Talk:List of music considered the worst

Chinese Democracy by Guns N' Roses

I disagree with the inclusion of this album. Critical reception has been mostly positive. One critic, Stephen Davis considers Chinese Democracy as "the worst album ever" and according to Ayre Dworken the album is "the worst album I have heard in years, if not, in all my life of listening to music.". Two Time Out New York writers named Chinese Democracy as the worst record of 2008, but Hank Shteamer also placed the record on his top 10 list. The rest of the sources aren't negative enough to have much weight.

References

It's Everyday Bro, Every Dani Cohn Song, Pokemon go song & How it is by bibsbeautypalace, Sweatshirt & Everday Saturday?????????

They have to be in the list.

"Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da", The Beatles (1968)

I don't think this meets the inclusion criteria for this article and should be removed. The 2004 Mars poll in which it was voted worst song is only cited second hand through a BBC source and I couldn't find any more info on this poll. I don't see why it should be considered a reliable source in any event - Mars is a candymaking company; they are not in the business of journalism, music criticism, or polling, and we have no idea how the poll was conducted, who was surveyed etc. If, for example, users picked songs from a preselected list then that would present obvious issues as to the reliability of these results. As it is, we don't know enough about this poll to consider it reliable and Mars cannot be presumed to have any credibility in this area. In the other list cited, the song is ranked 48/50, hardly enough to be "considered the worst," and obviously the fact that other members of the Beatles may have disliked the song is not relevant to its inclusion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.76.42.206 (talk) 20:03, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

The BBC is a high level, mainstream, reliable source, they wouldn't dedicate an article to a fake/bogus poll. It's also from 2004 - a time where not everything was always present on the internet. Also keep in mind that Mars is a giant corporation, and there are many different Mars out there - see Mars (disambiguation). Sergecross73 msg me 21:31, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

The worst article on Wikipedia ?

Hi, seriously, this should be deleted, it's not informative, it's biased, useless and so on. Cdrk (talk) 00:54, 1 September 2018 (UTC) cdrk

WP:SOFIXIT. Sergecross73 msg me 00:56, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Sgt Pepper's? Really?

Why would Sgt Pepper's be added to the list? The negative reviews are overshadowed by the positive of the album. If we're going by this case we may as well add Thriller, Dark Side of the Moon and Led Zeppelin IV. Sgt Pepper's should be removed from this list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:387D:3F00:4504:893E:6885:5B7F (talk) 23:01, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

The article is not “music with a general consensus that it was overall bad”. It’s music “considered the worst”. Are there sources that call it the worst or not? Sergecross73 msg me 23:32, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

I completely agree. Everything is considered "the worst" by somebody. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.49.11.210 (talk) 21:37, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

You're arguing for the deletion of this article, then. For now, Sgt. Pepper is a well-referenced addition to it. 2A02:C7F:8EA3:B00:F13B:CC0A:96DE:F504 (talk) 22:23, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Agreed. But Wikipedia generally just covers what reliable sources cover. So we’re only covering professional writers/journalists or polls conducted by reliable sources. So that cuts down on the scope some. Sergecross73 msg me 23:36, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 October 2018

Remove Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band from the top of the list. It is falsely placed there. It is the greatest selling record of all time. 110.149.113.234 (talk) 04:55, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

See section above. It shouldn’t be done yet, it’s actively being discussed and edit-warred over. Sergecross73 msg me 11:20, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

Surely if it's being 'edit-warred' over, that suggests it shouldn't be included in a list like this? There is a substantial section on the albums actual article concerning retrospective reviews and some of the negative opinions of it. Seems very out of place here, especially at the top of the list. Comes across almost as trolling. 86.138.138.195 (talk) 15:11, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

The addition is well-referenced. People are allowed to dislike Beatles albums. 2A02:C7F:8EA3:B00:6D6D:A7EB:4AB0:9A73 (talk) 19:34, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

The album is placed at the top of the list because all of the albums in the section are listed in chronological order. Interlude 65 (Push to talk) 20:53, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Edit requests are for basic, non-contentious changes. If edits are being challenged and discussed, then you need to join the discussion instead, in hopes of finding a consensus for how to move forward. Not “trolling”, just basic protocol. Sergecross73 msg me 22:26, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Is this Uncyclopedia?

