:* Hi! <br />in [[Iranian folklore]], you mentioned that the Ashura can not be considered as a folklore ceremony and counting it as "folklore" is offensive. I'm a Shia myself and respect it so much. I don't think the interpretation of ordinary people of the Imam Hussein martyrdom is offensive... the folk show their respect for him in their own way: In Iraq, they make a "boat" for Hazrat Ali-e-Akbar and decorate it with candle lights, but in Iran, they don't do it but use "Taziyeh" and other ways of showing respect, I'm sure they have their own way of mourning for this great persons. By mentioning the way of local folkloric mourning I'm showing how many people respect their religious Heros.'''Don't you think it's better not to delete it'''?--[[User:Alborz Fallah|Alborz Fallah]] ([[User talk:Alborz Fallah|talk]]) 10:20, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
:* Hi! <br />in [[Iranian folklore]], you mentioned that the Ashura can not be considered as a folklore ceremony and counting it as "folklore" is offensive. I'm a Shia myself and respect it so much. I don't think the interpretation of ordinary people of the Imam Hussein martyrdom is offensive... the folk show their respect for him in their own way: In Iraq, they make a "boat" for Hazrat Ali-e-Akbar and decorate it with candle lights, but in Iran, they don't do it but use "Taziyeh" and other ways of showing respect, I'm sure they have their own way of mourning for this great persons. By mentioning the way of local folkloric mourning I'm showing how many people respect their religious Heros.'''Don't you think it's better not to delete it'''?--[[User:Alborz Fallah|Alborz Fallah]] ([[User talk:Alborz Fallah|talk]]) 10:20, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
::Calling the martyrdom of Ashura can be offensive. Religious beliefs are rarely called folklore. Anyhow, you can include Ashura in [[Iranian folklore]] if you have a source that says Ashura is a folklore. --[[User:Agha Nader|Agha Nader]] ([[User talk:Agha Nader#top|talk]]) 18:29, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
::Calling the martyrdom of Ashura folklore can be offensive. Religious beliefs are rarely called folklore. Anyhow, you can include Ashura in [[Iranian folklore]] if you have a source that says Ashura is a folklore. --[[User:Agha Nader|Agha Nader]] ([[User talk:Agha Nader#top|talk]]) 18:29, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Please use the discussion page for the AfD debate for related posts; your absurd demand that I "accept defeat" is more relevant at that talk page than at my personal talk page. Thanks! The Behnam 04:49, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry about breaking up your edit with my topical responses. Someone else had done that to me, and I have not yet seen anything forbidding it, though I understand why you object. Per your request, I'll move all of my points below your response. Is it possible that you comply with my request above? Your comment did not make sense on my page since it directly addressed article content, and I would prefer that you move it to the page. Thanks!!!! The Behnam 21:49, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
AfD Mohammad Ishaq Al-Fayyad
Simple, subject with multiple independent sources, high ranking in the Shiite hierarchies and verifiable... all that is enough to pass WP:BIO regardless of what we think about the person ourselves or about what they stand for. That makes me wonder if some nominators research before nominating for deletion or just go by counting rhyme. But maybe I overreact little do to all bad faith nomination going on in the last days Alf photoman 00:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Agha Nader. There is some discussion on Talk:Anti-Iranianism about future directions for the article, and some such as GabrielF (who put it up for deletion) are proposing some major changes. You may be interested in taking part in the discussions. Cheers. --70.48.243.54 01:19, 2 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No, I didn't know that policy, but I do know that WP isn't censored. I insist that you have too much time on your hands and lack a sense of humour. I'm glad I don't know people like you in real life. Hopefully your lame attempt will fail, because I have no intention of changing this username. Malakaville 07:15, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Don't leave me anymore messages on my userpage and spare me the patronizing attitude. I'm not changing my username, but if they say I have to, then you have to as well for reasons I've outlined there. Malakaville 12:33, 7 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Malakaville User Name Issue
Hey, can you notify me if you bring it to ANI? I would like to participate in the discussion, especially in advancing the compromise, if you do take it to ANI. The Behnam 03:02, 8 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well if you don't want to, that's fine. Just so you know, I don't make avoidance or non-avoidance a part of my editing approach, so don't freak out if I happen to participate in something that you are involved in. The Behnam 03:22, 8 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for telling me you started the ANI. I was actually thinking about doing the same thing myself today, but I hesitated, not because of a lack of evidence, but rather because of an overwhelming amount of evidence. Your initial report is a good start, and it is good you linked to the other discussions from those users who haven't been on for awhile, but were considering ArbCom. I'll be checking over things and contributing new findings as I locate them. It is about time this happened. Seeing that "proud" comment was sort of the last straw. It may be good to look at previous AFDs for articles that were part of Patchouli's POV OR network for research purposes. The Behnam 03:05, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Patchouli
No I haven't had the time to do it. If you do it, count on me to provide some evidence against his sneaky vandalism and participate in arbcom discussions, Barnetj 15:32, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
RFC or ArbCom
The ANI of Patchouli isn't drawing any discussion, perhaps because that admin said it should go to RFC. Barnetj seems more inclined to ArbCom. In any case, I think we may need to start something for it outside of the ANI page. Do you think it best to go RFC or ArbCom? The Behnam 03:12, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Good, it seems we are favoring ArbCom. I'll ask Gerash about it to see if he'd like to be in one of the ArbCom parties. The Behnam 03:48, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's great idea and we will hav too many supporters.--Sa.vakilian 04:09, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As one of admins told me we should use Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee. We should prepare a text and some admins like LittleDan may help us. Then they may banned him completely. --Sa.vakilian 11:00, 18 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
attention
Salam. Ma bayad chand ta az POV pushing haye Patchuli ra rev konim va moraqeb bashim ta agar bargasht be baqie ham beguyeem.--Sa.vakilian 03:56, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
User name
yes agha nader, my username does refer to Imam Hussain (a.s.) Yahussain 16:09, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Video section
Just to clear things up, if you see the version of the page I was looking at, the video clips section was defunct [1]. You managed to fix the section, thanks. The Behnam 02:25, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, it seems you fixed it in your 'revert', yet acted like my removal of the defunct section made no sense. Kind of odd. The Behnam 02:32, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that huge interview shouldn't be added. I thought that the template simply hadn't been made yet, so they should add the section after the template is made. Next time I'll actually look into it. The "mere puppet" appears to be based off of the title of the video on its post, but perhaps we can give a more neutral description of the interview. The full title is "A mere puppet? You judge for yourself." Any ideas? I'd hate to just number the videos but a neutral description should be used. I am wondering what the topic of the section is. Maybe something to do with 'the blue-eyed people'? I don't see anything else about that video standing out, topic-wise. The Behnam 15:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You know, the video in question is actually quite useless and incoherent. It is just an example of HIM (lol!) answering a dumb question poorly. I'm going to solve the neutrality problem by simply removing it from the template. The Behnam 01:49, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Done. It was really quite no-value-added. I'm wondering why we have a template linking to those youtube videos anyway. It is kind of odd since external links usually go under the external links section. Also interesting is that Patchouli made that template. Anyway, the neutrality problem is gone for now. The Behnam 01:54, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, that's fine. The only problem is the new title. It isn't very descriptive considering that a few other videos in that template are from the same interview and have topical titled. What may be the best solution is finding a link to the whole interview so that we do not need to topically judge them. Tell me what you think of this. Thanks. The Behnam 03:07, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"Bogus"
While it escapes me why I used the word "support", I was referring to your 3RR report against me which did not go through for the same reasons my most recent one against Mardavich wouldn't. I don't mean to speak ill of your contribs, Nowruz or otherwise. It just happens to be that the two 3RR reports were invalid for similar reasons. Cheers. The Behnam 17:11, 30 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. I removed a picture of Nader Shah's Sword from its article because it contradicted that in the external link. However this picture is still used in Nader Shah's article.
