your comments. I took your suggestions into account and almost finished the page. Please re-visit it when you have time. I also ask you to read my suggestion about the title of the Fats Domino song "Ain't That a Shame".RocknRollArchivist (talk) 18:14, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Notability

On my user page, I have recently added Walter Rhodes (musician) to my legendary 'Reds or blues' section. Tee hee... well, a far number of editors seem to be unable to write a musician's article without using "legendary" at least once, so I thought I would have a go too. Joking apart, my conundrum is whether Rhodes passes muster in the notability stakes. Four recorded tracks, with only two actually released, is a meagre output, but his association with Charley Patton is well documented, along with his somewhat unique instrument for a blues musician. I will leave you to have a look at the links I have found, duly noting that some are considerably more reliable than others, and would appreciate your thoughts. There is no rush on this one. I am still trying to string together an article for the other red link in that section, and seem to have got writer's cramp, or the jitters, or "Yeah, the tremors in my thigh bone". Ta,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 23:05, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have access to this article? I would say he's marginal, but why not go for it and see if anyone pushes for its removal? Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:30, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that is probably the best line of approach. I am banking on his uniqueness, as per Jstor and others, as tipping the balance towards notability. That is, when I get round to actually drafting the article. Cheers, - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 13:41, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I like your Robert Johnson rephrasing!

Very much! That's all! Botterweg14 (talk) 16:04, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Boyd Gilmore

A recent edit here has changed his date (and place) of birth. To be fair, the editor cites [1] stating June 12, 1910, as opposed to the previous June 1, 1905. There are discrepancies in that AllMusic also quotes June 12, 1910 (or 1913 depending on which part of their article you read); whereas Stefan Wirz gives "b. June 1, 1905 near Inverness, Sunflower County, Mississippi." Which is what I think I must have used when composing the original article in November 2016, Does BARE contain anything ? Plus, as it stands, the Wiki article now shows born 1910 in the main text and infobox, but still 1905 in the categories.

A bit of a bugger's muddle. DCI Hamilton to the rescue ? - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 00:55, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Komara, Edward; Lee, Peter (2004). The Blues Encyclopedia. Routledge. p. 367. ISBN 978-1-135-95832-9.
As you say, there's a disagreement between Komara, which gives June 12, 1910, in Belzoni, and BARE, which (p.188) gives June 1 [sic], 1905, "near Inverness, Sunflower County", with a footnote (p.447) which states: "The 1910 census disproves both the SSDI and Death certificate birth dates of 1910." ("SSDI" = Social Security Death Index.) SSDI in fact gives his birth date as June 1 [sic], 1910 (not June 12) - although the California Death Index gives June 12, 1910. Census information gives him as aged 14 in 1920, 22 in 1930.... but so far I haven't been able to find him anywhere on the 1910 census. You'll have seen this, with the comment "He was born June 1, 1905 (some sources say June 12, 1910)." That is the sort of approach we should be adopting, I think. We need to move this discussion to the article talk page, perhaps, if we can't resolve it here, and I'll ping @Twixister:. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:42, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

re Fortunatus Wright

I just think saying just "Cheshire" is confusing, because it is not modernly part of Cheshire. Would you be OK with something like "then part of Cheshire"? Or even "modernly Merseyside, then part of Chester"? I have used similar wording for people for people born in West Virginia when it was still part of Virginia. Brianyoumans (talk) 23:55, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The general guidance here is to refer to places by the name that was used at the the time they were born. No-one with an interest in 18th century history would use the modern term "Merseyside". I would object less strongly to a wording like "..then in Cheshire...", though I think it's unnecessary. But, the main problem with that article is the general lack of referencing - I'll try and get round to that, as Wright has been on my "to do" list for a long time. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:18, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 27 January 2020

