User talk:Coffeepusher

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Once in a while I get logged out without realising it, so that is my normal IP address.

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Welcome!

Hello, Coffeepusher, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! 

Public Sphere

Cirt, I am asking you and another editor to look at a project I am working on, and tell me if it makes sence so far.

I have been editing the Public Sphere for a little while now, and it is heading into a direction that I am happy with, I am about half way through with what I want to do. My problem is that it is a highly specialised page, and that I seem to be the only one editing it (outside of typo correction). It reads well for me, but then again I know the topic matter.

I was wondering if you would be able to look at what I have so far (through the Counterpublic section) and tell me if it makes sence. I am looking for someone who has no experience with public sphere theory, because if the page sounds like gobily gook to them...its a poorly writen page. if you have the time, look it over and tell me what makes sence, and what questions you have about public sphere theory. this would greatly help me in my future edits to the page. Coffeepusher (talk) 19:56, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I'll take a read-through, message me if I don't get to it in a coupla days. Cirt (talk) 20:56, 9 January 2008 (UTC).

• Sorry I haven't gotten to this yet, I'll try to take a look soon. Cirt (talk) 11:24, 11 January 2009 (UTC).

Newspeak

hay, I found the article and you sudjested that the bottom section should be deleted. However it appears that you didn't delete it. I came to the same conclusion that you did in reading the article, and was going to go ahead but I thought it would be prudent to ask you why you didn't delete it just in case there was somthing worth wile that changed your mind (or you did and got met with great edit wars). Coffeepusher (talk) 06:18, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

No, I simply forgot it... it has been done now. Probably, somebody will be discontent with this. Let's wait and see. -- 790 (talk) 20:40, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, I have waited almost a month...and no revert wars. Thank you for cleaning that up, it looks alot better. I also like your comment on the talk page, your explination was much better than the one I would have used. Coffeepusher (talk) 23:57, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Scientology membership

Thanks for the correction. In re reading my addition it did appear misleading as to the source. I have redone the sentance, and believe it accuratly demonstrates what was said in the interview.Coffeepusher (talk) 20:38, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I thought the cite could be salvaged, but wasn't comfortable the previous wording. AndroidCat (talk) 20:56, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Angry Ufologist

I find it insulting that someone who couldn't out-spell a first grader feels that they have the authority to dictate who gets to be listed as a famous ufologist. I'm a doctor for Christ's sake! What are you? Some hack editor with a god complex? Get over yourself and stop sticking your greasy little fingers where they don't belong! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.61.99.47 (talk) 08:59, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

for starters I am someone who knows what an ad-honimin falicy in logic is "Couldn't out spell a first grader"...yah Ive heard that one. Next "has watched every episode of X-files and considers David to be super dreamy" hardly qualifys as a ufologist. Finaly both of your "Dr's" (I am assuming one is you) where born in 1984&1986...unless they started college at 16, they arn't Dr's...Its possable, but I Highly doupt it. Either your edit was a hoax...or you need to better understand what we are doing here on wikipedia.Coffeepusher (talk) 17:50, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

hummmm....According to facebook you both are undergraduates...Well one of you was supposed to graduate at least. Natasha L. Rodriguez '08 and Matthew Carroll '07 Kent state.Coffeepusher (talk) 20:36, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

List of UFOlogists

Hello. Recently you removed two names that I added to the List of Ufologists, Dan Akroyd & David Sereda. Both are UFOlogists. Why were they removed from that list? Nhl4hamilton (talk) 07:54, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

The reason I removed those links was the referance was an advertisement for the video interview and thus was WP:SPAM. beeing an advertisement it also didn't qualify for a reliable source, and seemed to be riding on the fact that a celeberaty was interested in UFO's rather than the information he was presenting. additionaly I havn't found anything about the reserch he is doing, studies he is participating in, or what his area of specialty is. He just appears to be a celeberaty spokesman. those where the reasons for its removalCoffeepusher (talk) 17:34, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