Why is Sgt pepper featured in this article? It’s one of the best album of all time lol. Just because a bunch of snobs and second class “music critics” thinks its the worst, it doesn’t mean the album is one of the worst lol. 186.9.52.70 (talk) 23:46, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

See sections above. Sergecross73 msg me 23:48, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

The Firm - Star Trekkin'

One of the most horrid songs ever to be produced. I'm unaible to add any sources myself nor verify any information but I would like to know what you guys (or girls) think about this one. Oxygene7-13 (talk) 15:37, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

I’m not familiar with the song, but without any sources, it definitely needs to stay off the list. The article’s reception section doesn’t make any claims that would warrant putting it on the list either. Sergecross73 msg me 17:31, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

I know Wikipedia can not be used as a source but the article about the song says: British Sunday newspaper The People included it in a list of the most irritating songs in 2005, calling it "Funny, but dreadful. Oxygene7-13 (talk) 17:41, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw that. But that’s not that strong of an argument. It’s one of many irritating songs for just a single year. That hardly calls it one of the worst of all time. Sergecross73 msg me 17:59, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

That's why my question to you lot is: Could someone be so kind to take the effort to find some sources? It just can't be that it does not pop up on some lists of some kind... Oxygene7-13 (talk) 12:16, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 February 2019

ὪἪ Ἣ 2601:989:4200:1049:9DFD:A82F:1934:FA31 (talk) 21:12, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Roadguy2 (talk) 21:30, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Sgt. Pepper (again)

why is this on here? the article says it is for "albums or songs that have been considered the worst music ever made by various combinations of music critics, television broadcasters (such as MTV), radio stations, composers, and public polls", yet its inclusion seems to be based on a dislike of a relatively small number of people: one poll (of an unknown size only open to a select number of groups) and four people. in fact the very first source for the section [1] contradicts its inclusion by noting "The album regularly tops all-time favourite lists..." and "Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band was recently ousted from number one in music author Colin Larkin's survey of fans and critics in his book, the Virgin All Time Top 1000 Albums", while the quoted Richard Smith uses the fact that the album "was often ranked by members of the music press as the best ever" as part of his argument that the album is at the least the most overrated album of all time. Billy Childish, also one of the people quoted, picked Sgt Pepper as the "supposedly great" album he'd never listen to again, but in order for the album to be considered "supposedly great" the general opinion of the album has to be that it's great (and if you go to the source, Childish states Sgt Pepper isn't even the worst Beatles album). if your own sources calling it one of the worst albums ever concede that most people like it, it shouldn't be included because the consensus is that it's not considered one of the worst. i'm sure if you do a google search on The Godfather or Citizen Kane you'd find people out there who think they're the most god awful movies ever made, but they wouldn't be included in Wikipedia's Worst Movie List because the people who like it far outnumber the people who hate it. 2600:1702:1701:1080:84C6:493B:1B57:F1A2 (talk) 09:43, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

The article also notes that Pepper is "often ranked by members of the music press as the best ever". The entry is balanced and well-supported. People seem to be having extreme difficulty with the idea that the Beatles can in fact be criticised. Micky Moats (talk) 17:03, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Criticise is one thing, naming it one of the worst albums ever made, is another. WKMN? Later [ Let's talk ] 17:34, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Browse through past discussions and the talk page archives, this has been discussed at length. If you feel strongly, you may want to write up an WP:RFC or something. Sergecross73 msg me 18:28, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

"Sgt. Pepper's" as one of the worst albums ever

While there are a few sources that say that the album is bad, Sgt. Pepper's is considered by many more to be one of the best albums ever made. So I don't think it qualifies to being here. If a few sources say that the Godfather is bad and overrated, we shouldn't put it here, because a lot more consider it one of the best films ever made. WKMN? Later [ Let's talk ] 17:33, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

RFC for Sgt. Pepper's inclusion

The album Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, by the Beatles, is in this article. According to many Wikipedians, this album should not be included, since it is considered one of the best albums of all time; at the same time, other Wikipedians argue that this album has been named as one of the worst by some sources. Instead of reverting our edits again and again, I propose you answer the question:

"Should the album Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band be included in the article List of music considered the worst?"

