User talk:Tenebrae

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For the most recent postings, through Feb. 22, 2007, please see Archive 5 (at right).

Thanks

Hi, thanks for the kind comments; just trying to help out! Kid Banzai 11:30, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Huh?

What are you saying, Tenebrae? Brian Boru is awesome 18:04, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind words but I'm not an admin. Brian Boru is awesome 18:14, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

I appreciate what you put on my talk page. I agree with what you said about the other editors. Sometime people just get caught up in so much of the politics of this place that they lose sight of what is going on, even though they mean well. I am just glad I can be here to provide my, as you put it,"plain-spoken common sense". Phoenix741 13:21, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

PS:I think you should look the the new comment I made on Talk:List of S.H.I.E.L.D. members. Since the Civil War ended the way it did, it might need some major add-ons.

Admin

Why are you not an admin? --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 19:29, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

That is a good question, heck i would support you, if my support would have any weight.Phoenix741 13:20, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

That's flattering beyond words, to hear this from two peers and excellent editors. I'm not sure I have the temperament or the time — it's been weeks since I've been able to write an article, just from the upkeep of my watchlist. But I'm honored by your suggestion, as corny as I might sound. Maybe that would the be logical progression.... With great respect, --Tenebrae 19:42, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Factual error in CfD

In the discussion Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_February_14#Category:Worldcon_Guests_of_Honor, you asserted that "conventions are commercial operations" and that guests are just "whatever celebrity-in-the-field that you can convince to come". These statements are factually untrue (and fairly insulting to both hard-working volunteers and honored guests). Please see the revised Worldcon article for further details. Avt tor 21:35, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for writing. I did go to the Worldcon article. From the number of uncited, "insidery" assertions, it gives the impression of having been largely written by someone associated with Worldcon, rather than an objective editor.

The article really doesn't address the points I brought up. Is Worldcon mounted by a volunteer organization, with no salaried employees? The article doesn't say. Does it have sponsorships? How does it pay for itself every year? The article doesn't say. The point about guests of honor being who is available comes from experience in the profession. I feel badly that my comments were taken personally. Are you associated with Worldcon?--Tenebrae 21:51, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Worldcons have no employees and are entirely run by volunteers with no salaraied employees. If you look at the article, you'll see that they are not-for-profit organizations, very different from a commercial Comic Con or Star Trek convention.Shsilver 22:06, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I have taken your suggestions and expanded the section on committees to explain some of the questions you raised. As a matter of fact, what you are calling "insidery assertions" are stock responses to frequently asked questions; it is exactly because some people distribute their inaccurate impressions that many of us have stock answers. I have no idea what you mean by "experience in the profession"; there is no "profession" of Worldcon organizers other than the informal and self-selected "Permanent Floating Worldcon Committee" (I guess that's another point to add to the article), and certainly science fiction authors would know they don't get paid to go to conventions.

Yes, I have been volunteering at Worldcons for the past dozen years. Although I endeavor to write in a NPOV, I do not claim to be personally objective, but merely informed on the articles I contribute to. When I write on topics about American politics, I write for readers interested in American politics; when I write about Canada, I write for readers interested in Canada, and when I contribute to articles about science fiction fandom, I write for readers interested in science fiction fandom. A very small number of people are contributing to Wikipedia articles of interest to a large audience of fans. Avt tor 22:46, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

You may have been led astray, Tenebrae, by your professional experience with comics conventions, which are much more commercialized and organized under completely different principles. Worldcons are an entirely different affair, operating under an older, all-volunteer paradigm. (I've only been attending them for 31 years, but I am beginning to get the hang of this fandom thing.) --Orange Mike 20:56, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Re:THANKS

Not a problem. That's why they made me an admin, no? Anyway, I watchlisted your userpage in case that vandal returns as a different IP. Keep up the vandal reverting! Heimstern Läufer 05:39, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Reply

Thank you, its always good to see you too. Sorry about not replying about the John Buscema controversy. By the time I checked it out, there didn't seem to be anything of value I could add to the conversation. Stephen Day 02:41, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Quick Question, nothing really important.

Is there a place where people can idk "announce" new user boxes that were made. I am asking this cause well I made this one.