• OK Thanks for the explanation.  Nhl4hamilton | Chit-Chat  23:17, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Hay, thank you for adding all those citations and improving the article significantly.Coffeepusher (talk) 07:29, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Your welcome. I still have a few more to do in the United States section. Should be done sometime this week.  Nhl4hamilton | Chit-Chat  09:14, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Alcoholics Anonymous

I also recently edited the Alcoholics Anonymous site and received a welcome message from you indicating that my content was not neutral. My contribution was an assignment for an e-communities course where we were assigned readings on how to cite on Wikipedia properly. I am confused by your choice to undo the edit. I have worked in the addiction research field for over seven years and have a significant amount of expertise about AA. For the purposes of the class, we were asked to follow up when our entries were undone. Could you provide more clarification on your definition of "neutrality". Thank you for the welcome and thanks in advance for your insight.Lmclaug (talk) 19:27, 13 February 2008 (UTC)lmclaug

Thank you for contacting me, your class sounds great I wish I could take it. I want to start out with saying that I agree with the information you presented and it was cited accuratly and it was correct. You can quote me to your prof in that you did your research.

However you chose one of the most contriversial articles in wikipeida to edit I have ever seen (and I edit scientology articles, if that gives you any idea of its contriversy). Normaly your edits would have probably stood, but in highly contested artcles things are much more likely to be reverted. Every part of the AA page has been under great scrutiny, check out the archive section of the discussion page to see how heated it can get.

The reason it wasn't NPOV was that it came from the primary source and was placed in such a way as to counter other infomation. Secondary sources are prefered. and the placement of a counterargument can unballance the article...I am not shure if this makes sence.

we have sources that talk about AA and court mandated attendance, suddenly we add another source that dosn't directly mention mandated attendance but does attempt to discredit the first source, now what we have is a section that uses WP:SYNTH in order to foward an argument.

I don't think I am getting my point across well, however it is a start. please post any other questions on my talk page (I am moving your comment to the bottom of the page, so it is in order) and I hope to be of service.Coffeepusher (talk) 19:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Cult

I added the text you asked for on the talk page. personaly I believe it would realy help drive home the point that what makes a cult a "Cult" is hard to interperate, however I will leave it up to you on what infromation to add, and how to add the information.Coffeepusher (talk) 22:06, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

your edit to the talk page

Hay, this is to let you know that I reincerted your statement onto the anonymous (group) Talk page. usually we don't delete comments from talk pages (except in the case of vandalism or outright abserdaty like the "is bin ladan a scientologists?" comment that was removed yesterday from the scientology page...no he is a muslem...duh!) I appreciate the fact that you only removed your own comment, which shows great understanding on what the effects of removing anothers comment may be. Unfortunatly it caused the entire section afterwards to be incoherant...having no basis on which to found it on. If you would like to "delete" your comment, or otherwise show everyone that you want to change some sections of it, feel free to strike the comment with a line through. I am actually unfamiliar on how to do this...since I havn't ever done it, however it is in the "how to edit" section above and I have seen many comments that have encorperated this tactic. again, I appologise for undoing your edit...I hope you appreciate why I did it and understand that I really want you to feel welcomed at wikipedia...(especially after that very vvveeerrryy civil comment left on a vandals talk page...I laughed a lot, and it shows a good understanding of how to do things here on wikipedia)Coffeepusher (talk) 20:34, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Coffeepusher- thank you so much for your message to me on my talk page. I knew I shouldn't have been deleting my posts but they came back to haunt me on IRC. I really appreciate your encouraging words and advice. I didn't get a the oppotunity to read your whole user talk page but I saw that your g/f likes SMASHING PUMPKINS. Fuckin' kewl, dude! You gots a good lady, then.

And even though I may be a newbie at editing I have used this Wikipedia as my go-to source for info for almost 2 years running. I as wrong in some of my facts on the anonymous page and it was embaressing, believe me. But thanx ya much for your kind wordz when I was gettin' flamed. It meant a lot to me. See ya 'round, homeboy.

