User talk:Debresser

What I do on Wikipedia.

My rewards.

What's up?

I mainly follow up on pages from my watchlist, occasionally adding new pages to it that spiked my interest.

I am happily busy with my beloved wife, Miriam. Add daughter: Channa. And son: Aharon. Add daughter: Sheina Chava And Rivkah.

Can you help identify these favicons?

I would like to make a little personal use of this talk page.

I collect favicons. I have over 8,000 of them. A few of them are my 'orphans': I do not know the sites they came from.

I you think you could help, and want to do me a big favor, please have a look at them.

My 'orphan' favicons

Thanks! Debresser (talk) 17:09, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Have you tried using Google Images' search by image function. benzband (talk) 17:45, 29 August 2012 (UTC) _{Please leave me a {{talkback}} if you reply}

Yes. But thanks for the suggestion. Debresser (talk) 18:20, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

• I now have over 10,000 favicons, and the number of orphans is down to 11! Debresser (talk) 00:56, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Special characters

{{Help me}} Just like & #123; gives {, I would like to know how to make [,], and '. Where is there a list of these things? I looked, e.g. in Wikipedia:Special_character, but didn't find what I am looking for. Debresser (talk) 12:57, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

http://www.degraeve.com/reference/specialcharacters.php --Closedmouth (talk) 13:04, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. Isn't there anything on WIkipedia? Debresser (talk) 13:11, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

If there is, it's well hidden. --Closedmouth (talk) 15:21, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

List of XML and HTML character entity references ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 13:35, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Nishidani is back - personal comment

As User:No More Mr. Nice Guy already said: "Nishidani regularly says he's quitting Wikipedia or putting himself under self-imposed topic bans. Those things never materialize."[1] It is a shame some people don't stick to their word. Debresser (talk) 15:09, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Well, what did you expect? A month and a day later, he's back with some ridiculous self-indulgent story trying to justify what we all knew would happen. Don't forget to link to the diff where he said my prediction that he'll return was false [2]. Amusing, although not surprising. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 22:42, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Interesting, Nableezy admits to conspiring with Nishidani.[3] Debresser (talk) 16:06, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

Nishidani has admitted he communicates with Nableezy by email, so that whole thing is just for show. The public offer to meatpuppet was an amusing touch. "You let me know and I'll take care of them" - what a tough guy lol. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 18:26, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

That is an interesting way to put it. It was more of a instead of losing your temper on some hypocritical or otherwise poor editor to tell me where the problems are. So that the hypocritical or otherwise poor editor can be reported and hopefully banned, and not the other way around. nableezy - 19:18, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

Which is still not okay, in my understanding of how Wikipedia should work. Everybody should make their own mistakes, and editors should not team up. By the way, welcome back to my talkpage, Nableezy. You have always been an esteemed guest here. Debresser (talk) 17:46, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Sneer. [4]

AE

Note, Huldra (talk) 23:46, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Seriously? Nishidani is back only two days, and already he has managed to escalate things? Or is somebody trying to take revenge for his month-long ban? Debresser (talk) 00:45, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Actually, I filed this report, contrary to what Nishidani advised me to do. And you still insist on blaming him? Huldra (talk) 23:59, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

It is clear that he was the polarizing editor in this case. No personal issues with you for reporting me, of course. Debresser (talk) 04:31, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

1RR

The page Israel is under 1RR restriction, if Im not mistaken this is one revert to one page within 24 hours. I suggest you self-revert since you already have an open case at ARBCOM. The correct thing to do would have been to start a discussion on talk instead of edit warring. Seraphim System ^(talk) 02:05, 16 July 2017 (UTC) Seraphim System ^(talk) 02:05, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

The reason to use more careful language here is because a lot of people will not realize that this area has been inhabited a long time before the term "Israel" appeared in literary traditions, so it is for emphasis and clarity. Expert sources like the Journal of the Israel Prehistoric Society do not use the term "Israel" at all, they call it the Levant. It is a pre-history periodization issue, and we should obviously follow the expert source here, because they are considered "Levantine Neanderthals" or "Levantine homo sapiens" [5] Im not sure the neanderthals are discussed, but a brief mention of them could be added as well. Either way, it would be better to also be specific that this area is called "the Levant" when discussing this period, it would probably be less awkward to not mention Israel at all (obvious we can't say the Levant, now modern Israel, because the Levant describes a much larger geographic area.) Seraphim System ^(talk) 02:40, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