The problem is that I can't figure out which one is best. They clearly depict a different sword. If you know anything about the issue I'd appreciate your help. Thanks. The Behnam 14:10, 31 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that there are not too many sources on his sword. Only one website is refernced. I am not even sure such an article should exist. Maybe it would be best to incorporate it the Nader Shah article. Since there is only one source, we should use the sword it depicts and not the one in the postcard. Agha Nader 16:26, 31 March 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
For some reason I cannot figure what postcard you are referring to, but I think that we should remove the images for now. I actually have a different idea. Supposedly there is a mural depicting Mohammad Shah Qajar with this sword, so if we can get a picture of that mural it may be more appropriate. I'll start looking around, and perhaps ask some other editors (like Zereshk) who generally have a lot of pictures from Iran. Do you think this is a good idea? The Behnam 16:44, 31 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please see [2], I referred to it as the postcard picture because it says "Old Iranian postcards and magazines." Do you have any source other than the sole one provided in the article? How can we be sure such a sword existed? After all I am sure Shah Ismail, Shah Abbas, et al. has swords, but are they notable? Is not it OR to find a painting with Mohammad Shah Qajar and say it is Nader Shah's Sword? Agha Nader 16:55, 31 March 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
No it is not OR. It is from the external link at that article, which shows a very different sword from the postcard picture and also mentions the mural. Anyway, it was just an idea to use the mural to depict it. At this point it seems we should probably remove all of the pictures until authenticity can be confirmed. I'll do that for now. The Behnam 17:05, 31 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Farrokh
Hello, I notice that you reinserted a text on Farrokh with the comment "no reasons have been provided to not include Farrokh that aren't I DONT LIKE IT arguments." It's admittedly difficult to find anything on the talk page due to the multiple, simultaneous threads on identical topics, so I thought I'ld direct you to this diff with my own criticisms of the article. These are not, I think you'll agree, "I DONT LIKE IT arguments," but rather address the substance of the article and its flaws. In addition, the text which you inserted, which appears originally to have been added by Azerbaijani yesterday, is quite poorly written (for example, the East is presumably not "portrayed as backward in his article"), and does not employ standard citation styles, so that its recycling looks more like an act of obstinacy than a genuine attempt to improve the article. Best, --Javits2000 14:47, 31 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I am quite aware of your edit. I read this edit [3], and I agree with some of your points. The problem is that your edit is a critique of Farrokh's article. Not one of your criticisms bar the information from the article to be provided. Please cite a policy or guideline, and not just your anaylsis of the article. Furthermore if you think the edit I added is flawed, you can help fix it. I hope you are aware that whole texts are not supposed to be reverted because they have grammatical errors. If you think there are parts of the text that are not in the article you can correct it. Agha Nader 16:34, 31 March 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
Hmm. While there is probably a relevant size-related criterion, it may also help to note that inclusion of Farrokh, especially to the extent you included him, can be considered undue weight. The Behnam 16:48, 31 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please explain why it is undue weight? He is given the same amount of "size" as Daryaee. Furthermore, his article provides different information than Daryaee, and has different views. Agha Nader 16:53, 31 March 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
It places undue weight on certain criticisms. I may be able to add more to this, but anyway, bring it up at the talk page so others can be involved too. Cheers. The Behnam 17:45, 31 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please do not make accusations about other editors on the 300 page. It is considered uncivil and skirts the edge of stalking. Please exercise AGF. Consider this a warning about being more civil and AGF. Arcayne 03:42, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Get real! You accused me of having a "merry little band". You have told me to use my "noggin". You accuse me of having a "frail post-Persian psyche", this is tantamount to racism. Please reference a statement I made that is uncivil. Agha Nader 03:53, 2 April 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
the post-Persian psyche thing was certainly not directed at you. I don't even know if you are Persian/Iranian or not. I was referring to those people editing in about how the film "is a great lie about Iran," - that anyone could get their president to comment about an action movie clearly says that there are some ego issues in play. That is observation, not racism. I can disagree with this viewpoint without being prejudiced. As for the merry little band, it seems that you are in very close contact with several of the other editors in the piece, particularly those who have worked on other wiki-projects before. I knew that by addressing my comments to all, I wouldn't have to answer them singly over and over again.
Noggin is another word for head, which I asked you to use, as you were asking a question that seemed far below what I think is your intelligence. You are a smart person; it does you little credit to act like you are not. After all, I list you on my User List of Interesting Wikipedians, right alongside The Benham. I didn't want you to feel left out. :)
Sometimes I think that you might not be aware of the effect that your argument style is viewed by others. You certainly come across as very aggressive and not very polite - at least, this is how you are perceived by many editors within the 300 article. Perhaps you could take a moment and look at what you are about to post, and ask yourself how you would react if someone used those words on you. I am pretty sure you would be unhappy with the impact they would have on you. I know that I have certainly felt uncomfortable with your tone and behavior upon occasion. Maybe think about what i had to say here. Arcayne 08:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What in the world does this mean "That I find little patience for proven POV editing is not against Wikipedia policy; while I choose to be perhaps a bit insulting of the POV nonsense and not at all sensitive to the frail post-Persian psyche, I would remind you and others that it is not my job at WP to make you feel better. You have mommies for that, and I am not your mommy"? Please clarify. Please tell me, what is your tone in this comment? Agha Nader 00:27, 3 April 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
Pretty much a deadpan B-sharp.
That more than a few people think their is POV-editing going on is neither new nor unsubstantiated. That others seem very concerned about how this movie about the ancient world affects modern Iran (not even called Persia anymore, assisting hte disconnect futher),which is odd, considering that most folk outside of Iran don't really seem to have a problem with this movie. If you are Iranian, I can understand how you might be offended by this film. However, that is precisely why you shouldn't be editing in the film; your own bias is sure to creep out. And do I think some of the vandalizing editors and the POV-pushing editors were posting to simply make themselves feel better, ergo the mommy comment. That you read this and internalized it to mean that I was speaking to you is akin to somebody watching Jody Foster in a movie and deciding that she's telling you to kill Englebert Humperdinck.