This user is mourning the death of The Star-Spangled Avenger

and well I think it would be cool if they were put on people's user pages now, instead of like 5 months after all they hype is over. I did put it in Wikipedia:Userboxes/Media/Comics but i really don't think people check that page often for updates.Phoenix741 15:06, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Hey i will be the first get up and dance if he comes back. But from what i have been hearing he is dead, and i need to mourn 8-P.Phoenix741 13:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

In Civil War: Initiative, Ms. Marvel says he is alive and hidden. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 23:21, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I heard about that, and well i kept hearing that he is dead, like dead dead, like Ms. Marvel was wrong.Phoenix741 23:47, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Y'know, I gotta tell ya, the way the article is right now (at least at this particular moment!) seems pretty good: States things in a straightforward fashion while taking the particular conventions of comic-book deaths into account. I'm feeling pretty proud of my colleagues and myself -- at least, as I said, at this particular moment! --Tenebrae 00:28, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually i am suprised about the amount of vandaliosm that has happened to this page(as in the lack of it). I would expect people to be doing reverts every few seconds, but it does not seem that bad.Phoenix741 15:55, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

the punisher article

hi!, seems like a lot of personal point of views, verifiability issues and original research has been going on in the article. i would appreciate if you can stop by and have your professional review on the current edits on the said article... †Bloodpack† 02:24, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

sup! thanks for stopping by in the article and the major copy/edits. I would also like to know your inputs regarding the "other version" section of this article. We have the ultimate version in it. Should we also include the 2099 version? or the manga version? i mean, the punisher had a lot of versions. Do you think it should all be included in the article or should we create a "see main article" template? any ideas? thanks! †Bloodpack† 22:18, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

before i forget...

		The Copyeditor's Barnstar
		Thanks for all the support regarding the Punisher article! Hope you're always around to keep the WP:COMIC in top shape ;] †Bloodpack† 22:47, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

re: Sock puppet?

I think it's a piece of "common knowledge" around the Comics Project that he has one or more IPAs (another possibility being 203.46.189.91). The pisser is I don't think he's doing it to sock but due to laziness/carelessness.

I know of at least one other user that does the same thing: User:Basique. He's even gone to the extent of redirecting the the talk page for the IPA he uses (69.136.111.100) to his named account.

But where Basique will at least engage in civil discourse, work with others, and abide by consensus driven decisions, Asgardian seems to be more concerned with forcing his edits, regardless.

At this point I think it may be time to push an admin to long term semi-protect his "protectorate" simply to force the him, or the annom if it isn't him, to actually log in and defend his actions. The protracted, gaming-the-system edit/revert wars is asinine at this point.

— J Greb 03:40, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

If I'm going to go to an admin, I'd like as solid a set of articles as possible. I'd also like a set of IPAs for an inclusive "Checkuser please" request.

I don't want the editor to cry foul when accused of WP:OWN because it's 2 or more "annoms" reverting to "his" version. I also want to have a leg to stand on for widening the semi-protections if he decides to wait it out on his faves.

— J Greb 03:58, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

The case for 211.29.188.167 being a sock puppet is reasonably good. Checking his edit history, all of the articles that IP's amended have also been updated by User:Asgardian. Having said that, Asgardian has edited a lot of Marvel articles and 211.29.188.167 has only made a handful of edits... but, as you say, they're also the same sort of changes... --Mrph 08:08, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Charlie Peace

If you've got a spare second, could you take a quick look at Talk:Charlie Peace? I'd appreciate a second opinion on the best route forward. The character's directly inspired by a real criminal - Charles Peace - and one of the editors who's been working on that article is contemplating merging or moving the comics article to avoid confusion. I think I've suggested something workable, but I may have missed something. Thanks! --Mrph 21:51, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Re:Brooklyn Tech

Hi, Tenebrae, I had a look at that article, and yeah, I can see it's getting defaced by IPs. Still, I'm only seeing about one or two per day most of the time. That's generally not enough to warrant semi-protection, at least in my mind (and I'm pretty sure most other admins would agree with me). For now, it's best just to watchlist and revert. Note that in the future, it's probably better to put this sort of thing at WP:RFPP. That way you don't have to wait for me, as many admins watch that page. Heimstern Läufer 03:09, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Grad school

I got into the Syracuse University S.I. Newhouse School of Public Communications and about an hour ago, I was able to get conditional admission to Ohio U. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 19:48, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Mystic Arcana

Thanks for the vote of confidence; glad to see this English major is finally paying off. ;-) I'm a newly registered user (fan of the site for a while), so what's this WikiComics project, and how do I officially become a part of it? I'm planning a big clean-up of the Runaways, the individual member pages, then Rogue, then the main X-Men page. I know it's not much, but they're my favorite comics.

too much coffee man

Yes, my sentence was ungrammatical (yes, my english is far from perfect), but it's very hard to cite this, even if it's true. In this comics the author used the name "How to Be Happy" for the first time, but from that time (January 2006) all of his strips are named "How to Be Happy". I don't know how exacty can I cite that. --Have a nice day. Running 17:45, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

And this one proves that these two names are the same comics. --Have a nice day. Running 17:46, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

re: Green Lantern

Ack... I didn't see you edit. Sorry about that.

