Talk:Munich Agreement

IP edit

Dear IP,

please understand the corresponding section in the lead is about the time of the creation Czechoslovakia, hence a newly created state cannot be liberated if it did not exist before.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:23, 9 March 2020 (UTC))

Happily, a Czech state did exist before.
The Czech state was formerd in the 9th. century under the Great Moravian Empire and is one of the oldest states in Central Europe.
The Czech Kingdom of Bohemia and Margraviate of Moravia were historical lands (Crown of Saint Vaclav), they existed with strong kings of House of Premyslid.
As a kingdom she antendates the Germans Kingdoms, not excepting Saxony, Bavaria and Prussia.
Sudeten Germans arrived to the Czech lands in every century, including many since 1850. They have known very well where they settled from the very beginning. Posp68 (talk) 09:08, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

I don't what this has to do with the issue.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:01, 11 March 2020 (UTC))

It's very easy. Czech and Slovaks lands were liberated on the ground of historical rights. On 10 January 1917 the Allies stated their war aims publicly. The statement included as one of their aims "the liberation of Italians, of Slavs, of Roumanians and of Czechoslovaks from foreign domination". Posp68 (talk) 07:13, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Sorry,

this is POV and OR, since Czechoslovakia included large Hungarian lands, as well Ruthenian lands, similarly the Allied viewpoint is just one point of view, considering "foreign" domination is as well controversial, while a Czechoslovak nation did not even exist, etc., on the other hand historical rights of other nations living there have been completely ignored. No consensus for such type of additions.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:49, 11 March 2020 (UTC))

Sudeten Germans were a minority - not a nation and most countries in Europe have minorities.
Slovakia is not Hungary and Ruthenia joined voluntarily.
The Allies stated their war aims publicly. The statement included as one of their aims "the liberation of Italiens, of Slavs, of Roumanians and of Czechoslovaks from foreign domination".
This Allied sitation based on source can never be POV and OR.
NPOV rules require all major viewpoints and this certainly qualifies.
It was the viewpoint of the Allies and is consequently far more important than your personal opinion view or POV.
--Posp68 (talk) 12:42, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Your first sentence is incorrect, as it implies being a minority would not have a national affilitaion...Sudeten Germans were Germans, which are a nation, similarly the fact there are minorities in Europe does not change anything on the validity of the issues I pinpointed.

The territory of present-day Slovakia was part of Hungary and was a historic Hungarian territory as well, Ruthenian's voluntary join was filled with the circumstances of the really arguable and controversial contract(s) carried out with American subjects, or the fact other aspiration were not confirmed by the Allies, so they had in reality no other choice, but a dictated/controlled one.

I don't see why you found necessary to repeat the allied aim, and what would change in the situation if it is public or not. But yes, the Allied aim in war conditions are anyway may be treated as a point of interest, having a source for this does not mean it could not be POV, it is heavily that (to say nothing of war are largely served by any means ideologies aims that may be one-sided or subjective), you are confusing here the things. OR is what you did.

As well per NPOV rules we should remain neutral, that means we neutrally word our sentences, not by just one point of view, or not any point of view which does not share consensus.

Thank you for reinforcing it is the viewpoint of the Allies; on the other hand I don't know why you mention the possible importance of my personal opinion or POV, since it was not the subject of the discussion.(KIENGIR (talk) 03:20, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Liberation of Czechoslovakia from foreign domination was one of the Allies aims. Yes or No? Only Yes or No, please.
Does Kingir erase this Allied aim because it anoys him?
--Posp68 (talk) 13:07, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, Liberation of Czechoslovakia... could not be an Allied aim, since Czechoslovakia came into existence only later...henceforth, I could not erase something that did not exist...(KIENGIR (talk) 22:04, 14 March 2020 (UTC))

Dear Kingier, On 10 January 1917 the Allied stated their war aims publicly. The statement included as one of their aims: "the liberation of Italians, of Slavs, of Roumanians and of Czehoslovaks from foreign domination".
Reference: Czechoslovakia Crossroad and Crises, Norman Stone, isbn 978-1-349-10646-2, page 67.
Vienna became frantic after the issuance of the Allied statement of war aims which would dissolve the Habsburg empire into its original parts.
The Czechs already had their own lands and Slovaks were not Hungarians from Asia.--Posp68 (talk) 21:43, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Dear Posp68,

why do you think it is necessary to repeat something the third time, when we already discussed this? Who said Slovaks would be Hungarians from Asia? Please mind that WP is not a forum...(KIENGIR (talk) 16:35, 29 March 2020 (UTC))

Funny when Slavic speaking people call Hungarians as "Asians" despite they have higher ratio of mongoloid (Asian) genetic admixture than Hungarians. (Just see Y DNA and autosomal researches)--Liltender (talk) 17:03, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm from Norway. Hungarians are from Asia. Genetically, there is no big difference between Czechs and Germans.--Posp68 (talk) 19:07, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

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