You are right, self-reverted. Although content-wise you are wrong, and if you do not fix it, I will definitely revert you after 24 hours. The article says clearly, and more than once, "Israel", so there is no reason to say "considered Israel". Debresser (talk) 04:49, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Thinking back early this year....

I saw the AE request against you. After seeing statements about you, I am a little worried about what will happen to you, but... I won't comment at AE yet. I think you are a very valuable contributor to the topics that you have been interested in. Thinking back at Talk:Yitzhak Rabin#Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 February 2017, you seemed cooperative, even when you and I disagreed. Now I'm uncertain, but I hope things will be okay, and I hope you can get along with others, right? --George Ho (talk) 00:21, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for posting here. As you can see, even while this WP:AE post was opened, the article and talkpage discussion are developing. I think that I am a positively contributing editor rather than not. Which does not mean that I agree with the way some editors behave and push their personal points of view on Wikipedia. Debresser (talk) 04:30, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

I read the results. Sorry about the t-ban. I think some wikibreak during the time span would benefit you unless you like to seek other unrelated topics. Thoughts? --George Ho (talk) 08:20, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

As you can see, I have edits in other areas as well. On my watchlist, the IP-area is only about a quarter-third of my daily entries. Debresser (talk) 10:34, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Notice that you are now subject to an arbitration enforcement sanction

The following sanction now applies to you:

Debresser is banned from all edits and articles related to the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly construed, for two months

You have been sanctioned for personalising disputes, personal attacks and battleground behaviour

This sanction is imposed in my capacity as an uninvolved administrator under the authority of the Arbitration Committee's decision at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles#Final decision and, if applicable, the procedure described at Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions. This sanction has been recorded in the log of sanctions. If the sanction includes a ban, please read the banning policy to ensure you understand what this means. If you do not comply with this sanction, you may be blocked for an extended period, by way of enforcement of this sanction—and you may also be made subject to further sanctions.

You may appeal this sanction using the process described here. I recommend that you use the arbitration enforcement appeals template if you wish to submit an appeal to the arbitration enforcement noticeboard. You may also appeal directly to me (on my talk page), before or instead of appealing to the noticeboard. Even if you appeal this sanction, you remain bound by it until you are notified by an uninvolved administrator that the appeal has been successful. You are also free to contact me on my talk page if anything of the above is unclear to you. GoldenRing (talk) 07:57, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Seeking input from a wider group of editors is good; classifying the input of those already involved based on their perceived politics or ethnicity is not. Don't do it. GoldenRing (talk) 07:59, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

When an article relates to the Israeli-Palestine conflict, and all editors commenting are members of WP:WikiProject Palestine, then it makes imminent sense to ask for input from editors who are members of WP:WikiProject Israel, and forbidding to do so does not sound fair. Debresser (talk) 19:26, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

By all means seek input from other WikiProjects. Editors do that all the time. When you do so, don't tell those who have already commented that you think they all belong to an anti-Israeli faction and their opinion needs balancing out; that is personalising a dispute and battleground behavior. If you can see why that's battleground behavior (as you say at AE that you can) then I'm not sure exactly what you're objecting to. Appealing is absolutely your right and I won't discourage you; but when your appeal essentially admits the facts and my interpretation of them and only adds that others were bad too and you think I was hasty, what do you think you're going to achieve? AE action is unilateral; would you have preferred I leave it open for another admin to hand out an indefinite ban? It was certainly on the cards (and may still be, thanks to your appeal). GoldenRing (talk) 22:54, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment. Basically we both think we are right. That happens.

Any ban of me from this area is a loss for Wikipedia. I make valuable contributions, the net results of which far outweigh any minor perceived violations. But whatever admins will decide. I have never been too impressed with Wikipedia justice.