Oh, by the way, that last post was by me, Floridanon (talk) 11:47, 22 February 2008 (UTC)floridanon. sorry I'm still working out the kinks in my game.

Don't worry about making a mistake about when "Anonymous" was formed and why. I myself was unaware of its existance untill people started talking about it on the talk:Scientology page (which I monitor)...and if it wasn't for wikipedia (and this guy I work with) I wouldn't know anything outside of the Scientology part. be bold (using reliable sources of cource)...and don't limit yourself to the Anonymous article...There are millions of articles that need help, find somthing that interests you and start editing. good luck (and keep your cool like you always have, it pays dividends here)Coffeepusher (talk) 07:29, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Newspeak

hay, I found the article and you sudjested that the bottom section should be deleted. However it appears that you didn't delete it. I came to the same conclusion that you did in reading the article, and was going to go ahead but I thought it would be prudent to ask you why you didn't delete it just in case there was somthing worth wile that changed your mind (or you did and got met with great edit wars). Coffeepusher (talk) 06:18, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

No, I simply forgot it... it has been done now. Probably, somebody will be discontent with this. Let's wait and see. -- 790 (talk) 20:40, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, I have waited almost a month...and no revert wars. Thank you for cleaning that up, it looks alot better. I also like your comment on the talk page, your explination was much better than the one I would have used. Coffeepusher (talk) 23:58, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

IP

Will, I saw that you placed a level 3 warning on a IP talk page...although he did have a level 2 already, it was for obvious vanalism...I know, I placed it, I am questioning the placement of a level 3 for somthing that appears to be a good faith newbee edit (although pov definatly). what I am trying to say is it looks like you WP:BITE him.Coffeepusher (talk) 20:47, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't know which IP you're on about. Care to elaborate? Will ^(talk) 20:48, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

It was User talk:71.163.67.110, sorry for not including that information.Coffeepusher (talk) 20:54, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

That revert must've been either:

1. A mistake, or;
2. Someone reverted an edit he did to that page and warned him. I normally revert if that happens.

Thanks. Will ^(talk) 20:58, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

...um...I can't make any sence out of that statement. the ip made what appeared to be a WP:GF edit, you reverted his edit, and then you placed a level three warning to his talk page which I thought was severe and questioned you about it. your responce dosn't adress any of those points that I can see.Coffeepusher (talk) 21:04, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

You placed a level 2 warning on his talk page. I then reverted his edit, and the software I was using gave it a level 3. Warnings stack - there's no point in multiple level 2 warnings. Will ^(talk) 21:07, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

ooh! now your statement makes sence. I will ask if you think what he did realy constitutes vandalism? personaly I think you should remove the template since it was placed by your bot, but that is only my interpritation of the situation. the problem is that the damage has probably already been done. Coffeepusher (talk) 21:12, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

You're overstating the impact of the revert. But sure, it's not a bad edit, I'll revert my warning. Will ^(talk) 21:18, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of The Scientology Handbook

An article that you have been involved in editing, The Scientology Handbook, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Scientology Handbook. Thank you. Coffeepusher (talk) 00:20, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Lol, I was like "wtf? I never edited that article," and then I realized that I removed a backlink. :P Cheers :P --slakr^\ talk / 01:30, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about that, it was a scientology article, so I was doing my best to follow every letter of the law (notify all contibuters). You where actually one of the few, so I just went down the list without looking at what you actually did.Coffeepusher (talk) 22:19, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Justanother

Regarding this edit, he seems to have been saying he scrambled his password to try to enforce a wikibreak. Please advise: is there some way to tone down and normalize this situation? Durova^Charge! 21:45, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate your contacting me. I was unaware that he scrambled his pasword (and am still a little confused about the logic in such an action). Justahulk as I knew him was a rather contriversial individual (he had a reputation in the Scientology section...I am shure I do as well come to think of it), who although him and I had more conflicts than agrements, we had more in common than he realised and I just want to look out for him while he is gone. I assure you that I am just trying to keep his page from beeing vanalised. Given this new information, I am not shure what to do. What would you advise?Coffeepusher (talk) 23:20, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

never mind, evidently he left an e-mail, so I will contact him there if I have questions about future edits.Coffeepusher (talk) 23:22, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