That the Iranian government - with all it should be concentrating on concerning world affairs, decides to all but declare war on a single movie addresses pointedly the idea that if a single action movie can affect your self-worth as a country bad enough, your problems likely run deeper than nuclear instpections and snagging up Brits. Now, since I do not know your ethnicity and or nationality and do not want to know, I cannot see why you would choose to make this all about you. You might want to consider my remarks and take a wikibreak from 300. It seems to be upsetting you too much. Arcayne(cast a spell) 01:29, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"...your problems likely run deeper than nuclear instpections and snagging up Brits", what do you mean? Please explain why it is my problem. Agha Nader 01:57, 9 April 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
Again, you are presuming i am speaking of you personally. Please reread the post a bit more carefully. The 'you' I am referring to is Iran, the country, not you the person. Maybe you might to reread things before forwarding them on. Arcayne(cast a spell) 12:21, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You want me to believe you were directing your comment to the nation of Iran? If this is the case, my talk page is not the place to post comments directed to the Islamic Republic. Only post relevant comments please. Agha Nader 15:54, 9 April 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
Civility
Regarding this edit [4], I remind you to please adhere to WP:CIVIL. Your sarcasm and tone is not conducive to cooperation and detracts from the collaborative environment. Cheers. The Behnam 04:19, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As you know, tone is quite subjective. What do you think my tone was? I feel my tone was appropriate for the context of the discussion, given the personal attacks I have cited. I have once responded to Arcayne "You accused me of having a "merry little band". You have told me to use my "noggin". You accuse me of having a "frail post-Persian psyche", this is tantamount to racism. Please reference a statement I made that is uncivil." Please cite a sentence that was sarcastic. Sarcasm is objective, so you shouldn't have much trouble (assuming I was sarcastic). I completely agree with you though, sarcasm "is not conducive to cooperation and detracts from the collaborative environment." I was not sarcastic though. If you are referring to the title I addressed you as "'Interesting Wikipedian'", you have Arcayne to blame, since he coined the term. I assumed you would not mind me referring to you as "'Interesting Wikipedian'" since you did not object to Arcayne using it. Agha Nader 04:26, 2 April 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
Is it a problem to ask the question to Arcayne without using the bold format? —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 19:06, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please read WP:EQ. It states "Don't ignore questions." User Arcayne has ignored my question several times already. I can provide diffs if you wish. By bolding my question I hoped he would see it and respond to it. Not answering it would be in violation of [WP:EQ]. Bold format is not uncivil, while CAPS can be. I am sure you have noticed that I rarely use the bold format, but I think it is appropriate in this case. Do not you agree? Agha Nader 19:13, 5 April 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
I responded to your questions/accusations here. I am presuming you read it, since you track my edits. I still await the recetn evidence of them. Cheers, Arcayne(cast a spell) 13:01, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
According to your actions and comments, it would be alright to remove your last comment. You seem to believe that useing bold text is "uncivil", and "shouts". I base this on you removing several of my edits because they were in bold text. Furthermore, you removed Khorshid's edit because it was in bold text. Would it be fair to remove your comment since you "shout" your user name? Agha Nader 19:39, 8 April 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
Regarding the above statement, it might be worthwhile to review false analogy. Regarding your recent request at WP:AN/I, please also review WP:POINT. If you're having a problem you can't get over with another user, the dispute resolution process is designed to assist in helping you. I've found sometimes tho, that the best way to resolve what appears to be an unresolvable conflict, is to just walk away. That's why I recommended WP:NAM earlier. Cheers, Tomertalk 20:01, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I completely disagree. Elaborate on why it is a false analogy. Agha Nader 20:49, 8 April 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
Arcayne pretty clearly has his username bold as part of his signature personalization, something that no rational person would interpret as "shouting", whereas bolding might be perceived as shouting when used in text for anything other than specific word or phrasal emphasis. I'm not saying I agree, per se, with Arcayne's removal of your remarks on the basis that he perceived them to be incivil shouting, just that you proposing to remove his remarks because his signature is in bold letters is ludicrous. The one does not follow from the other. Call it non sequitur if it makes you happier to do so, but I'll stick with false analogy for now. Comparing his signature to discussion text does not track—the two are irrevocably unrelated. Cheers, Tomertalk 21:43, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And let's ensure that we have all our facts straight to begin with - something I've always found to be a useful tool in editing. Khorshid's posts were not removed (thought I'd point that out to the rest of the audience, who weren't privy to the fun elsewhere), but de-bolded. As for the removal of your posts in my talk page, I've rather explained it to you three different ways. Allow me to be succint - if you are concerned with the appearance of my signature, you might wish to avoid posting in those areas where I am sure to be, and avoid making remarks which are sure to prompt a response. You needn't respond to this - I might post a response yet again. :) Arcayne(cast a spell) 22:28, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Then I would be warranted under Arcayne's logic: "May [sic] talk page - if I wish to change contentious edits, or headers, I will." Agha Nader 22:55, 8 April 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
I think this subject has been done to death, warmed over and killed again. Tomertalk 23:35, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please be relevant. Agha Nader 02:04, 9 April 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
300 Lead
Hello, in the past you've expressed strong opinions about the wording of the lead to 300 (film). Six numbered options have now been presented at talk, here; could you please visit and weigh in as to which are acceptable, and which you would prefer? Thanks, --Javits2000 12:37, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Mohammad Reza Pahlavi
Regarding this revert by you [5]. This has been discussed at the talk page here. If you want, respond at the talk page, but dont revert again. Thanks. --- Melca 17:07, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Changed your mind?
I was looking over the origin of the "Nader Shah" link at Anti-Hinduism and I found this [6]. Did you just change your mind? :) The Behnam 01:32, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oh yeah I agree. And yes the article has similar problems. What some of the people who put the OR in don't seem to realize is that OR actually discredits and disvalues the concept that they are trying to support by detracting from the quality of the article. I just asked you about it because it seemed funny and I didn't know if you remembered that you had added it. Anyway, further help with that article is always invited. Also, perhaps you could take a look at ShiaChat.com? I did a little and put some tags, but I think it needs major reworking, and its notability may also need to be evaluated. The Behnam 02:08, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I see what you mean about there lacking many words, though one I see immediately "What makes ShiaChat.com specifically fair". Perhaps I'll find a different template to use; I think there is one for 'fan-like' tone. As far as the restaurant goes, I've heard about it but haven't made my way over yet. Its opening was delayed a bit but it is up now. I haven't heard anything about it being good or bad from those who went. You been yet? The Behnam 02:38, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Advice on prejudiced admins
Salam agha, my advice when dealing with admins who have a prejudice or racism towards Iranians, like User:TShilo12 (Tomer) is to simply ignore them and do not continue the discussion, but seek help elsewhere from admins who do not harbour hostility towards Iranians. Otherwise they may try to find an excuse to get you angry and then block you. Its not worth it. Unfortunately such hostility to Iranians (and Muslims) can be at a high level here, but there are also many good admins for every bad admin. I never bother to argue with admins who have anti-Iranian POV, its pointless. Hopefully one day WP will have a policy to prevent people who have such racist bias (and who even admit such racism as in this case!) from becoming or remaining admins.
Anyway the best course of action is to open an RFC for 300 (film) and to talk to admins when they try to push their POV. Remember, we have plenty of sources on our side, so they are clearly in the wrong. If RfC doesn't work, we go to ArbCom since their continued POV pushing is unacceptable on WP. We'll wait and see what they do, if they continue pushing for this "historical fiction" nonsense, then we take the next step. Khorshid 03:08, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I see what you mean, thanks for the advice. Agha Nader 03:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
Regarding Arcayne
Can you not let go of this situation? Neither of you seem capable of having a civil discussion, and to be honest, your re-addition of your comment that Arcayne removed is borderline harassive. I would highly suggest that both of you move on; there's clearly not going to be any kind of correspondence between you two that would be beneficial to Wikipedia as a whole. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 16:05, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Arcayne
I know you and Arcayne don't get along, but it would be a good idea to just leave it be. If he wants to remove a comment you left on his page, let him. It will always be there. He can't erase the history. Nothing productive is coming from this, please just let it go. I will ask him to do the same. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 16:06, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
He provided no rational reason for removing an answer to his question. Clearly because he did not think the answer existed. Just because a discussion takes place at his talk does not mean he can control it. He has a tendency to bastardize other peoples comments and edits; he should be told it is frowned upon. I think I am being forced to "leave it be" anyway. Agha Nader 16:10, 9 April 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
All contributions are appreciated and strongly encouraged, but your recent edit to the userpage of another user may be considered vandalism. In case you are the user, please login under that account and proceed to make the changes. Please use the sandbox for any tests you may want to do, particularly to userpages. Take a look at our introduction page to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thank you. You have been asked to stop introducing tendentious commentary into my user talk page. Please consider this a warning and stop. -Arcayne(cast a spell) 16:19, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please elaborate on how it is vandalism. In response to a similar accusation, user Dmcdevit responded "Please do not refer to other ediors you disaree with as vandals, as this is uncivil, see WP:VAND#What_vandalism_is_not". Agha Nader 16:25, 9 April 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
I know, but even if he removes it, it will still be there. I can go to the history and find the first time you wrote your comment. I'm sure if you've ever been warned or blocked for something that I can go back in your history and find it. Nothing is ever hidden from people completely. If someone just glances over a talk page and doesn't see any warnings, true, they may think differently, but it isn't as bad as looking at the history and seeing a private edit war over the insertion of a comment on a user talk page. It doesn't speak highly for either of you. I'm just trying to help separate the two of you before something happens that brings you both down. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 16:23, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
User Arcayne asked "As well, if you could cite a Wikipedia policy that excuses stalking behavior under the pretense of monitoring so-called edits." This user should read WP:STALK. ArbCom decision referred to in WP:STALK states
"It is not acceptable to stalk another editor who is editing in good faith. (Note that everyone is expected to assume good faith in the absence of definite evidence to the contrary.) Once an editor has given reason to suspect bad faith, monitoring is appropriate, but constantly nit-picking is always a violation of required courtesy."