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Steve Martin Caro

Well done; cleaning up the section that said there had been a final reunion. This was apparently in a private room somewhere and it didnt make sense to report it as a performing group, playing publicly. I tried to modify the headline to reflect that there WAS no new group but I didnt know how to neatly remove the headline. I did not understand why a headline was there about something which never happened. Youre obviously a classic music lover like me. I WISH Left Banke could have reunited before Michael's 2015 death, while Martin Caro, Lookofsky/Brown, Cameron and Finn were alive. That would have been a legitimate reunion with substantial core members. But they waited too long and couldnt achieve this. Then, from 2015 to 2020, 3 of those 4 passed away simply due to mortality and the passage of time. It may have been nice for a reunion to occur, but wasnt worthy of a reference source to emphasize speculation on an event that MIGHT have happened, but did not. The editor Floridakitties really went crazy, didnt they? Haha. Thanks for simplifying and improving the article.

[...If only one day Wikipedia would stop its hardcore insistence that Oswald absolutely and unequivocally killed JFK. Wikipedia made itself judge and jury in supporting the obviously false Warren Report and its insulting magic bullet claims. Wikipedia convicted a man who could not have been convicted, and its position on this has made me unable to ever fully trust Wikipedia. It's a good reference for things such as bird species, but as crooked as any source can get when politics is approached.] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.118.111.102 (talk) 18:49, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Notice of edit warring noticeboard discussion

Information icon Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. 46.208.194.84 (talk) 20:52, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Complainant blocked. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:26, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Bernard Besman

I notice you are composing an article on this individual. You may be aware that there is some mention of him in the John Lee Hooker article, and there is more detail about their working relationship in this book, if you have access to it.[1] If not, I have a copy which I am happy to dig out, if that helps. Regards, - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 15:22, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ Robert Palmer. Deep Blues. Penguin Books. p. 242-3. ISBN 978-0-14-006223-6.
Thank you! I have that book somewhere so will burrow into the library (=pile), and I'm also waiting for a fearsome lady to deliver a copy of JLH's biography (most but not all of which is online, I know). But I think it will be a brief stubby bio, which is pretty much all I have the appetite for at the moment I'm afraid.... Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:58, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Draft:Dan Doo

Greetings. Could you help me With thia subject? Also maybe Draft:152 Nassau? Thanks. FloridaArmy (talk) 10:41, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well, there's this source ("The Old Man Who Lived In The West" - clearly the same song). Googling that title takes you here...... and to here (scroll down to "37 The Old Man Who Lived in the West ") and here... and then back to here. Good luck with sorting that out!! Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:42, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. That's helpful. I found Wee Cooper O'Fife. Interestingly there's a connection to Draft:152 Nassau. Tha ks again. FloridaArmy (talk) 21:48, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Jazz Scene USA

This is an interesting subject. I'd create a draft on it but am exhausted by how difficult the article creation process is made for me being required to use AfC. FloridaArmy (talk) 21:10, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I'm sure you could get round to it before I do. Lots of useful info here... but would it meet WP:RS criteria? Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:01, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nedern Brook Wetlands

Nicely done, your new article on the Nedern Brook Wetlands. I was just patrolling new pages and thought I could add some small token edit, but could not come up with any. ◄ Sebastian 21:48, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Doo Wop edit warring

Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. InBoxed (talk) 07:21, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You have been reverted by myself and by another independent editor. I have started a discussion on the article talk page and asked you to respond. You have not done so. Please learn the basics of editing here. Thanks. Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:15, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

List of 2010s deaths in rock and roll

Have you any idea why List of 2017 deaths in rock and roll seems to have been hived off to a separate article from the above ? This appears to have occurred back in September 2019. I only give these lists a passing glance these days (maybe the same with you), but it seems a bit odd and unnecessary to me. Regards - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 16:35, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No idea - have you tried asking Onetwothreeip, who split it off? Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:38, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Good idea - so I have asked him/her/it. - Derek R Bullamore (talk)
The main thrust of the reply was "If I recall, this was split from an extremely large article, where the appropriate remedy would be to split the list into articles by year. If I had only split the 2017 section from the article, this would have been as an emergency measure, and this was likely the largest section. When I get to a computer I will try to confirm this for you. As the rest hasn't been split out yet, I can do the rest if I can find time to do so"
Frankly, I have rather lost contact/interest with these behemoth articles, but am I right to assume that such a split down into each year is not desirable ? Or, like me, do you not much care either way ? Conversely, is there some other editor(s) that may have an interest/viewpoint ? Cheers - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 22:01, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure how many other editors are interested, but I tend to agree that we should stick to decades. Mind you, there will be a heck of a lot of ancient rockers heading skywards (or not) in the 2020s, I suspect. I still long for the possibility that one day we might establish some sensible criteria for inclusion on those lists.... Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:05, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 1 March 2020