With the answer Yes or No, accompanied by your reasons. WKMN? Later [ Let's talk ] 21:25, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

• Yes - While it is true that many sources consider it to be the best/one of the best albums of all time, this article is not "List of the worst music". This is "List of music considered the worst". The album meets the inclusion criteria for this article. - SummerPhD^v2.0 00:15, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
• Yes - It’s positive reception does not negate that multiple reliable source consider it the worst, which is the article’s scope, just as being a commercial success (Nickelback, Vanilla Ice) doesn’t negate it either. This article’s scope is different than “worst ratings on Rotten Tomatoes” or “worst box office bombs” - it’s not a total or aggregate measure, but rather, a documentation of instances when something is considered the worst. Sergecross73 msg me 00:57, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
• No - It is logically impossible for it to simultaneously be generally considered one of the best and one of the worst albums ever. the only way to do so is to state there is no criteria required for inclusion other than someone stating they hate it, which would make this article pointless and in need of deletion as every song and album ever recorded or written should be included because, if you look it up, you'll find someone out there who considers it one of the worst songs/album ever. people are allowed to criticize it, people are allowed to hate it, but one person one time saying something is the worst ever should not be the lone hurdle needed for inclusion, because it is not reflective of the general opinion. if 10 people think its the worst ever while 10,000 people think its the best ever, the consensus is that it is one of the best ever. they might not agree with the consensus, but that is the general opinion of it none the less, and to say their ten thumbs down is equal to everyone else's thumbs up is giving their opinion undue weight. yes this article has "considered" in the title, but so does the similar article List of films considered the worst, and you don't find The Godfather on there even though some people consider it the worst movie ever, because the number of people who think its good far outnumber the number of people who think its bad. yes Vanilla Ice and Nickelback were commercially successful, but past commercial success is not indicative of how people view it years removed from its popularity. Vanilla Ice and Nickelback regularly appear in all-time worst polls, Sgt. Pepper does not. it appeared in one poll that only a select group was allowed to vote in, with (unless someone actually has the magazine and can look it up) no indication of how many people participated nor by what percentage it won by. the lead in the article itself says polls like this are unreliable. most of the entries included in the article are there because they typically are viewed as being one of the worst songs/albums by the public at large, but this is not. it is being included because it is viewed as the worst by an extremely small number of people, which Wikipedia:WEIGHT discourages. Sgt. Pepper should be removed because its continued inclusion gives the false impression that it is viewed far more negatively by the public than it actually is. 108.199.123.95 (talk) 10:19, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Comment - It is entirely logical for one album to be considered one of the best and considered one of the worst albums ever. The album meets this article's inclusion criteria. Why is this album a special case? - SummerPhD^v2.0 19:18, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Really? That's logical for you? Then I will find some sources that say that the Godfather is a bad movie and overrated, and include it in List of films considered the worst. By your logic, it's correct to do so. WKMN? Later [ Let's talk ] 20:09, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

WP:WEIGHT: "If a viewpoint is held by an extremely small minority, it does not belong on Wikipedia, regardless of whether it is true or you can prove it, except perhaps in some ancillary article". if this was "List of controversial polls by Melody Maker" or "List of music Guardians critic Richard Smith hates", its inclusion would be warranted, but five people not liking something is not notable. their opinions do not supersede the rest of the world's. this is not, or rather should not, be a list of opinions, it should be a list of facts. "Sgt. Pepper is one of the greatest albums of all time" is an opinion; "Sgt. Pepper is widely viewed as being one of the greatest albums of all time" is a fact, because it can be supported by wide variety of sources from a large number of groups and individuals. even if its true five people don't like the album, "Sgt. Pepper is viewed by five people to be the worst album ever" is not a notable fact, and its continued inclusion, not exclusion, is making it a special case because, while most of the stuff on here is included because it is widely viewed as being one of the worst songs/albums ever, you are ignoring the fact that Sgt. Pepper is viewed as one of the greatest (the exact opposite of what this list is about) and include it anyway because a very tiny handful of people don't like it. what makes these select people so lauded their views trump the rest of the world? (EDIT: for the record i'm the ip user above, 108.199.123.95) 2600:1702:1701:1080:CD1C:C8F5:A24:BC60 (talk) 20:30, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