OK and thanks. Not sure what to do here. Durova^Charge! 23:25, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

ok, what situation are you refuring to?...what are you not shure what to do about?Coffeepusher (talk) 23:29, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, he's pegged me as an opponent. A couple of days ago I found myself reverting an invitation to join a featured list drive when he asked me to stop posting to his user talk. Can't reach him. Wish I could. Durova^Charge! 23:31, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Wow! well I read all that on his page...initialy I ignored it because it is quite lengthy. He even mentioned me! Ok, it was brief, however I do like seeing my name in print. What I can say is in my experience he has a set style (we all do, if I had any sock pupet accounts they would easily be taged for mispellings) usualy he attacks what I will call the "wiki charicter" of his opponents which will suck them into a socratic defence dialectic where he gets to controll the direction of the conversation. This would work best in person but electronicly it has less success for reasons I don't care to get into. "new admin" falls right within this style. Our first confrontation had him calling me ignorant in an off handed way by quoting the no revert rule, and asking me to consider it. However when I made it clear that I was willing to work with him on the talk page it calmed things down. since then we have had many disagreements, however it hasn't blown up into anything big. unless you have experienced any additional harrasment, I would say that he has calmed down from the blocking (I have seen him throw that tantrum before about Cirt, and I think you where just an afterthought). Does this help?Coffeepusher (talk) 00:09, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) Well this goes back nearly a year. I make no claim to expertise about Scientology, other than to say they're a newish religion with an image problem, but I do know a lot about conflict of interest issues as they relate to Wikipedia. I saw some very short-sighted activity by pro-Scientology editors that was placing them at risk for a serious PR backlash. I tried to communicate this to them in a number of different ways, and wound up taking the matter to arbitration. The case went very slowly and before it ended the WikiScanner came out...and along with it exactly the type of headlines I had feared would happen. Unfortunately, he and the other Scientologist (or pro-Scientologist) editors seem to have perceived only that I was some jerk who was telling them no. With a situation as polarized as that I can understand how that kind of trench warfare perspective sets in. I just wish I could break through it, and apparently I can't. Real world disputes that leak onto Wikipedia are very hard to address. Durova^Charge! 00:16, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

if you check my talk page archives, you already know that I cut my wiki teeth on the Alcoholics Anonymous article...so I understand (it is by far one of the most contriversial talk page in history that I have seen). I will give this a think, because you are adressing some problems that I have experienced as well, and I want to come back with a well thought out answer. thank you for contacting meCoffeepusher (talk) 00:26, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Heh...I cut my teeth on Joan of Arc. And as incredible as it may seem for a woman who'd been dead for 600 years, the page was being owned by two trolls. Took me half a year to raise it to featured. A lot of my work since then has been built around the idea that I didn't want other volunteers to go through the same problems I endured. Tough stuff, and guaranteed to make me unpopular in some quarters. But I follow my heart and my conscience. Best regards, Durova^Charge! 00:33, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

You know, I had this long elegant reply, but I realized that the only one who would get something out of it was me. I will say that based on your experience, I don’t think I am going to enlighten you…however I will try and give you my interpretation of a solution. If you are trying to break through to Hulk…well all I can say is play by the rules (you do, that just happens to be my only advise). Editors who have an agenda usually at least respect rules (if not try and find many many loopholes) because if they don’t they will get booted and the agenda is lost. If he has picked you as an opponent…well based on his debate style I would say let him know that this isn’t about him or his or your agenda…its about the rules. In this tactic it restricts the conversation to a tangible ruling body of order that is accessible to all. And don’t get caught up in the defensive dialectic. This will allow them to steer the debate away from the topic at hand.