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Bedtime reading

I am on my second reading of Elvis Costello's 2016 autobiography/memoir, Unfaithful Music & Disappearing Ink (New York: Blue Rider Press. ISBN 978-0399185762). I suspect his work is not your cup of tea, but it is a highly intelligent, illuminating and frank expose of his life and career. I may tempt you by quoting a passage when he describes performing at the Roundhouse and states "The last time I'd been there was in 1970, to see The Incredible String Band singing and pantomiming through a multimedia extravaganza called "U". They had papier-mache masks, a sitar, and a girl called Licorice, which wasn't the sort of stuff you admitted liking in 1977. However, while the Incredible's earlier song "All Writ Down" is as true and heartbreaking to me today as it was at the age of fifteen..." To be fair, it is the only mention of one of your faves in the book; but Rolling Stone said the book was "Truly remarkable" and The Sunday Times stated it is "Beautifully written". I think you might enjoy reading it as much as I have - which is almost twice.

On the same subject, have you tried Perfecting Sound Forever : The Story of Recorded Music - Greg Milner - ISBN 978-1-84708-140-7 ? A brilliantly researched tale of how music has been recorded, from wax cylinder through to the digitalised bollocks of today. Jarvis Cocker says on the cover of the book, "Very, very, very few books will change the way you listen to music, This is one such book. Read it". It is really fascinating and the research Mr. Milner has done is extraordinary. It really opened my ears, and these days I'm half deaf !

I still have another part of my last Xmas stocking to explore. That is a biography of Marc Bolan - I suspect it will be rather fourth division, compared to my two previous recommendations.

Sleep well - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 00:13, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the recommendations. The Perfecting Sound Forever book looks good - especially for only 50p via a well-known online retailer...! The trouble is that I already have a bulging bookcase of unread books, which I may get round to one day... Almost finished the JLH bio, which is also very good. The ISB were one of the first bands I ever went to see, around 1968 - just before I saw Bolan's duo, with a crap mime act called David Bowie at the bottom of the bill. It's all a very long time ago now. I was never a huge Declan fan, though I did like some of his early stuff and he came from my home area. Which reminds me - I'm off to see this band of fellow TRFC supporters later this week - hypochondria permitting, of course. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:17, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, the growing froth over the Kia-Ora virus has put me right off drinking orange squash. When I worked in the shadow of The Liver Birds... sorry the Liver birds, in the 1980s, 50% Digestive biscuit were very popular locally, but by the time I was making plans to go and see what the fuss was about, they had split up. By the time they reformed, I had returned to Yorkshire. Sod's law, I guess. I remember driving past Prenton Park in those days, but when I saw their pitch on the telly recently, I was not sure whether they were getting ready for a footy match or were on the brink of planting spuds. I have no idea who Greg Milner is; but for ten shillings his tome is well worth a punt. Happy days - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 10:45, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Derek, you should stick to the pride of the valleys, much safer! Martinevans123 (talk) 11:01, 3 March 2020 (UTC) p.s. shocked to see that, in one of the music questions on last night's University Challenge, the team thought the very well-known clip of Mr Costello was by "... that American guy, um, what's his name.... I know this one..."[reply]
Martin, it is a sad fact that Costello's quirky mannerisms did not endear him to the masses. But as a songwriter, the fact that he has worked with Sir Macca and His Holiness, the Bacharach says far more about his talents than "Oliver's Army". To be fair, the bright young things on University Challenge, would have needed to raid their grandad's vinyl record collection, to have had much of a chance. Of course, Guy is your man to talk about such telly-based stardom. Far much more cleverer than me, he is. I would have struggled on Nursery Challenge. "Don't start me talking, I could talk all night" - ooh, you've got me going now. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 11:21, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
They even failed to get Gary. "What's this country coming too?" "The youth of today...." etc. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:27, 3 March 2020 (UTC) p.s. you will be relieved to learn that you can avoid the Corvid 19 virus by simply singing the National Anthem while washing your hands.[reply]