User Arcyane should stop accusing me of stalking and vandalism.Agha Nader 04:15, 9 April 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
Reza Shah and Nazis
See my comments on the talk please. Black (the main source used) has been discredited. Plus, look at the alleged statement from the Nazi official about a "pan-Islamic state from Casablanca to Tehran"! Come on, that is total bullshit. Iran under Reza Shah was 100% secular, Reza Shah was not an observant Muslim, and more important, Iran is predominantly Shi'a so being part of a "pan-Islamic" state makes no sense. Plus, Morocco (where Casablanca is located) is not a very religious country and it is non-Arab (they are Berber), so why the hell would Moroccans want to be part of such a state??? It really makes no sense. Like I said, either better sources should be provided or they should not be presented as facts. I think the allegations are too contentious. Khorshid 23:20, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
300 Edits
Please, don't go the race route. I know Miskin is not being graceful here - and he has been counseled about that before - but the very last thing we need is a race debate in the article. If that happens, an RfC will occur,and likely ArbCom will step in. No one will happy with those results, as I have seen from prior decisions coming from them. I know you and I have our issues, but we will have to learn to be bigger than those issues, and you need to be bigger than Miskin's baiting. I will also talk to him about that; I'm not singling you out. -Arcayne(cast a spell) 01:07, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Do not make threats on my talk page. Miskin has admitted to disenfranchising users based on their race. If you do not like it, then tell him to stop doing it. I call 'em as I see 'em. Agha Nader 02:09, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No one is making threats on your talk page, Agha. I am stating that discussion areas that turn into ugly racial things always end up as RfC's or worse. Just take a look at the RfC and ArbCom archives to see how that plays out. Practically everyone who makes even defensive remarks in response to the racism end up on edit parole or worse. Something akin to that happened with Mardavich not too long ago.
I am just asking you that, if you cannot let it go, then you could perhaps take your anger to his talk page rather than the article diuscussion area, or even an RfC for user conduct. It certainly has nothing to do with the article, and therefore doesn't belong in the article Discussion page. You might even want to note that Miskin has not commented since then. Anywhere on Wikipedia, for that matter. Perhaps you could assume good faith and presume that he might regret having said that and is looking for way to withdraw without looking as foolish as his own statements.
I am asking you to please let it go, or take that discussion to either his user talk page or to WP:DR for redressing. -Arcayne(cast a spell) 10:25, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And if you wish to discuss this matter with me, you can write me on my talk page, if you wish. :) Arcayne(cast a spell) 10:47, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I do not engage in conversation on talk pages that you censor, bastardize, delete, and adulterate, on grounds of the comments being "contentious". --Agha Nader 16:05, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Nader. No i dont. Do you in turn have a reliable secondary source which states that the parliament gave him the title "The Great"? If not that whole line should be removed. Dont you think ? Also since you reverted my edit i am waiting for a response to my last post at the Mohammad Reza Shah talk page regarding his denial of Oriana's book. --- Melca 06:37, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please replay to this comment at the Reza Shah talk page and not my talk page since other people are following the discussion there. thanks. --- Melca 21:39, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry. The reason I did that is that I had replied on April 7th [7] on the article's talk page, yet you said you are "waiting for a response" on April 11th. --Agha Nader 21:56, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Nader Shah
Salam. Taqriban ta 1 amh dige in maqale mored barresi qarar migire. Man yek negah kolli andakhtam. Taqriban hame chizesh khube joz darbargiri. Yani dar in maqale chizi darbare shive hokmrani nader neveshte nashode. Be har hal ta vaqt darid in eyb ra raf konid. Baraye ettela bishtar az shive "review" in safahat ra ham bekhanid:[8] and [9]. Agar vaqt dashtid be ma dar ebhbude maqle Rumi komak konid ta fail nashavad.--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 05:15, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Durud. Sepas gozaram keh komak mikoni. Amah, daghighan nemidoonam shive hokmrani nader chi hast. Agar mitooni ye khoorde bishtar tarif konid. Agha Nader 18:07, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Mani ye shomah bood ke az kar haye khalafesh benevisim? --Agha Nader 18:09, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Excuse me, I'm too busy. But there are too many books about this issue in English. Also I prefer to describe the situation of Iran before and after of his kingdom. I think Tajic can help you with it.--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 08:10, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
hi, if you read all the major biographies of Nader Shah, you'd know that he was adopted by the Afshar tribe when he was a kid, he wasn't an Afshar or Turk himself, he was Khorasani. so that source is making wrong conclusions about Nader's origin based on the origins of the tribe he was adopted into.
Please sign your comment with four tildes. The article does not say he was of Afshar birth, even though you seem to think it say that (your edit summary: "all the sources say he was adoptd by the Afshar, he wasn't an Afshar by birth, so this source is making wrong conlcusions about his origins"). The article says "Nader Shah was of Turkic decent. He was a member the Turkic tribe, Afshar, of northern Persia." Nader Shah was of Turkic decent, if you have a source that says he wasn't we can include that material in the article. The article just says he was a member of the Afshar tribe. Anyway, if you have a source that disputes it (i.e. "all the major biographies") please cite it.--Agha Nader 22:21, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
aziz man, chera lajbaazi mikoni, Nader Shah turk nabodeh, aslan Turkman bodeh, vaa tavasot Afsharha adopt shodeh, oon tikeh tou ghesmat origins hast baa source, aslan nabayad dobareh tekrar bsheh.
I wonder if you can help me with the above mentioned person.
He's probably stalking your web page, since he accused you of it, but I've had problems with this guy, and it looks like you have too. Would you please contact me? I need some help here. I met him on the Mukhtar Mai page (the Pakistan woman who has won a lot of human rights awards after a gang rape for creating an non-violence and education center), where he informed me that writing about her agency was "advertisement". I just laughed at him (and two other guys - along with calling them sexists, for which they called me sexist and racist, lol), and said that its a non-profit, and non-profits don't advertise, or if you call that advertising, all writing is. Anyways, he figured out my work. I left the UN to found a WTO related NGO, and he started attacking my page RTV-Right to Vanish and he got the two other guys who were attacking me to bang my site, and then he recommended it for deletion. It is in the process of being deleted, as it is apparently very easy to get people in that frame of mind here.
The site was a Wikiproject and is very technical in a new area, so it wasn't easy for me to substantiate.
Anyways, this Mr. B, stalked me all over the board, and removed every link I've made for the past year.