• Yes - Deemed one of the worst ever by a number of artists and writers, with reliable sourcing. Acclaim doesn't negate the fact there are people who really don't like it. Micky Moats (talk) 21:43, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
• No - Just because something's considered overrated doesn't mean it's the worst. In fact, it topped Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Albums Of All Time list. It's a great album, is universally praised by critics, and is one of the most influential albums of all time. To consider this among the worst would ruin the validity of this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.192.15.119 (talk) 12:24, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Comment - This article does not say it is the worst. It says it has been considered the worst. (Incidentally, it is not "universally" praised, as evidenced by even one critic not liking it.) - SummerPhD^v2.0 19:14, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Sure, a few people consider it the worst. But there are far more people that consider it the best, something that can't be said about any other album on this list. Not to mention, you admitted that this is the band's highwater mark, so even you admit that many consider this album to be the best. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.192.15.119 (talk) 14:10, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

• comment This may be brigaded- there's a Reddit thread telling people to come and vote no. Just a heads up. -A lad insane (Channel 2) 15:15, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

The title of that thread is "Wikipedians are putting "Sgt. Pepper" in the article "List of music considered the worst". Please vote in this talk page if you feel they should/shouldn't." In no place it says to vote "No", it actually says to come and say something on the matter. WKMN? Later [ Let's talk ] 15:53, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

The thread is in "The Beatles". I rather doubt Beatles fans who are unfamiliar with Wikipedia's policies and procedures are coming here to learn about inclusion criteria and logically assess whether or not their favorite band's highwater mark is considered the worst ever. - SummerPhD^v2.0 19:12, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Good to know that you don't consider their opinions valid. Would you feel safer if the question is in the Music subreddit? WKMN? Later [ Let's talk ] 20:06, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Come on, do you really need an explanation as to how one of the biggest fanbase congregations on the internet are going to react to their favorite band being on a “worst of” list? I refuse to believe anyone is that naive that they don’t see the intended response here. It’s WP:CANVASSing in the spirit, if not the letter, of the rule. Sergecross73 msg me 20:16, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Apologies- I've stricken the offending bit. The fact that it is on a Beatles fan subreddit was what brought me to raise bias concerns. -A lad insane (Channel 2) 19:06, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

• No - Sgt Pepper's is considered one of the greatest albums of all time. The fact that we're even asking this question demonstrates the problem with this article. As I understand it, if there is at least one source that says something is the worse, it merits inclusion in the article, thus potentially treating a WP:FRINGE viewpoint as mainstream. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 15:21, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Comment - If there is a problem with this article, carving out an exception for this one album makes the article worse, not better. If the inclusion criteria or the existence of this article is a problem, this RfC isn't designed to address that. - SummerPhD^v2.0 19:22, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

I disagree. Removing an album that doesn't belong makes it better, not worse. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 20:06, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

• Comment - Strange how two IPs have wandered into this new discussion to vote no. Spotting fresh talk page activity is watchlist material. Micky Moats (talk) 18:24, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

• That's an ironic complaint given your account is only two weeks old. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 19:21, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

• Im sure this RFC is destined to be a mess now, with the canvassing, and will require an expert closer to review all this. And I’m sure they’ll know to weigh all the suspicious participants accordingly. So it’s likely not worth arguing over here. Sergecross73 msg me 20:19, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
• Key word: account. Micky Moats (talk) 22:45, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

• Yes per SummerPhD. The belief that Peppers has been considered the worst in some polls is well-documented. Ilovetopaint (talk) 23:47, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
• No Firstly, I don't think 'list of music considered the worst (by at least four sources)' is encyclopedic. In some cases this criterion gives undue weight to the views of a very small minority of reviewers, given the massive number of sources evaluating certain pieces of music. I stumbled across this article expecting it to be synonymous with 'list of music notable for negative reception', and think perhaps a move to that title would be beneficial.