I went to Cry me a river

to add "Whitburn, Joel, The Billboard Book of TOP 40 R&B and Hip Hop Hits, Billboard Books, New York 2006 pp. 325-26" and you had beaten me to it. Well done. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 05:26, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Which brings me to my next point. I am one of those editors who, in a song article. believes that there is a place for every version of the song recorded, rather than the sort of blanket statements such as "many other artists recorded it" that one often finds. In discussing this issue with folks who are not wikipedia editors but are . . ....... normal people, I find that they always like seeing those compilations. I happen to feel that what makes a song great is the number and variety of artists who cover it and I think this info belongs in these articles. I will throw in a sort of in-betweener at "Cry me a river", but before I start adding others I'd like to clear it with you first. I have enjoyed reading the previous discussion on your page, I still have my Incredible String Band "5,000 Spirits album, one of the few left over from then and recently picked up an Elvis Costello & Allen Toussaint CD, mostly because of the latter. Carptrash (talk) 18:51, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
To be honest, I haven't really listened to the ISB much for getting on for 50 years (!!) now.... But so far as "Cry Me a River" is concerned, how about adding an external link to the Secondhand Songs site? It may not be totally comprehensive, but it is generally very reliable, I find. It lists 484 versions!! I don't think we should try to list all of them in our article! Or (thinking aloud), say something in the article like: "One site, Secondhand Songs, lists 484 recorded versions of the song" - with a citation. Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:03, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm one of those old fashioned types who is reluctant to link or reference from other web sites because wikipedia is filled, well not filled, but already has too many dead links in it. One of the points of wikipedia is to be the complete, one-stop sosurce for .... everything. But thanks for getting back to me. Carptrash (talk) 19:27, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well.... "...merely being true, or even verifiable, does not automatically make something suitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia....". But I think having 484 recorded versions is sufficiently notable to be mentioned, so I'll try out my second suggestion. Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:33, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Max von Sydow

Mainly a 'crossed in the post' (it having just been announced on the news). Jackiespeel (talk) 15:19, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ITN recognition for Betty Williams (peace activist)

On 20 March 2020, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Betty Williams (peace activist), which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Kees08 (Talk) 19:55, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 29 March 2020

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Chris Kenner

I have recently edited this article again - got to say I do not really know the name, as such. I saw from the article's "revision history" that both of us have 'contributed' between 2015 and 2017. Kenner seems to be one of so many similar tales of those who were robbed, or at least ignored, as bigger fish swallowed up the pool. Anyhow, the bit that intrigues me the most now is the "statutory rape charge", which one source claimed was a frame-up. It appears that Kenner's dependence on alcohol may have been a major factor. Anything more reliable you could unearth might be useful.

I hope you remain virus free - I've had some variant of a shaking fever most of my life; but somehow remain vaguely upright. As ever, regards,

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 23:00, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a little more to the article. Most reliable sources don't say a lot more about the statutory rape charge - other than something along the lines of, she was 15 but he thought she was older - so I don't think we need to go into any more detail than what is there. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:24, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
OK and thanks for your input. I added a bit of polish and do feel that the article is now a reasonable description of his life and career. Stay safe, my friend. - Derek R Bullamore (talk) 15:38, 12 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Rock music

Alright, I would be opening a section in Rock music's Talk to discuss there.--Diablo del Oeste (talk) 13:30, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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