He really has issues with women, and I'm not surprised to find he's attacked you so viciously, including claiming you stalk him. I'm sure he's stalked you, because he stalked me. I've never seen anything like it, and I've been posting on Wikipedia for about 2 years (to his 4 months).
I am sick right now, having an operation next week, and I'm under a lot of stress, and I got upset about this, and this little creep has managed to get a huge mob against me.
The only bright point is when I went to the UN and had a few economists post about the site. The gang bang quit for a few hours. But Mr. B is still posting trash about me, and the organization, and I'm banned (because I spammed my Wikiproject people to ask for support).
I don't know if you would please mind, but would you please go over to this website, including the AfD? I have to write this as a sock, but it is obvious who I am. I don't care. But I can see that this guy has harassed you too, and I would appreciate it if you'd go over there to the website. I could use some help from someone who knows this guys antics. He got all his little friends to join in.
I read that you know him IRL. What is he, 15? He seems to spend every waking moment on Wiki. I mean, I haven't been here for months. I just went on to fix the MMWO Wiki input, to help them, as I might go to Pakistan and help them to set up some things this summer. The reaction I got from younger men from that region, some of them in the U.S. (and mind you, I spend lots of time in the middle east, but I am usually in professional situations, so I get lots of respect), was phenomenal. I called them on it, and they just started calling *me* racist and sexist (which is pretty funny, considering my work and background).
Thanks so much in advance.
I will bet you anything he's got your page watched, and he'll read this. He's really a freak!
He's really, really childish (and has been called that several times in the past month - he's calling me names on my professional page, and saying "what kind of an organization this is". Its just amazing.
xxxxxxxx (-email removed-)
Islamophilia
Thanks for letting me know, I've taken care of it. Jayjg (talk) 01:49, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Article locking
It's locked in whatever state I find it. It has only been a few days; has no-one responded in Talk:? Jayjg (talk) 18:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Re: edit. Not sure why you reverted the inapropriate references. You added the content here origionaly so I'm sure you based what was written on actual cited sources. A proper references actualy points to source data, not to the root of a domain. perhaps reviewing Wikipedia:Citing sources before reinserting links that lack Wikipedia:Verifiability.--Hu12 03:56, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Very well. I will add the references, check to see if I have done it properly. Improving material is usually preferred over just removing material, that is why I reverted your edit.--Agha Nader 16:52, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I took another short look at this article and tagged a couple of things; it also could use a copyedit (maybe ask the League of Copyeditors?) I haven't been doing much work at WP:GAC lately, but you're welcome to renominate it once you think it's ready again. Chubbles 17:58, 24 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Mohammad Reza Pahlavi article
Greetings. If you have the time, please have a look at this [10]. Since you have been contributing to the article in the past, I wonder if you have any comments. Shervink 15:48, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Greetings. I have started a RFC/USER discussion concerning Artaxerex here. If you agree with the RFC, as a person who has tried and not succeded to solve the dispute you should certify the basis for the dispute by adding your name to the list under Users certifying the basis for this dispute, so that the RFC is accepted. Shervink 10:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Salam
Please keep an eye on History of political Islam in Iran. User:Mike222324 constantly vandalizes the page by removing the information on Abdollah Shahbazi. It is possible that the user is shahbazi himself. Mamnoon. Sina Kardar 17:46, 28 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's all sourced from Axworthy. I've given references to each of the chapters from his biography which I compressed to form each section. The only claims I can see which need citing in more detail - since they are likely to be argued over - are Nader's ethnicity and his date of birth - and I've done that. Cheers. --Folantin 18:34, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Personal attacks by Aschoeff
Please remind user Aschoeff that personal attacks and incivility is not tolerated on Wikipedia. He has attacked me here [11]. He said "...you are disingenuous. I do not trust your intentions. I believe you are Evil." --Agha Nader 06:00, 26 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've just left him a note. Please leave him alone. he may cool down so don't be impatient. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 06:59, 26 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the help. --Agha Nader 14:31, 26 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
300 edits
If you find yourself in disagreement with anything on the article, and you find yourself getting reverted, please take the time to avail yourself of the Discussion page to voice your concern, and not via an edit summary. thanks in advance. - Arcayne(cast a spell) 11:59, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You are very, very close to getting reported for edit-warring and POV-pushing (look both of those terms up before even thinking of reverting again, c'oz' you know I will report you). Note that my last two reverts strongly urged you to discuss your edits. If you can cite anywhere in the film or credits where they referred to ANYONE as Iranian, then we can consider using it. If you cannot cite that, then we are done here, - Arcayne(cast a spell) 16:06, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Be my guest. I did not edit war at all. I clarified material, and you reverted it--without discussing in the talk, mind you. Moreover, when El Greco proposed a compromise, I accepted. However, you reverted his edit (without discussing in the talk). So, tell me, how is it that you are not the edit warrior and I am? You unilaterally reverted edits by several people. I did not. --Agha Nader (talk) 04:19, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps you are unclear as to the definition of edit-warring; please feel free to check it out. Adding the same edit, repeatedly and without discussion is precisely edit-warring, Agha. El Greco is a spiffy guy, and is always trying to make peace - one of the many things I consider cool about the editor - but the compromise is not in keeping with the accuracy of the article. I removed edits contrary to that, replacing the pre-existing (and accurate) version.
I have offered you the clear and friendly opportunity to point where in the film that Xerxes or his army are called Iranians, or are noted as being from Iran. In fact, I submitted that you only had to find a single reference to 'Iran' or 'Iranians' anywhere in the film or credits. As we both know this doesn't happen, Wikipedia doesn't allow for you to synthesize a connection between ancient Persians and modern-day Iranians.
Understand that I am not suggesting that they are not connected, but only pointing out that your doing so isn't allowed int he fashion you chose. You and I have had our difficulties in the past, but understand that my revert is not based upon this. I have no idea how or even if you've matured as an editor in the intervening time since our last contact. I will say, however, that you need to be very, very clear and be able to support your position, and not allow your personal feelings to color and cloud your editorial judgment, as they will be your downfall.