Secondly, the sources provided for Sgt. Pepper are in any case rather weak. Billy Childish does not state that he considers the album amongst the worst ever. Whereas most criticism in the article concerns music being of low quality and unpleasant to listen to, I interpret Bill Drummond's quote to be about the influence that the album had on music that was subsequently created; it's unclear whether he considers Sgt. Pepper amongst the worst music in the other sense. Richard Smith's article is a blog post, which seems less notable than an official Guardian review, and he stops short of clearly stating he considers Sgt. Pepper to be amongst the worst of all time. 91.84.66.228 (talk) 11:20, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

• Yes - I found this discussion via the plea on the Beatles' Reddit, as the other unregistered users clearly did (72.192.15.119 is obviously a big Beatles fan). I came here thinking that Sgt. Pepper was being subjected to baseless slander, however the sources seem quite reputable. On top of that, the lead section makes clear that the article isn't definitive, and even relies on humourous pieces. The album is enshrined as a classic, but clearly has its detractors and us fans should probably learn not to take criticism of the Fabs so seriously. 82.132.218.91 (talk) 11:37, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

Comment - FWIW I came across this article after googling "list of bad ideas wikipedia". I went to the talk page expecting to see complaints about Sgt. Pepper appearing on this list (amongst a grand total of 15 albums), and that is what I found. Sgt. Pepper's detractors are given appropriate coverage in the main article on that album. If we're talking about humour and a judicious choice of material where it's difficult to include everything, surely people are more enthused to discover what they may see as obscure peculiarities (e.g. the Lou Reed and Bee Gees entries), than be told about some contrarian poll result (also featuring OK Computer plus 10 or more ordinary well-liked albums). It's the combination of this edit being both leaden, unencyclopedic _and_ vigorously defended by editors that annoyed me enough to comment in the RFC. Otherwise I couldn't care less how many people like or dislike this piece of music. 91.84.66.228 (talk) 21:12, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

• Yes - I’m a Beatles fan but familiar to suggestions of Pepper being vastly overrated with some of the worst songs the Beatles have written. Aside from “She’s Leaving Home” and “A Day in the Life”, the rest of the album is average at best and at worst, total shite. Just sayin’Noelrock (talk) 12:09, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

• Yes – As pointed out above it's not logically inconsistent for something to have been considered the best and worst of something at the same time. This situation is actually so common that there's even a word for it, depending on the timing of reactions, which is "backlash"—which seems to be the phenomenon documented in the sources in question. The fact that this backlash is contrary to the dominant narrative does not make it contrarian (in the sense of "playing devil's advocate" or expressing an insincere belief for the purpose of trolling). These critics and musicians are expressing a sincerely held belief that Sgt. Pepper's is actually terrible. Each of the sources is germane, they all are saying the album is "the worst" in a particular way. Attempts to interpret the sources otherwise are hair-splitting. For instance, the assertion that Drummond's comment could be read as a criticism of the album's cultural influence, rather the music itself, is—in addition to attempting to read Drummond's mind—merely pointing out another dimension of aesthetic judgment of music. By analogy, someone could say that C major is "the worst" key signature because of its overuse and banality; that person doesn't have to mean that C major is literally discordant or atonal on a musical level, because their comment is still recognizable as a sincere judgment that C major is "the worst". (I put aside any aside my personal aesthetic judgments about Sgt. Pepper's in these remarks, as everyone should be doing, but for full transparency: I love the Beatles, I enjoy Sgt. P's but I'd rank it a tier below Revolver, The Beatles, Abbey Road, probably Rubber Soul, maybe even Magical Mystery Tour depending which day of the week you ask me.) —BLZ · talk 18:19, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