I personally like contributing to Wikipedia, making all this knowledge available and in the correct way, for almost ten years now. But I do have other things to do in real life, so if my contributions are not appreciated, I will be just as happy to do something else with my life. Debresser (talk) 05:40, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Notes for after end of topic ban

[6] This tag is not needed: the facts are clear, and the reasons need not be specified, especially not in the lead. Debresser (talk) 15:31, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

This edit not simply replaces one source by another, but replaces a clear statement from the official website of the subject of the article, with an opposite statement by some POV academic of ill repute. Debresser (talk) 21:14, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

D. I don't think it wise to comment on I/P edits like this, publicly challenging edits you disagree with in a topic area you are supposed to stay clear of.Nishidani (talk) 21:32, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi, Nishidani. That is an interesting suggestion. I was acting on the assumption that the restriction does not apply to my talkpage. Much like blocked editors can still (usually) edit their talkpage. Like I did here as well. Do you have any idea if this question has been asked before? Debresser (talk) 10:29, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Dovid. I am not a technical expert, so you should ask an arb. But I did drop the note because I was involved in the issue that led to your sanction, and feel under a moral obligation to alert you. The note was preemptive, in the sense that I wished to nip in the bud forseeable temptations by any other editor to take such talk page I/P comments to AE. Nothing stops you from compiling notes in a file you can upload when the 2 months have expired. I would assume however that 'commenting' on edits made and expression your view as to why they should be reverted, could be read as signaling to editors to act as meatpuppets. That is surely an unintended possible consequence of using your wiki page to kibitz I/P edits, wholly unintended no doubt, but it's in your best interests not to 'feed the beast', as they used to say.Nishidani (talk) 11:19, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Since no editors have acted on my two posts here, as far as I know, that worry does not seem to be an issue. Debresser (talk) 15:40, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

It really all depends on the admin viewing your page or the AE complaint against you. But in general, a TBAN covers the whole of Wikipedia, including talk pages and you may also be seen as trying to get proxy editors, which is also bad. But you should get clarification from GoldenRing since his ban comments are not clear as most other admins use. Sir Joseph ^(talk) 15:10, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Good suggestion. I'll ask him. Debresser (talk) 15:40, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm with Sir Joseph on this, Dovid. (The one possible on-wiki work-around might be that you could create a "notes" subpage, not have any links to it, and not tell anyone else about it, so that it really remains functionally equivalent to the file Nishidani described above. But I'd get advice on that, too.) StevenJ81 (talk) 16:00, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure what was unclear in my wording - "all edits and articles" means all edits and articles. There is no exception for your talk page. You should avoid the topic altogether for the duration of your ban, not watch it from the sidelines. So yes, the edits above are a violation of your ban. You can find the relevant policy here; it specifically mentions user talk pages. I'm not going to do anything about it right now, though any other admin who happens by could well take another view and they shouldn't regard this comment as an AE action that they can't undo. Thank you for asking for clarification, but leave the topic alone, please. GoldenRing (talk) 16:32, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Kosher foods

Please stop removing valid good faith edits on the Kosher foods article. This isn't your personal encyclopedia. Both trichinosis and pigbel (CNE) are diseases which affect Kosher foods. Links to these other pages could *literally* save someone's life. Wikipedia is based on the concept that anyone can add good faith content. Except that isn't true with guys like you around, is it? Stop being an over-protective asshole and let the process work. If someone is initiating and edit war, it is you. WP:BATTLEGROUND WP:POINT — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.54.0.181 (talk • contribs)

WP:GOODFAITH — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.54.0.181 (talk) 17:38, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) That comment was absurd. If you had added those links to a dozen other food articles at the same time as "Kosher foods", you might have been able to make a case—although I suspect that you'd always violate WP:WEIGHT. But to put it only in that article displays a clear agenda that is simply inappropriate. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:32, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Which was my point precisely. Debresser (talk) 15:24, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Rosh Hashanah LaBehema