Again, let me know if you find any Iran reference. - Arcayne(cast a spell) 15:43, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Consensus
Agha Nader, the Persian Gulf article was subject to heated debates and edit-wars for months, before a compromise was reached by all sides of the conflict, and the article has been stable since, please don't just rewrite the article's lead without a consensus. I see where you're coming from, but WP:Lead is NOT a policy, ao it's NOT biding, it's just a guideline, and in this case, it was decided by a broad consensus to leave out all translations and varieties of the name to the name section in order to reach compromise that was satisfying to all parties. AlexanderPar (talk) 03:53, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I certainly agree that "the Persian Gulf article was subject to heated debates and edit-wars for months." Unfortunately, the debates were dominated by incivility, and other breaches of Wikipedia policy. For instance, some of the editors clearly had an intent other than improving Wikipedia. Some actually admitted to trying to preserve the Persian Gulf as the true name of the waterway. However noble the cause, it obviously is not the job of Wikipedia. But seriously, read WP:CONSENSUS. It states, "When consensus is referred to in Wikipedia discussion, it always means 'within the framework of established policy and practice'. Even a majority of a limited group of editors will almost never outweigh community consensus on a wider scale, as documented within policies." Even if WP:LEAD is "just a guideline," it is 'established practice.' I really hope you understand. There is no need to compromise the quality of Wikipedia to appease some fanatics. I understand their argument. I am actually rather sympathetic to it since I think the Persian Gulf is the correct name. But by no means will I project my views onto Wikipedia. I will not let others do it either. They wish to banish the Arabian Gulf as even a term used by some Arabs. They want to mislead readers to think the Persian Gulf is the only name used (when all evidence points otherwise). You are a smart person. You have made good edits to the Nader Shah article. Surely, you can see why the old compromise is not valid. --Agha Nader (talk) 06:01, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The compromise has a broad consensus, that's what makes it valid. I think you're misreading [[WP:CONSENSUS] which explicitly says "as documented within policies" and WP:lead is not a policy. Even if WP:Lead was a policy, some may argue that Arabian Gulf is not a common name in English, and not covered by WP:lead, so things are not as clear cut as you seem to believe. Please understand that my intention is not to try and banish the Arabic name, as the naming issue is already discussed in detail within the article's body. The main issue and concern here is taking the controversy to the lead, which will just make the article unstable and volatile with both sides trying to add and remove their POVs to the lead. Trust me, it will be a never-ending source of edit-waring and hostility. I am just trying to keep the article stable and peaceful. AlexanderPar (talk) 03:53, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please do not accuse other editors of vandalism as you did here when this is a content dispute. In addition, if you revert once more, you will have reached your 3RR limit. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 17:31, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I reverted vandalism. I provided a sourced edit. It was by no means contentious. If it was, it has not been expressed in the talk.--Agha Nader (talk) 22:08, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please read on on how Wikipedia actually defines as vandalism, Nader. And it was indeed expressed in the article discussion by at least two editors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arcayne (talk • contribs) 01:08, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Arcayne, take a look at Wikipedia:Wikiquette alerts. Hopefully, we can resolve the problem of your behavior I am willing to help you better your attitude.--Agha Nader (talk) 02:33, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I was thinking the very same thing about you, Nader. - Arcayne(cast a spell) 03:25, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
ObserverToSee
I am reprinting the exact message I posted on Observer's page:
This is for both of you (bc i know that Nader will find this message); please leave the questions/accusations/etc of sockpuppetry off the article discussion page. If wither of you feel the other is a sock, go to WP:SPP or WP:RFCU, and let an admin make the accusations. Nether of you are in that happy place of being blameless here, and it would be best for you both to just file reports - there is no harm in filing them if you truly feel that sockpuppetry is going on. If you are just making the accusations to snipe at the other, I have to let you know that admins take an exceptionally dim view of that sort of behavior, almost more than sockpuppetry. - Arcayne(cast a spell) 07:09, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Quaint. You seem angry that I read the post about me on his talk page (you have expressed this on wikialerts). Why is that?
Simple. I wasn't so much angry as amused that you accuse me of stalking you and then seem to make comments where I happen to post them in another user's talk space. I hope that clarifies matters for you. - Arcayne(cast a spell) 17:31, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Following me to an article that you do not edit, and harassing me there (Persian Gulf), is a world of difference from me commenting on a section labeled "Agha Nader" on Observer's talk. --Agha Nader 18:05, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ironically, I can see your point with this, Agha Nader. But I can also understand why Arcayne would have an interest in observing your behavior. Because of all of this, you and I both have the pleasure of each other's name sectioned in our respective talk pages... ObserverToSee 18:13, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
See, this is where I think the disconnect happens for you, Nader. You see my pointing out and request that you cease being uncivil and making personal attacks as "harassing". You seem unable to recognize that your own actions are often perceived as being far different than what you claim they actually intended. Surely you realize that if someone used the same wording that you do, directing some of your own comments back at you, that you would not feel as if you had been attacked. There is never a reason for personal attacks. not against a vandal or a sockpuppet, or someone who simply dares to disagree with your viewpoint or edits. Never. Until you realize that, your editing life here in Wikipedia is going to seem to you to be a long series of unhappy and unfortunate events. - Arcayne(cast a spell) 19:11, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It is only you who has a disconnect. For you have attacked me, and I have not attacked you. It is you who has called me a nationalist. I have never made nationalistic edits, yet you insult me. I hope soon enough your attitude will improve. --Agha Nader 19:28, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have the same wish for you, Agha. You apparently are capable of performing good edits; it would be unfortunate if your behavior led to some unfortunate occurrences. - Arcayne(cast a spell) 20:24, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What am I supposed to take out of such an incoherent statement? What "unfortunate occurrences"? I do not need your threats on my talk page. I consider your message here just another part of the problem. Please measure your response carefully as I have decided over these last few days to value WP:DNFT. Have a good day.--Agha Nader 23:21, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's a marvelous policy to follow, Nader. Apparently, my comments were not so 'incoherent' that you were unable to realize that I was pointing out that being uncivil and making attacks could negatively affect your editing. It was an observation, not at all a threat. Perhaps you need to sit down and have a cup of tea. I am not your enemy. - Arcayne(cast a spell) 23:42, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I am not the first to suspect Observer is a sock. Indeed, he was bluntly asked by Ahwaz [12]. Observer responded to Ahwaz's inquiry "I’m not surprised by the seemingly usual suspicion and insinuation that I’ve edited under other names and the complement that I seem well versed in WikiPedia editing and rules." How quaint that Observer took it as an attack when I asked ("By the way, are you a sockpuppet?) and as a complement when Ahwaz asked. I pray utility had no part in Observer's reaction.--Agha Nader 07:58, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It would be very beneficial for you to read everything carefully before jumping to any conclusions. Categorizing my response to Ahwaz as taking a complement for his asking me if I have edited under other names before is grasping at straws. Telling me that I seemed well versed, is a complement when I'm very new to WikiPedia. This is let alone the fact that your particular question to me was not construed as an attack on me by myself but by others. I'm happy, however, that you seem to have finally started reading the entire discussion. ObserverToSee 08:38, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's good that you no longer claim it to be a personal attack.--Agha Nader 06:14, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Is this another attempt at humor? Did you read what I wrote? I certainly did see your tone and subsequent accusations as incivility. What have you "exposed" (summary comment) here by the way? If in fact you are assuming good faith, you are misleading here by saying "It's good that you no longer claim it to be a personal attack". Even if merited, there was no "claim" by me that this was a personal attack. Why do you need to resort to this distortion? [[User:|ObserverToSee]] 15:30, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
I have pasted below a conversation that was edited and censored by Arcayne [13]. I guess he did not like facing the answer I gave to his question (the ArbCom quote). I provide the conversation in whole and uncensored.--Agha Nader 04:06, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Stalking
Please don't accuse me of stalking, as it is considered acceptable to monitor users who seem to be making bad faith edits. It seems that you have made several bad faith edits in which made personal attacks against me and fellow editors. Furthermore you have deleted some of my edits, and those of Khorshid's in several talk pages. As you must know by now, ill-considered accusations are not tolerated on WP. Cheers. Agha Nader 03:03, 8 April 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
Hmm, I'm not sure what edits of yours and Khorshid's I have deleted, Agha. Perhaps you could provide me Diffs for this (excluding your uncivil remarks to me on my Talk Page which, which were removed as per the instructions of the text box at the top of this page).
Perhaps you could point out these edits that - in your opinion - are bad faith edits. Just provide the Diffs please. As well, if you could cite a Wikipedia policy that excuses stalking behavior under the pretense of monitoring so-called edits. I eagerly await your response, Nader. Arcayne(cast a spell) 03:47, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You bastardized Khorshid's edit in this edit [14]. And you admit to removing a comment I made on this talk page because it was in bold. Various users have called this "silly". You have called me a "Petulant, vengeful children", which is a bad faith edit. In this discussion [15] you have sniped me, and Dmcdevit admonished you: "Please do not refer to other ediors you disaree with as vandals, as this is uncivil". Furthermore, to your accusations of harassment he responded "The proper response to harassment is not response in kind." As you can see you have made many bad faith edits. You said I "work to undo edits that that challenges [my] nationalist view". The accusations go on and on. Including the accusation of stalking. You accused me of having a "merry little band", You accuse me of having a "frail post-Persian psyche". Obviously these are bad faith edits. Even though I have not edited on other article that you edit, you say I stalk you. This will not be tolerated. Cheers. Agha Nader 17:03, 8 April 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
Gosh, so many accusations, and yet, so few diffs. Let's look at these individually (for the sake of the viewing audience), shall we?