Comment. No one is denying there are individuals out there that sincerely hate Sgt Pepper, or that there are pockets of people out there who consider it to be the worst. what people are arguing is that a tiny handful of people considering something to be the worst is not notable, because everything is considered the worst by someone. this should be a list of songs/albums that are generally considered the "worst" because it is the view held by a significant number of people. 10 people calling something the worst is not notable; 100,000 people calling something the worst is. and if something is generally considered one of the best, it cannot also be generally considered one of the worst, because the majority opinion can only be on one side. even if the opinions were evenly split, they would cancel each other out and push for the album not to be included. if half the people like it and half the people hate it, the response would be "mixed" and not considered one of the "best" or "worst". but that is not the case here as far more people consider Sgt Pepper to be one of the best albums of all time than one of the worst (a fact most of the sources listed point out).

also scrutinizing sources is not splitting hairs, because not all of them belong, specifically (as pointed out by 91.84.66.228) Billy Childish. in that source [2], what exactly does he say? he says Sgt. Pepper is a "supposedly great album he'd gladly never listed to again". that's not the same as calling it one of the worst albums ever in the history of music ("Boyhood" is a supposedly great movie i'd gladly never watch again, but i don't consider it the worst movie ever made). he calls it "the worst Beatles album up to that point", which again is not the same as calling it one of the worst albums ever in the history of music. he then follows up his "worst up to that point" comment by stating "Live at the Star Club trounces it with ease", so he doesn't even consider Sgt Pepper to be the worst Beatles album of all time. if he doesn't even consider Sgt Pepper to be the worst Beatles album of all time, how can he consider Sgt Pepper to be the worst album of all time? he can't because he doesn't, and the source is being misconstrued to make it fit the article. as for Drummond, if his quote (which is somewhat vague) is open to interpretation, more information is needed from the source to give it some context. at least for Richard Smith and Childish reasons are given why they view it as overrated/something he would never listen to again. for Drummond, it seems its included simply because it had the words "Sgt Pepper" and "worst" in the same sentence. (this is ip 108.199.123.95) 108.199.123.95 (talk) 21:29, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

• Yes - a necessary function of Wikipedia's encyclopoedic neutrality is to register a plurality of (authoratative) critical opinion, including those dissenting from the conventional or majority view. If this applies to individual works (where a work can simultaneously and without contradiction be "the most important expression which the present age has found", "heap of dung" and "catastrophe"), it ought to apply equally to a page which indexes critical opinion. That is, if the dissenting view is worth noting, proportionately, which I believe on balance this is. I happen incidentally to like this album very much. --Tosk Albanian (talk) 11:23, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Comment - Dissenting views are certainly worth noting on the article's main page. I just think that "considered the worst" implies extra criteria apart from four sources, or indeed one source plus three weaker supporting sources, offering that opinion. I.e., if there are more notable sources such as Rolling Stone with a diametrically opposed opinion, plus mostly or all very positive reviews in Wikipedia's infobox, "considered the worst" seems contrary to a normal understanding of that phrase. There is nothing to preclude an album dividing opinion so much that it is widely and notably considered both amongst the best and amongst the worst, but Sgt. Pepper is not such an album. There is a difference between sources being used to cite a fact--four sources is usually more than necessary--versus to support how representative a critical opinion may be. I note that the similar article on video games is titled "List of video games notable for negative reception", possibly to address this kind of problem. Also, the generous interpretation that is "has sources, period", implying a _long_ list including Sgt. Pepper, would be more defensible if more than 15 albums were listed. (Same user as 91.84.66.228 above). Glumblebee (talk) 15:00, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

• No. (Answering my own question.) The albums listed in this article all have negative reception, and correctly appear in an article called "List of music considered the worst". Sgt. Pepper's, however, was noted to have received overwhelming praise. The fact that Sgt. Pepper's is in this list makes it appear as it had the same kind of reception.