Can we please talk about your massive reversal of a ton of work I put into expanding this stub page (and without any discussion)? I'm sure we can come to some amicable agreement in which the majority of my edits are not simply obliterated. Thank you! -Aharon (talk) 15:58, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Sure. That will be in another 26 hours, though, as I keep the Shabbat. To start in the mean time: 1. moving this article from its proper name is unacceptable 2. per WP:UNDUE you should not give so much weight to a modern revival (which, by the way, I had never heard of yet). Debresser (talk) 16:12, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. A gut shabbes and if you are reading this motsei shabbes, a gut vokh. re: 1) I will concede on this point even though in the Mishna, it's Rosh Hashana L'Maaser Behema, and that those who actively observe this festival today are calling it a number of names including RH LaBehemot, RH L'Baalei Chayyim, and Alef b'Elul. Suggestions to how to best articulate the diversity of alias names is welcome. Rosh Hashana L'Maaser Behema is certainly not the only Jewish holiday/festival to be known by different names. re: 2) respectfully, this modern revival is a matter of public, published record, thus the references to articles from the JTA, Forward, etc., making this revival notable per notability guidelines. I'm not saying my edits can't be improved - shgiyot mi yavin ministarot nakeni. Please help to improve them (rather than delete them outright). Thank you. -Aharon (talk) 16:29, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

WP:UNDUE... Debresser (talk) 18:10, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

By the way, would Wikipedia's Tza'ar ba'alei chayim article be of interest to you? Debresser (talk) 18:27, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

I'll take a look, thanks! -Aharon (talk) 01:43, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

I noticed that Rosh Chodesh Elul redirects to Rosh Hashanah LaBehema. That might not have been obvious when you removed mention of the shofar blowing on Rosh Chodesh Elul from the page, along with other related details relevant to Rosh Chodesh Elul. It seems to me that those details are relevant. (In any case, thank you for your work on this page! Chodesh Av Tov!) -Aharon (talk) 01:43, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

That a good point. Let me think about that. Feel free to post your ideas here to discuss them. Debresser (talk) 21:04, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) @Aharon: I have to admit that I didn't fully understand why you included the items around heshbon hanefesh and shofar blowing in the earlier draft that Debresser substantially reverted. Obviously, that all does happen on Rosh Hodesh Elul. But in order for that to relevant to this article, you'd need to make a tie between those items and the specific issues around Rosh Hashana LaBehema (or whatever we're going to call it). For what it's worth, it's a nice idea to picture a parallel between the process of tithing animals and the idea of everyone passing before HKB"H like sheep on Rosh Hashanah. But to include that in this article, I think you'd need a pretty specific source to suggest that the reason heshbon hanefesh and shofar and selihot in the Sefardi world start on RH Elul is because of Rosh Hashanah LaBehema on that date. I'm inclined to think that it's a congruence of timing, no more. StevenJ81 (talk) 22:52, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

In my studies of Masekhet Rosh Hashanah and Bekhorot, I think the connection is there and fairly clear, if obscure. But that is not the point. As Debresser has correctly shown, the danger is in presenting these insights without transgressing the Wikipedia's original research policy. It's a very easy line to cross, especially when providing details on obscure topics. I really take that to heart. I think probably the elegant solution would just be to create a new section on Rosh Chodesh Elul to include the Rosh Chodesh Elul content. -Aharon (talk) 07:15, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

I think we're saying something similar, and that's especially true if you start introducing a statement of (or even a suggestion of) related causality, which is a relatively strong thing to say. If you had a section on "Rosh Hodesh Elul", and then have a source to support a comment like "Rabbi So-and-so notes some parallels between [the RH LaBehema stuff] and [the Hodesh Elul stuff]", then you don't have a problem, because nobody's trying to claim a causal source, only a parallelism. But you're wise to avoid OR like the plague on something like this. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:03, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Agreed. That sounds like we're reaching consensus on a new section, "Rosh Chodesh Elul" with the content StevenJ81 and I suggest. A meta-issue: I think we should consider moving this conversation to the article's Talk page. -Aharon (talk) 09:55, 26 July 2017 (UTC)