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In English, the language spoken by Croats, Serbs, Bosniaks, and Montenegrins is generally called "Serbo-Croat(ian)". Use of that term in English, which dates back at least to 1864 and was modeled on both Croatian and Serbian nationalists of the time, is not a political endorsement of Yugoslavia, but is simply a label. As long as it remains the common name of the language in English, it will continue to be used here on Wikipedia.
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"Pluricentric" language in four varieties. No, it is the same language. I have no vested interest in entering this argument. But post modernism is completely ruining academia and fueling human conflict, not preventing it. Who came up with the idea of a pluricentric language with distinct varieties? That's just a play of words, a typical post modern approach of inventing terms to complicate and obscure to the point of incoherence where anything is both true and false. There is no way that Oxford or Cambridge Slavicists would have agreed to this lunacy without the influence of corrosive PC authoritarian ideologues. Recently the academics from the region were starting dialogues about how to end the madness they found themselves in where artificial constructs were dividing - I recall a conference invitation - and now the intersectional lunacy has clearly overtaken western Slavicists too. In some way, the Balkans are a mirror of the madness and a foreshadowing of what happens when everyone's subjective whim is equally valid and valuable. They live in societies where they speak the same language, have the same culture and have incredible desire to be with one another and visit and sing the same songs, and live life in closeness, but they all have to go to their university campuses and PRETEND that here is a different language and act like they don't understand one another. This sort of reality leads to nothing but disaster - when we okay ever subjective idea and pretension and put it on equal footing with objective truth you get a state of affairs where everyone knows the truth but everyone denies it. Canlawtictoc (talk) 03:51, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I am challenging the concept of pluricentric language with four varieties: and presenting arguments as to why I believe the idea is absurd. I recognize most editors would simply change the article, but I would like to hear the counter argument first. That is how we get to truth. There is no need to 'sigh' - talk page is to have a discussion about the article; it is so much easier to destroy than to build, and efficiency and speed and brevity and lukewarm opinions might be how industry creates marketing of products for everyone, but isn't the proper method to discern truth.
Canlawtictoc (talk) 17:11, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Dude, please read up on what linguistic pluricentrism is. Yes, calling four entities varieties of a pluricentric language is tantamount to stating that they all constitute the same language. Standard Serbian and Standard Croatian are not identical, they have their differences, but the English-speaking world considers them to be one language, and the (minor) differences are accounted for by using the term "pluricentric language". American English and British English also have their differences, even when speaking of standard usage. Yes, English is another example of a pluricentric language. There's nothing wrong about this term. 83.23.193.95 (talk) 17:35, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I went to an entire three-day conference on linguistic pluricentrism and pluriareality last February in Münster. Here's the program. It's a serious scientific linguistic thing, not just something from the imagination. --TaivoLinguist (Taivo) (talk) 17:43, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
English is a good example too. I've seen Brits having hissy fits when someone writes something like "neighbor" (without the "U") and Americans calling people illiterate when writing something like "realiSe". Those are different standards and it would be quite inappropriate to call them all identical. --Arny (talk) 13:45, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Semi-protected edit request on 22 January 2020
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1. SERBO-CROATIAN IS NOT AN OFFICIAL LANGUAGE IN BOSNIA
{ec} Not done. Bosnian is one of the national standards (like Croatian and Serbian) of the single language that linguists call "Serbo-Croatian" or, in some works, Bosnian-Croatian-Serbian (BCS). It's a well-documented linguistic fact whether patriots like it or not. --TaivoLinguist (Taivo) (talk) 20:18, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
try a decaf coffee, anon ip - HammerFilmFan
Only four standard varieties?
When people say that BCMS has four standard varieties, they mean that something that could be called ‘ex-Yugoslav BCMS’ comes in Bosnian, Croatian, Montenegrin, and Serbian standard varieties. This is the language form that historically was treated in works with titles like Serbo-Croatian Grammar.
There is no justification for not counting Burgenland Croatian as a separate standard, as it is undoubtedly a codified standard, and as the difference between the Croatian and Burgenland Croatian standards is much greater than the difference between Croatian and Bosnian. Furthermore, Burgenland Croatian already existed as a separate standard back when BCMS was being treated as one language, and grammars of Serbo-Croatian sometimes make mention of this other BCMS variety as a standardised form not treated in the present book. (Adding Burgenland Croatian wouldn't entail having to rename Croatian, as even Burgenland Croats call it that, cf. the dictionary Nimško-gradišćanskohrvatsko-hrvatski rječnik from 1982.) That leaves us with five standards, but the language Molise Slavs learn in school is not one of those standards, and any language that is taught in schools should be considered to qualify as a ‘standard language’.
So as an absolute minimum, we should be talking about six standard languages. There is definitely an argument to be made for distinguishing even more; the difference between Ekavian Serbian and Ijekavian Serbian is greater than between Ijekavian Serbian and Bosnian. But at least there exists a unified Serbian standard that offers the choice between Ekavian and Ijekavian, while there is no unified standard for the language forms spoken by Croats.
I propose that we change the number of standard varieties in the lead from four to at least six and add at least Burgenland Croatian and Molise Slavic to the list. Ryvyly (talk) 20:06, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Vanjagenije (talk) 20:16, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