As for how to break through the trenches…I don’t think I do that too well. Using the tactic described above I have kept a fairly NPOV in my writing. I rely heavily on consensus in talk pages to keep from getting into a one on one debate (in hulks case we brought 3 discussions to talk pages and agreed not to touch the edits…come to think of it, he “won” 2 of those…nutz). These are things I learned on the AA page…after messing up a lot, and they tend to work for me.

although this is my experience, I would like to hear your response. It would give me the opportunity to become a better editor.Coffeepusher (talk) 01:05, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Re: Welcome back

I saw that you started editing again, and wanted to say "Hay". Your insight has been missed on the AA page. Coffeepusher (talk) 23:07, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Hey, thanks! Good to be back. -- Scarpy (talk) 03:55, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

ShamanDhia's

ok - what are the comments you found about me? Can you tell? Thanks for your help, I'm a newbie here, but not with computers ;) Can you suggest a better format for the bio if it shouldn't read like a resume (I thought facts are good) should I write a little about each project as a timeline? the Hitochi Princess (talk) 19:48, 12 March 2008 (UTC)ShamanDhia

Thanks for contacting me. I found 3 sources from your art school where students spacificly mentioned you as an insparation, it was found during a copernic search.

I am not shure if I am going to have the answers you are looking for, but I will do my best based on my point of view. First off, the biggest problem is the question of Notablility, I believe the qualifications for notability are found in WP:BLP, but a good rule of thumb is "extensive coverage in secondary sources" using WP:RS. Please note that self published and press relieces don't count for reliable sources. Now you have named a few sources in the AFD (article for deletion page), I would say encorperate them into the article itself. I believe you recieved a welcome template when you signed up (if you didn't I will get you one), if you havn't read through it take a look it gives great suggestions on how to format an article and put in citations. I personaly prefer non-timeline/non-bullet point writing because it gives a list of disjoined information which dosn't read well...but that is just a preferance, you will find those formats in articles on Wikipedia all the time. use what you are most comfortable with, and what reads best. For reformating I would suggest that you understand you are trying to tell a narritive of events, not a collection of facts. Facts are neccisary, however the "why should I be interested" question always is in the back of my mind when looking at articles (think human interest...if I am not interested I am much more inclined to think it isn't notable). You have been thrown into a malstrom early in your wiki carreer. AFD's are always confusing and chaotic, and involve a lot of wiki rhetoric and quoting of rules. Right now, it dosn't look good for your article from my perspective...and I am not shure what you can do to save it. What truly pains me, is that you are a good editor and you have the kind of instincts and tone that we need on wikipedia. Most people I have seen in your position bite at the nomination (which dosn't help their case at all), but you truly looked for help which I admire. Given the revisionist tradition in Rhetoric (great speeches are often rewriten in light of events that occured after the speech)(cisaro's speech to Cataline is a perfict example) please imagine that I gave a effective persuasive heartfelt appeal for you to continue editing after all this is said and done. The article is about you, but the AFD is about the article, not you. I hope this helped, feel free to contact me with further questions. Coffeepusher (talk) 20:20, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I tried to put in this citation, but it comes in as text... Licata, Elizabeth (March 18), Watch Out for a Computer That Talks Back, Buffalo, NY: The Buffalo News, pp. B9 {{citation}}: Check date values in: |date= and |year= / |date= mismatch (help) the Hitochi Princess (talk) 21:22, 13 March 2008 (UTC)ShamanDhia