As for the bulk rational... it's more of a reaction to one editor, Sonic Shadow. The editor has shown a long standing disregard for the Comics Project guides on volume numbers and Roman numeral/succession use as well as date formatting. This includes multiple reminders and prodings on his talk page. He also prefers to do "all-in-one" edits.

I've gotten to the point where, instead of hunting through the edit and doing piecemeal reverts with edit summaries (been there, done that to little effect), I'll flat undo/revert if he's included contraventions of the guidelines, and again include the edit summary.

In this case, in "undo" wasn't an option, I reverted and included what I though was the only revision by a subsequent editor. I didn't check before submitting if someone else had also edited the material.

- J Greb 18:00, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

The Initiative cover image

Where are we taking the discussion at this point? The Comics Project Noticeboard talk or the Project general talk? - J Greb 23:50, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

punisher edit

Hi tenebrae, wasup! just dropping by to make a note about your punisher edit particularly this one, about the punisher issue #44. I was browsing the website thepunisher.com and it released the comicbook cover for issue #44. And it made note about the punisher's date of birth printed on the cover. I thought, this issue would be a collector's item so i grabbed a copy. But when i bought the book itself, the punisher's date of birth was removed from the cover, but the site thepunisher.com has a scanned copy of thiss book with the punisher's DOB from marvel itself. Thats why i made a note in that particular section of the article. Let me know if its still notable to mention it on the article or you can try to browse thepunisher.com website, search in the past news (i forgot if its under february or march) then look for the scanned image of issue #44 with punisher's date of birth. Thanks and happy wikiying! †Bloodpack† 22:45, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

thanks for the quick reply! ill try to email the owner of thepunisher.com to verify where "exactly" he took the info, or if marvel still has a news or a scanned image about the issue. But i also have copied the jpeg of that issue, but i know it still needs verification if its just a photomanipulation or if timothy bradstreet really incorporate it in his cover painting. But i recall in the past, he also made some changes in his (tim bradstreet) painting (i forgot what cover issue). Marvel asked him to remove some blood in his painting, but i forgot what cover issue. I'll come back later to give you the image...thanks! †Bloodpack† 23:26, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

hi! its me bloodpack and here it is[1], check out the january 16, 2007 news and look carefully under the punisher's DOB. And i also went to marvel's site [2], but issue #44 doesnt have an image. This one is from punisher-art.com site [3], again it has a DOB, but if you buy the book in the comicbook shop, his DOB is blacked out 203.177.36.184 00:55, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

thanks! laterz ;] †Bloodpack† 04:09, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Ledger reference

Oh, I knew when I added it that the Sci-Fi news citation on Ledger wasn't adequate. I just added as basically an interim reference until I could take a few minutes to go back and find a better one I'd seen before. The one I put didn't take any time to look up because I simply happened to have seen it earlier in the day. If you hadn't added a better source, I soon would have. I appreciate that you cared enough to comment about it, though. I've always enjoyed crossing wiki-paths with you. Doczilla 04:43, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

mack bolan vs punisher

hi! you think we should call a voting for this matter? i dont want to have this escalate in an edit war †Bloodpack† 22:19, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Early Steranko

It seems that Jim Steranko did a comic strip published in a local newspaper called "Houdini" in the 1950's. I wonder if this should be included in his bio? What do you think? I have samples.207.112.42.85 15:24, 22 April 2007 (UTC) Tony Robertson 15:26, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Joker

The edit I made to Joker was in fact on the level. According to DC's July solicits, issue #7 of Batman Confidential will be about the Joker's life before the accident. Here's the blurb - BATMAN CONFIDENTIAL #7

Written by Michael Green, art and cover by Denys Cowan and John Floyd.

What kind of person becomes a Joker? Writer Michael Green (Heroes writer/producer) and classic Batman artist Denys Cowan shed light on who the Joker was before he became the Joker...and how he and Batman crossed paths even before the day he was created.