The first instance is when I removed a bold-text formatting to comments that were unmistably uncivil. When the editor chose to renew them, I didn't argue the point, as other editors did it for me.
The comment I removed from you on my talk page is entirely within my purview, Agha; had you sinply followed the instructions at the top of my Talk Page (wherein I state the at rude or uncivil posts will be delected immediately), it would not have been removed. I am not the only editor to do this. Consider yourself fortunate that my tolerance for rudeness is as high as it is, as I could have simply decided that you had nothing constructive to offer, and simply write you off as strident noise. I allow your posts to remain on my page, because I keep hoping you will finally grasp the concept of good faith far better than it would appear you have done to date.
I have not called you a "vengeful" or "petulant child", Agha; the reason you did not present a diff for this accusation is that you could not find a single instance of when I referred to you - or anyone else - as such.
The last diff you offer is a statement to request a review of a block of a highly skilled editor. You were the one who submitted the 3RR complaint, so naturally, your motivations are going to come into question. As you have had some issues with assuming good faith, and had violated the Assumption of Good Faith to the point where I could not excuse bad conduct, the comment was warranted.
(no Diff provided) "work to undo edits that that challenges [my] nationalist view". Did I say tht about you? Did I accuse you of posessing a "frail post-Persian psyche"? I think not, and your failure to provide a Diff indicating such means you know how weak that accusation is. I don't even know what nationality or ethnicity you are, and quite honestly don't care. To assume that I base my edits on ethnicity is ferociously bad faith, but as usual, I will fogive you your insult. If you didn't make mistakes, how would you ever learn?
(again, no Diff provided) As for the "merry little band comment", that was intended for those editors who appeared to have almost extra-sensorally addressed and supported each other's edits, leading a great many editors to wonder if the effort was coordinated outside of normal channels say, by private email. I am not saying that this is necessarily true,Agha - I merely reflected upon what other editors had observed.
Lastly, you yourself have admitted to following my edits around. You say you are making sure that my edits aren't tendentious (or some such thing), again an assumption of bad faith and a contentious remark. My properly identifying this behavior as stalking is an observation, not a contention.
So, all these bad faith edits you say I make about you, and all you have are three diffs? Please feel free to respond with better examples of how I have personally insulted you. Be advised, though, that when you do so, I will have prepared a fairly comprehensive list of your contentious, bad faith remarks. I am guessing my list will be somewhat longer than yours. -Arcayne(cast a spell) 17:49, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
N.B. User Arcayne has changed the header of this section, even though I created it. The original header was "Stalking". Please see [16]. His edit summary was "May talk page - if I wish to change contentious edits, or headers, I will." This is another example of a adulteration of my edits. This is very misleading since I never accused him of stalking me, which the changed header "Who's Stalking Who?" implies. This is another bad faith edit. Agha Nader 19:28, 8 April 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
To quote imaginary character Inigo Montoya, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." You might want to revisit the article on bad faith edits. You come to my page, makes scads of either unsupported or nonexistent accusations, add a header called stalking, and expect me to simply expect me to accept its implied accusation? I think not. Now, I am going to politely ask to simply go away now. You've already had one RfC blow up in your face, and you are within a feltch-monkey's whisker of being on the recieving end of one yourself. Take the hint and kindly go find someone else to pester for mentoring. I think we're done here Arcayne(cast a spell) 21:56, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
User Arcayne asked "As well, if you could cite a Wikipedia policy that excuses stalking behavior under the pretense of monitoring so-called edits." This user should read WP:STALK. ArbCom decision referred to in WP:STALK states
"It is not acceptable to stalk another editor who is editing in good faith. (Note that everyone is expected to assume good faith in the absence of definite evidence to the contrary.) Once an editor has given reason to suspect bad faith, monitoring is appropriate, but constantly nit-picking is always a violation of required courtesy."
User Arcyane should stop accusing me of stalking. Agha Nader 04:15, 9 April 2007 (UTC)Agha Nader[reply]
Accusation of racism
Your edit here was an unacceptable personal attack. You will retract and apologize for the comment, or I will escalate the matter. It was precisely the wrong button to push with me, and you had best believe that I will escalate the matter if an apology is not immediately forthcoming. Owing to whatever time difference there is between myself and you, i will allow you 12 hours, after which time, i will see you blocked or gone. Do not think to test my resolve in this matter, Nader. - Arcayne(cast a spell) 05:45, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Prejudice comments by Arcayne
"...your problems likely run deeper than nuclear instpections and snagging up Brits", [17]
Arcayne later claimed he was talking to the Iranian government, but could not explain why he was talking to the Iranian government on my talk page. You will see further examples of him saying he was referring to other people when he is attacking me.
Accusing me of being a "nationalist" is also a personal attack. You stated: "I say unfortunate because, when he isn't pushing a nationalist point of view, he can perform very good edits. Where his nationalism comes into play, he becomes somewhat narrow-visioned"
Finally, I you provide no reason that those sources are unreliable (except that they have spelling mistakes). Given your past history of prejudice towards Iranians, I believe your dismissal of those sources is based on prejudice. My criticism was against your argument (that it is based on racism) I did make a personal comment (much less an attack). You should apologize for your prejudice comments.--Agha Nader (talk) 06:11, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well, seeing as you are willing to remove/conceal my responses to your allegations, I think perhaps you are going to be waiting quite a long time for your apology, as I've never made a racist comment to, about or anywhere in the vicinity of the Iranian people.