Having Fun with Elvis on Stage

Review scores
Source	Rating
AllMusic
MusicHound

Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (soundtrack)

Review scores
Source	Rating
AllMusic
Encyclopedia of Popular Music
The Rolling Stone Record Guide
The Village Voice	D+

Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band

Review scores
Source	Rating
AllMusic
The A.V. Club	B+
The Daily Telegraph
Encyclopedia of Popular Music
MusicHound Rock	5/5
Paste	89/100
Pitchfork	10/10
The Rolling Stone Album Guide
Sputnikmusic	5/5
The Village Voice	A

For example, let's look at two albums of this article. First, Having Fun with Elvis on Stage, has the next reception box in its article page (seen at the right).

Another example, Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (soundtrack):

Both albums are fairly listed in this page, then. Compare that to Sgt. Pepper's reception.

An album with that kind of reception is opposed to appear in an article called List of music considered the worst. It's against WP:BIAS and WP:WEIGHT. WKMN? Later [ Let's talk ] 17:57, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Comment I'm afraid using infoboxes to sway opinion is not going to change consensus here. Note that nine of ten of the "retrospective reviews" are, with exception to Christgau, printed post-1998. Just take a look at Stone Roses, perfect infobox, but a paragraph of scathing criticism by some well-respected contributors. We need to consider WP:MINORITY. It is well-known that contemporary critic Richard Goldstein was very scathing in his criticism of Pepper. And that was strongly supported by Lester Bangs in 1981. "As a near-lone voice of dissent, Goldstein was widely castigated for his views." It is only the writers who are willing to stick their neck out and hold to their principles of quality music who are going to give a true appraisal of a record. As Brett Anderson said to Melody Maker in 1997: "I completely lost respect for the music business. I began to see it in its true colours, a gang of sheep who were too afraid to contradict popular opinion." They say nobody is above the law. Likewise no artist is immune to severe criticism. Yup, even the Beatles.Noelrock (talk) 18:54, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Comment here's the problem with Richard Goldstein and WP:MINORITY: yes Richard Goldstein wrote a very scathing review of Sgt Pepper, yes he and his review of Sgt Pepper was and is extremely noteworthy, but at no point did he declare Sgt Pepper to be the worst album ever, which is the sole basis of this article and apparently the lone criteria needed for inclusion. as for MINORITY, remember WP:WEIGHT:

"If a viewpoint is held by a significant minority, then it should be easy to name prominent adherents;

If a viewpoint is held by an extremely small minority, it does not belong on Wikipedia, regardless of whether it is true or you can prove it, except perhaps in some ancillary article."