Did you use the "ref" bookends that are 3rd from the right on the first line of the Wiki Markup section in the box under the edit summary section?...they are also located as the last button on top of the edit box. they sometimes screw up.Coffeepusher (talk) 21:27, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Check the page - I just dont get it. Can you edit one reference correctly for me? I'll do the rest on my page. Thanks 161.38.223.246 (talk) 21:56, 13 March 2008 (UTC)ShamanDhia

ok, there you go. the first reference is taken care of. if you have any more problems please let me know, I will be glad to help you. additionaly, if you want to see examples of extensive references see the Public sphere page. I kinda rewrote the entire thing, and it is heavily footnoted.Coffeepusher (talk) 22:39, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok - I did what you did, but the "anchors" aren't working - shouldn't the page jump to the footnote or reference? Check my edits, please... and thanks so much for your time. Some of the editors are mean - plus in the habit of re-stating rules and skimming content. Your dyslx makes you more attentive in the way that you need to read everything to proceed - they're just skimming - either because their new or because their trying to do a lot of edits to get their points or ratings or whatever. Thanks for your attention - I'm doing ok with this, but honestly, if I wasn't writing about the stuff I know (me and my work) I could never interpret the copyright info or the editing - or anything. This has been a very helpful process for me - I know it takes time for you, and I appreciate that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.38.223.246 (talk) 23:33, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Yah, got me?!? I am just suposing it is a glitch in the formating, just wait for it to fix itself...because otherwise I have no idea what to do. the citations look good, and even if the ancors don't work, it dosn't really matter. as for your question about talk pages. every wikipedia page has a talk page. your talk page is used just like what we are doing, exchanging information between users. the pages themselves have talk pages to discuss the article (not the topic of the article like a forum, but just the editing of the article itself). See WP:TALK for more information. then you have the actuall wikipedia pages where the community discusses issues that affect wikipedia itself. the AFD's are one example, then we have pages where we discuss promoting people to Admin (they run the nuts and bolts of wikipedia) etc. the one common factor is that the discussion involves wikipedia itself. don't worry about contacting me, you happened to catch me at a good time, it is always good to help someone unfamiliar with wikipedia.Coffeepusher (talk) 23:52, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

There seems to be an inconsistency with the _note tags (top little #'s) and the _ref tags. (under references) it says in the code example.com|1| ... I'll wait on it, thanks. endnote vs. end_ref ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ShamanDhia (talk • contribs) 00:40, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

ok, shure. honastly you probably know more about code than I do...Pascel was a mathamaticion and philosopher as far as I am conserned. so good luck on that...and if you figure it out, feel free to share your findings. I love info.Coffeepusher (talk) 00:45, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

I just read your question about the endnotes again, and realised that I didn't answer it at all. check WP:REF and that probably has the information you are looking for about foonotes and endnotes. You are working hard, and I applaud you for that. even if the article dosn't stand, you are head and sholders above most people who have been on wikipedia for such a short time. revel in the now, and remember Changtzu's parable about the farmer "is it good? how do I know?". Feel free to contact me at any time...however for tonight I am going to bed.Coffeepusher (talk) 02:02, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

New ppl from visual arts are looking now - can you read my page again - I looked at the bio stuff and tried to write about the projects like you suggested...now more formatting and citations are necessary. Thanks 24.188.143.21 (talk) 19:06, 15 March 2008 (UTC)ShamanDhia Thanks for your comment on my talk page - I tried my best, but not my hardest! My portrait picture is on my userpage, but the GOLEM image was deleted by someone. Why is one accepted on my portrait page, and one deleted... can I have a self-published picture on my userpage?

Leapeiron

I am not sure if this is how I am suppose to talk to you, but I hope you read this. I am new here in wikipedia, and so far I am extremely confused and sad. Just seconds after posting the JACOS page, they are trying to delete it!!! I really dont understand some of the reasons because it is in wikipedia jergon and even if I try to fix it I am still not used to the controls or which button should I use to fix. If somebody could help me or at least let me know what do I have to fix and show me how, then please do, but dont delete my article, it is my very first one. Thank you very much. email me at leapeiron@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by Leapeiron (talk • contribs) 21:36, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

ok, here are some thoughts and experience that I can share with you. First off, you didn't recieve a welcome template...I will take care of this for you. It contains a collection of links that tell you all about wikipedia policies and give advise on editing and creating articles. Secondly, I am really sorry that your first experience with wikipedia policies is a AFD review...Mine was that I pissed off some guy on the Alcoholics Anonymous article that caused a "screaming match" between the two of us for a few days...but AFD reviews are brutal, especially when it is your creation that is up for deletion. Ok, on to your article.