That's why I added the link in the first place: so it WOULD be verifiable. Ive added it back to the Joker page. Check out the solicits link. Its near the top of the Bat-titles section.SMegatron 08:43, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Ah. Having read through a few other edits made since, and had a look at a few of wikipedia's guidelines, I'd like to apologise for adding that. I was unaware that solicits couldn't be linked to the main site, and was simply trying to word the stuff I put up in a way that wouldn't just have been copying the above solicitation info. Anyway, sorry about that. SMegatron 12:52, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much. However, if its OK with you, there is something I want to ask. Im a member of wikiproject Transformers, and often edit articles about upcoming Transformers comics. However, Ive noticed a few of them have solicits info as references, which you have indicated is against the rules. Is it OK as references, or is it altogether wrong?SMegatron 09:51, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I reaise you're probably busy, but I thought as its comic articles, it might be of interest.SMegatron 09:56, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks again. That's really helpful.SMegatron 14:12, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

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Slightly related to the situation at Whizzer...

I've been slowly working my way into a cleanup of sorts with the Squadron Supreme "family" of articles. Starting with the Whizzer.

At this point I've also worked on Speed Demon to pretty much the same results. Which is a bit more worrying since the editor doing the reverting is insisting that the character's history be split among the 2 articles and jettisoning wholesale the PH.

If you wouldn't mind taking a look there as well...

Also, the jargon laden lead has been placed, by the same editor I believe, in almost all of the related articles. As well, his move of at least one article, Hyperion (Supreme Power) to Hyperion (Squadron Supreme), was done in such a way that it's going to cause more confusion than help.

Thanks - J Greb 16:21, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

To be honest, I left the parantheticals in the sub-heads as an olive branch. Asgardian wanted a format that was redundant and a little oblique. This format was a little better. My preference would be, as you indicate, to leave it at the names. That being said, I have seen cases, Nighthawk is a good one, where the jargon is needed to make each header unique.

- J Greb 17:05, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I hate to ask this in this way, but at what point does an editor's insistence of going back to his last edit constitute WP:OWN? At this point I'm getting sick of the blanket reverts and the condecension that is coming across in the Edit summaries. - J Greb 16:39, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

That, Speed Demon and Doctor Spectrum atm... It setting to the point where I want to say "Fuck it. Fuck the entire damn project." Almost everything I put up, in small sections, gets reverted back to Asgardian's last up load. And the edit summaries he puts up read as "Don't touch this I will fix it. This is mine to tinker with." And adding salt, it seems he has no problem branding others adds as "speculation" and "assumption" while insisting his stay in. It's getting to the point where putting in volunteer effort here is no longer fun or even worthwhile. - J Greb 06:10, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

I'll hang on... and I'll fight the temptation to run through the hour+ it would take me to re-do the small edits again. Though I'm very close to "giving in kind" and doing flat flips.

I can appreciate the time thing, I think I'm a zone west from you.

As for Nighthawk... it looks good. There are a few things though that I'd tweak.

• Alternate versions: To be honest, with the Squadron characters I look at this being things like Earth X or the "King Hyperion" that appeared in Exiles. The rest of them though, those are more or less "mainstream", E-616, -712, -"Supreme Power", or -"Ultimate". I'd put them in publication order. And IIUC for Nighthawk that would be Kyle-616, -712, Neil-712, Kyle-"Ultimate", and Kyle-"Power" w/ "main" link.
• Pull a ref section from say Whizzer, at least to get the cite showing.
• There was a "Notes" section I had put into Whizzer and Blur that took the jargon (Earth designations) out of the lead, PH, and, where Asgadian likes it, the cite section. I really think it should be on all of the Squadron articles that deal with that particular element. An example of one that doesn't need it would be Speed Demon. - J Greb 06:53, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

What is this?

It would be really awful if a great and responsible editor like you were driven off by someone who is, well, not so much.

Now that was dumb. D-U-M-B. Not the way to encourage cooperation. As for "not so much", take a look at what the articles were, and who has done the majority of the work - which includes having to rewrite the PH efforts of our fellow poster, which came complete with spelling errors, POV etc. Do you want someone with the knowledge who is also prepared to sit down for hours and work out the chronology and source it...or not?

Asgardian 08:41, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I'll try to talk to him tomorrow (it's 2:15 a.m. now where I am), and see if I can't edit something that's more of a middle ground. How's Nighthawk starting to seem to you now? --Tenebrae 06:15, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

You have your middle ground, as I have rewritten two PH now. What you may like to think about and then discuss without that condescending tone is the need for certain notes that clarify the matter for new readers. When it comes to the Sinister/Supreme/Power debacle, it cannot be made clear enough...

Asgardian 08:41, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

no problem!

anytime and keep it up! ;) †Bloodpack† 15:14, 26 April 2007 (UTC)