You've had ample time to do the things I have asked of you to prevent what happens next. I am sorry you did not avail yourself of them. - Arcayne(cast a spell) 14:21, 12 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Re Perhaps you might wish to assist this user
Because, quite frankly, my patience has run out. After about a month of uncivil behavior, Agha Nader decided to post that I was a racist. I have offered him the opportunity to retract his statement and apologize within the next 12 hours. If an apology is not forthcoming, I will escalate the matter. I have tolerated the incivility in the 300 and Persian Gulf articles, and even went along with him submitting wikiquette complaint based on a failed RfC he could not file over 6 months ago. You seem to be able to reach him in a way that I never have. As an admin, you can perhaps advise him that the shit will indeed hit the fan if that apology doesn't arrive in the alloted time. - Arcayne(cast a spell) 05:57, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have responded to Arcayne's complaint on my talk page [18]. Also, I filled the wikiuette report because it was the next step in dispute resolution. I was unable to report a RfC because it not reached that step yet. However, as you will see on my talk page, Arcayne has made prejudice comments in the past. I merely pointed out his most recent one.--Agha Nader (talk) 06:15, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I would encourage you to visit Nader's page and see that response, FayssalF, and maybe take a look at the wikiquette complaint as well. Pay particular attention to the diffs he lists, so as to see the context of the comments he attributes to myself and others. I'e made it clear in my reply to his response that further accusations do not constitute an apology, and that the clock is still ticking. Actually, it isn't, as he is aware of the personal attack and apparently isn't considering apologizing. I will allow the full remaining time. He may come to realize that it will only escalate if an apology is not forthcoming. - Arcayne(cast a spell) 06:49, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ok guys. Thanks for letting me know about that. Well, first, let me tell you both that i've just seen 'the Random Acts of Kindness Barnstars' (Arcayne's userpage) and 'the Original Barnstar' (Agha Nader's userpage). This means that you both are an asset for Wikipedia and it's a pity that things are not working great for you. It is true that Nader should have avoided the accusation of racism at your talk page. We just don't fix problems that way. There are plenty of ways to sort issues out and both of you know a lot about that. On the other hand, setting an ultimatum for an apology is inappropriate itself. So what i am suggesting is that you go through formal mediation. If you think that would be a waste of time than you must forget about dealing w/ eachother for at least a period of time until everyone cools down. You may also consider a short break from editing those articles and let third parties help you instead (Wikipedia:Third opinion). But before that let's delete User:Agha Nader/RFC/User:Arcayne. I hope this would restore some of good faith assumption to the table for the time being. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 17:16, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your input. As a good will gesture, I will delete User:Agha Nader/RFC/User:Arcayne. I am not sure how to delete it exactly, so I would appreciate your help. Also, I think that you should take a look at the skeleton page [19].--Agha Nader (talk) 17:43, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your consideration and your gesture to recreate a good faith atmosphere. I've just deleted it. Do you want to delete User:Arcayne/busywork 2 as well? -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 18:05, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate that, too. Will Nader also be withdrawing the wikiquette alert he created based out of that report, as no sense deleting the barn door without also deleting the horse that escaped? How about that apology for the accusation for racism, sitting on the 300 page, as well as its removal/striking-through? I set a time limit on the apology, as these sorts of accusations, untended take on a life of their own. If I choose to vigorously defend myself from the disgusting charge of racism, it is because any reasonable and innocent person would do so. So, I ask, is Nader prepared to remove the wikiquette complaint himself as well as offer an apology and retraction of his accusation? - Arcayne(cast a spell) 01:03, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I will leave it up to you, Fayssal, if you think User:Arcayne/busywork 2 should be deleted. I just thought it would be good to bring it up. Arycane, your recent post on the Persian Gulf discussion was well put. Maybe you would like to incorporate WP:TRUTH into your argument. I think some editors believe that the purpose of a Wikipedia article is to promote 'the truth,' and therefore believe the Arabian Gulf should not be included. It is important to point out to them that our main goal is to provide, without bias, the main views (even if they are wrong).--Agha Nader (talk) 06:43, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think he meant that for me, Nader - as you don't really get to determine what is on my user pages. As for anything else you might have to say to or about me, it will be completely ignored without a retraction of your wikiquette alert and your accusation of racism with apology. Consider this your very last chance to do so. You will not like what happens next if you refuse to do so. It is not a threat, it is an expectation of your reaction to my next activity in regards to you. For your sake, you very much want to seriously consider doing as I ask. This really is your last chance; believe that I will take the next step, and am offering you the opportunity out of civility. - Arcayne(cast a spell) 07:09, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Arcayne, please don't set ultimatums. Agha, could you please retract the wikiquette alert? As for User:Arcayne/busywork 2, i must say "Yes, I believe it doesn't serve for anything except for keeping the situation heated". Regards. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 17:06, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Fayssal, I will retract the wikiquette alert if you think it is the right thing to do. However, I recommend that you look over it first [20] and consider my complaints. Also, Arcayne has filed an ANI [21]. --Agha Nader (talk) 15:56, 12 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You were asked to remove the wikiquette alert numerous times by myself, which you chose to ignore. Apparently, you chose to wait and see if I would file a complaint. It does not go without notice that your sudden acquiescence to the idea of removal comes an hour after the AN/I report was filed and only five minutes after you posted your reply, which sounded not the least bit conciliatory. If you remove the wikiquette alert and apologize for the accusation of racism, that will put you back on the path. I think I've made that clear. - Arcayne(cast a spell) 17:39, 12 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I am sure you want the wikiquette alert to be retracted. However, I am not sure it is the right thing to do. I filed the alert for a reason. I wanted the community to become aware of your behavior, which I perceive to be a problem. If you think your behavior has been good, then you have nothing to fear.--Agha Nader (talk) 18:08, 12 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
So, if I called you a thief or a child-molester, and you are innocent, you would have no problem with the accusation? Please. I wanted the community to be more aware of your behavior, which i know to be a problem with myself and others. You have already been told that your behavior isn't good, and have been notified accordingly. It is my singular hope that you will learn from it, and not cause yourself further problems. - Arcayne(cast a spell) 18:30, 12 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
December 2007
This is your only warning. The next time you make a personal attack as you did at Talk:300 (film), you will be blocked for disruption. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. I encourage you to please review WP:CIVIL and attempt to maintain civility when communicating with other editors at all times. Remember, this is a collaborative project, so insults and incivility help no one. Thank you.Ioeth(talkcontribsfriendly) 14:52, 12 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I would appreciate it if you could keep your distance from and try hard not to refer to my edits in Talk:Persian Gulf, please. You have a fairly long road to go before you can convince me that you know how to be more polite, and I would prefer not be colored with the same brush that you have earned in the Persian Gulf article. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation. - Arcayne(cast a spell) 05:10, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Are you aware that I started the discussion on Persian Gulf that you joined?--Agha Nader (talk) 05:35, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and a right bag of ripe that descended into before I (and others) showed up. Due to actually talking to people, and not treating them the way that others have noted you have, we might be fairly close to solutions. Until you do the things asked of you, you haven't earned the right to class your responses alongside mine. make an effort to do the right thing, and you will find a world of difference. Until then, just stay away. - Arcayne(cast a spell) 07:30, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please do not make ill-considered insinuations. I will remove any further insinuation from this page.--Agha Nader (talk) 09:13, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please do not make uncivil comments either. Such as saying I 'look silly.' I have removed your last two comments that I believe were uncivil and ill-considered insinuations. You are more than welcome to leave civil and productive comments on my page.--Agha Nader (talk) 20:32, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have removed your latest comment where you made another ill-considered accussation: "You cannot be seen to be wrong or chastised by people." Please remain civil and refrain from such accussations. Also, do not stalk me. There is an ArbCom ruling against wikistalking. I am referring to your comment "I will now be watching."--Agha Nader (talk) 21:41, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And watching I will be. As I think you once said, about 6 months ago in the 300 article when i asked why you were stalking my edits, you said you were doing so because bad faith gave you the right to. I am exercising my right, considering the bad faith you have demonstrated. If you behave, I will likely grow bored and remove you from observation. - Arcayne(cast a spell) 21:37, 16 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ashura is not offensive !
Hi! in Iranian folklore, you mentioned that the Ashura can not be considered as a folklore ceremony and counting it as "folklore" is offensive. I'm a Shia myself and respect it so much. I don't think the interpretation of ordinary people of the Imam Hussein martyrdom is offensive... the folk show their respect for him in their own way: In Iraq, they make a "boat" for Hazrat Ali-e-Akbar and decorate it with candle lights, but in Iran, they don't do it but use "Taziyeh" and other ways of showing respect, I'm sure they have their own way of mourning for this great persons. By mentioning the way of local folkloric mourning I'm showing how many people respect their religious Heros.Don't you think it's better not to delete it?--Alborz Fallah (talk) 10:20, 16 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Calling the martyrdom of Ashura folklore can be offensive. Religious beliefs are rarely called folklore. Anyhow, you can include Ashura in Iranian folklore if you have a source that says Ashura is a folklore. --Agha Nader (talk) 18:29, 16 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Just to let you know a discussion over the inclusion of "Arabian Gulf" in the lead of Persian Gulf has been opened over at the meditation cabalhere. You are welcome to add your viewpoint to the discussion; as mediator, I look forward to a speedy conclusion to the case, and your input will help. CloudNine (talk) 20:59, 16 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
![[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Nader_Shah_Jewels_3_-_edited.png){kind=link}