The reason your article was nominated was twofold. First the corperation doesn't appear to be notable. understand that notable dosn't mean it isn't important, it just means that it hasn't caught the publics attention. The criteria for notablility is found in the blue link that is in the explination for why the page was nominated (on the AFD page). Basicly it boils down to is there enough WP:RS (reliable secondary sources) that have talked about this company (press relieces don't count). usually I do a Copernic or Google search to get a good feel of wether there are enough sources (there isn't any set number, but if it is less than say 5 or 10...I usally don't think it is notable). additionaly those sources usually have to tell about some event, or somthing that has captured the public eye.

The second reason your article was nominated was because it appears to be an advertisement for the company. it tells alot about the inner workings of the company, and its future plans but nothing about events that have recieved media attention, catastrophys, law suits, etc. this is also the reason you recieved a WP:COI (conflict of interest) notice that appeared on your talk page. you have more information about this company than the average writer, and more than your sources provide. Now I am not saying that you work for them, I am only telling you the reason you got that notice.

now that beeing said, You arn't in trouble and no one is trying to ban you from wikipedia. although you feel like you are under attack right now we do want you to continue contributing to wikipedia (yah, I know...funny way of showing it...right?) but it is true. I don't know if your article will stay. if you think it is notable, then add some secondary sources (sources not published by the company or press relieces) from reliable sources to the article. tell the human interest side of the company, are they involved in any notable scandals? Did they have any significant press coverage over an action? add that to the article. all that beeing said, It may still not stand. in that case, I encourage you to review Wikipedia policies, and contribute to other articles of interest to you. read the talk pages, and get a feel of where the other editors have been taking those articles, and what areas of the article are under the most scrutiny. get a feel for the policies, particpate in the behind the sceans work.

Again thank you for contacting me, and if you have any questions, feel free to contact me.Coffeepusher (talk) 22:26, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

AA as a cult

Hi, I notice from the Cult article that you have read the Alexander and Rollins study of AA as a cult. Can you tell me if the entry in the article Alcoholics Anonymous accurate to that study? It reads:

'Alexander and Rollins measured AA against criteria developed by Robert Jay Lifton, in his work on Thought Reform and concluded “AA uses all the methods of brain washing, which are also the methods employed by cults,” “It is our contention that AA is a cult."'

Particularly did they conclude the line: “It is our contention that AA is a cult.“

Let me know, if it doesn't match, we can change it.

Thanks very much. - Mr Miles (talk) Mr Miles 15:06, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok, the Alexander and Rollins concluded that AA used the same techniques that a researcher named Lifton identified as “thought reform” (brainwashing, but without the additional baggage that brainwashing holds) and those techniques where also used in cults. Now we get into the argument of wither that makes them a cult or not… Alexander and Rollins thought that any thought reform was negative and thus AA was a cult…while Kevin Wright (1997) in another study found that those techniques where seen as beneficial and thus AA wasn’t a cult. I actually added the text

“And Kevin [Wright], in a study of several members, concluded that although the [Lifton] techniques [were] present in the Alexander and Rollins study, the conclusion that AA was a cult was erroneous because AA bore little semblance to religious cults because the techniques appeared beneficial in AA.[6]^ Wright, K[B] (1997) "Shared Ideology in Alcoholics Anonymous: A Grounded Theory Approach". Journal of Health Communication, Volume 2, pp. 83–99” to the cult page, but it was rejected by the editors.

I hope this helps outCoffeepusher (talk) 16:38, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Public Sphere

(discussion with Pragmatismo (talk)

Would you be able to elaberate on each of the articles you mentioned in the public sphere article. Right now it reads like a literature review (a good one I may add), and would greatly improve the article if you could elaberate on how each work discussed, changed, viewed, structured, added to the theory of the public sphere. Coffeepusher (talk) 23:02, 16 March 2008 (UTC)