"People who didn't like Sgt Pepper" would be a significant minority, which is why not only is Goldstein's review covered in detail in the appropriate section of the Sgt Pepper's page, but reviews of his review are also covered. "People who think Sgt Pepper is the worst album ever" is an extremely small minority, and why it Sgt Pepper shouldn't be included in this list, because it gives the false impression the critical views of it are far more negative than they are, and thus this tiny group's opinion more weight than the rest of the world's. 108.199.123.95 (talk) 19:57, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Comment I observe that the Stone Roses' album does not however appear in the list we are discussing. Richard Goldstein says near the end of his review, "What a shame that “A Day in the Life” is only a coda to an otherwise undistinguished collection of work"--a far cry from calling Sgt. Pepper one of the worst albums ever. Regarding the Melody Maker poll, one interpretation is that the editors and voters were unusually willing to stick their necks out by naming a bunch of mostly well-received albums, but another is that they (or in particular the editors) were seeking attention and being provocative, as far as criticism of popular music permits. That's not unlikely for an entertainment magazine that suffered declining sales and was in its final years. Glumblebee (talk) 20:42, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Comment Very true. Yes, The Stone Roses does not appear in this list. The problem with Pepper, and the controversy which plagues it, is the fact that is it overrated. Because it is so vastly overrated, it unfortunately falls victim to being placed in a list of worst ever albums. If an album is so overrated in popular culture, then it cannot escape harsh criticism, even if that means calling it one of the worst albums of all time. Look, there are many albums that could also be added to this list, The Boy with the X-Ray Eyes by Babylon Zoo for example. How about Planet Jedward. There are many more I could add. The fact is Pepper, whether you like it or not, topped a Melody Maker poll of worst albums and also has a reputation as being a controversial topic among the rock establishment. The Stone Roses is overrated in my opinion, despite placing at no. 498 on Rolling Stones 500 Greatest Albums of All Time list. The problem with Pepper is that the same publication decided to place it at no. 1 despite it being mediocre compared to other great rock albums. Is that because the Oxford Encyclopedia of British Literature described it as "the most important and influential rock-and-roll album ever recorded." It's possible. The fact is though, 99.9% of the population couldn't care less about "importance" or "cultural significance". The average Joe who listens to a record, cares mostly about hooks. And it is hooks that Pepper fails to deliver.Noelrock (talk) 21:30, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Comment I agree that there are lots of other albums that could be added to this list, and if there were at least 50 albums mentioned then Sgt. Pepper's inclusion would be less annoying to me, because it would be less prominent and might be accompanied by other more-often celebrated works. You may be right that Sgt. Pepper appeals less to the average listener than some others that are considered amongst the best by critics. However on a similar note, what some of us are arguing is that "considered the worst (by a few approved critical voices, most notably one poll)" is not the sense in which the average Joe would interpret the comment, "Sgt. Pepper, isn't that considered one of the worst albums ever?" In the case of this non-technical subject I think the interpretation of average Joe is pertinent. I also agree that Sgt. Pepper would be more at home in a list of music considered overrated. Although critical interpretation of sources is not encouraged on Wikipedia, I like to think that most people can look at the Melody Maker poll and personally agree that, leaving aside Sgt. Pepper, they decided to pick on music that could be seen as either middle-of-the-road, overblown and overrated more so than especially tasteless, painful to listen to or incompetently written and performed. Their finding Pictures at an Exhibition by ELP--an example of pretentious and onanistic prog rock to some, but liked by most fans and not critically panned--to be worse than Love Beach by the same band, which is widely considered plain awful and disliked by the band themselves, is illustrative of that different sense of "worst albums". Glumblebee (talk) 22:26, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Yes - An album can be simultaneously praised and condemned. One side will weigh heavier than the other, of course, but the article isn't about that. If an album has been referred to as the worst by a combination of reliable sources, then it goes here. 2A02:C7F:8E93:DF00:857B:F747:3D05:225 (talk) 22:47, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

• Question/Comment Can anyone point to a list of worst music published by a reliable source where Sgt Pepper is listed? If Wikipedia is the only one who's listing Sgt Pepper, then is it a case of original research? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 11:19, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
  • WP:DROPTHESTICK. Micky Moats (talk) 14:16, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
    • That's not a helpful answer. Try again. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 16:24, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Does this article pass WP:LISTN?

I can't help but wonder whether this topic passes WP:LISTN. According to WP:LISTN, a list article "is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources."(emphasis mine). Are there reliable sources which have published similar lists of worst music? And are there enough of such lists to establish notability? If not, should the article be deleted? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 12:31, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Dude, some people don't like Sgt. Pepper. WP:DROPTHESTICK. Micky Moats (talk) 13:13, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

You comment in every opportunity to mention Sgt. Pepper, and how it should be in this list. This is not to be followed as WP:BIAS. If you have a problem with the album or the band, it should not be reflected in this article. The fact that the album remains in this article baffles me. WP:WEIGHT is enough to prove that the album shouldn't be included. Because of this, this acts as a precedent for Wikipedia, and anyone could add anything to any article, with low quality sources. WKMN? Later [ Let's talk ] 17:39, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

OK, again, I'm asking if it follows WP:LISTN and this can be demonstrated by citing reliable sources which also publish lists of worst music. So far, all I'm getting is crickets. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 21:31, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Trying doing the smallest bit of research yourself then. The top of this very talk page you’re already on shows that this article has survived 6 AFD discussions, including an extensive one this year. Please don’t go the same route so many other misguided editors do when they get upset about an entry being on the list and decide to try to blow the entire list instead. Sergecross73 msg me 17:54, 19 March 2019 (UTC)