Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Amendment

Arbitration Committee proceedings

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Case requests

Request name	Motions	Initiated	Votes
Persistent WP:IDONTLIKEIT behavior in WP:NCROY discussions		10 May 2024	0/4/0

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Open cases

Case name	Links	Evidence due	Prop. Dec. due
Venezuelan politics	(t) (ev / t) (ws / t) (pd / t)	20 Apr 2024	04 May 2024

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Recently closed cases (Past cases)

Case name	Closed
Conflict of interest management	13 Apr 2024
Mzajac	7 May 2024

Clarification and Amendment requests

Request name	Motions	Case	Posted
Amendment request: Conduct in deletion-related editing	none	(orig. case)	30 April 2024
Clarification request: Palestine-Israel articles 4	none	(orig. case)	13 May 2024
Amendment request: Article titles and capitalisation	none	(orig. case)	13 May 2024

Arbitrator motions

No arbitrator motions are currently open.

Requests for amendment

Request to amend prior case: Eastern European Mailing List (4)

Initiated by Martin (talk) at 20:58, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Case affected

Eastern European mailing list arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)

Clauses to which an amendment is requested

1. Remedy 7

List of users affected by or involved in this amendment

• Martintg (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)

Confirmation that the above users are aware of this request

• N/A

Amendment 1

• [1]
• This is a request to amend EEML Remedy 7 to end the topic ban that applies to Martintg and allow him to edit articles related to Eastern Europe.

Statement by Martintg

In the previous six months I've taken stock, while taking a break to pursue some postgrad study. During that time I've reflected on what went wrong. I joined the maillist primarily as a convenient way to socially network with a bunch of people I've come to know through contributing to Wikipedia. Unfortunately this convenience led members of the list, myself included, into behaviour that crossed the line. This was due to a kind of mob mentality and a sense of hubris that developed along with it. This I regret.

Since December I created some articles on German politicians and political organisations and had sourced a small number of Estonian biographies without any issues (many were not notable so I hadn't bothered with those) after I requested and was granted a relaxation to my topic ban[2].

I had been working on a range of arts and literature topics for Wikiproject Estonia, and had filled in many significant gaps such as Culture of Estonia, along with a lot of related articles on literary figures (for example August Sang, Villem Grünthal-Ridala, Johannes Aavik), movements (e.g. Arbujad, Young Estonia and Siuru) and institutions like Art Museum of Estonia and Estonian Literary Museum. (A more comprehensive list is on my user page). There is still a lot to do, as you can see by the red links in Template:Culture_of_Estonia. Despite my continuing studies I expect to devote a little more of my time than in the past few months, as I do enjoy contributing my free time to Wikipedia, I would like to continue to expand this area.

PS Carcharoth expressed his concern in another request below at the slew of EEML-related appeals at around the same time. The timing of my submission here was based upon the completion of my exams, I was always going to submit a further amendment request at this time. That there happens to be a slew of requests from other people I hope has no bearing on this request.

Statement by other editor

{Other editors are free to comment on this amendment as necessary. Comments here should be directed only at the above proposed amendment.}

Further discussion

Statements here may address all the amendments, but individual statements under each proposed amendment are preferred. If there is only one proposed amendment, then no statements should be added here.

Clerk notes

This section is for administrative notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

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Request to amend prior case: Eastern European Mailing List (3)

Initiated by Miacek 10:29, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Case affected

Eastern European mailing list arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)

Clauses to which an amendment is requested

1. Remedy 20

• [3]
• This is a request to amend EEML Remedy 20 to end the topic ban that applies to Miacek and allow him to edit articles related to Eastern Europe.

• Miacek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)

Confirmation that the above users are aware of this request

• N/A

Amendment 1

Statement of Miacek

As a result of this Arbitration case, I was topicbanned from articles on Eastern Europe. I would like to emphasise, that the overwhelming majority of my contributions has been to the Eastern European topics, in which I have hopefully have some expertise, or just interest.

As I tried to explain during the arbitration case, my active participation in the list was occasional, and I did not ask anyone to edit-war in tandem or to support my POV. It would have been difficult, too, because I happened to disagree with some users on issues of deletion etc. What I was found guilty of and what I cannot deny either was the e-mail I sent to the list, regarding the proposed deletion of an article I created (Derzhava). I will not canvass anyone in the future, nor will I join a list similar to the EEML (that I actually left a few months before it was discovered).

There is another thing that I was listed as guilty of, hence I will briefly have to comment on it [4]. I found it regrettable that this was included as evidence, because I strongly disapprove of sock puppetry, account sharing games etc. This comment was meant as an ironic note, because one of the list members had engaged in exactly this kind of misbehaviour. There was no serious offer: I would hardly want to share an account with Molobo, who has very different interests and POV compared with mine. I also had more or less normal relations with User:Russavia [5], with whom I sometimes disagreed but never considered him a menace, as some users (who were not topicbanned in December) actually seemed to do.

Because of the ban I have had to transfer my activities to Wikipedia editions in other languages, mostly German Wikipedia, with occasional edits to the Russian and Estonian Wikipedias. However, I find all those ('national') encyclopedias rather parochial and hence prefer the English Wikipedia with its more universal approach. During the last 6 months, I have made just over 300 edits here, most of those simple reverts of vandalism (my overall edit count should be around 6300 on en.wiki). Hence, I believe that lifting my ban would be beneficial for the Wikipedia, as I could start contributing to the Eastern Europe topics again. I have not been found guilty of repeated edit warring or POV pushing and will not engage in such behaviour in the future. I have tried to maintain a neutral, not nationally motivated stance on Eastern Europe topics, where pro-Soviet/anti-Soviet, pro-/anti-Russia POVs tend to occur and will do so in the future. I also promise to follow the remedies of the EEML case.

Some plans for the future

• start/translate Zjednoczenie Patriotyczne "Grunwald"
• Kharakhoba (a Russian exclave wihtin Azeri territory)
• Rady Fisch, a Soviet orientalist
• Union of Russian Patriots
• Mi(k)hail Guboglo, a linguist of Gagauz origin.
• post a proposal how we might stop persistent small-scale edit warring at Meša Selimović and find a compromise

Statement by other editors

{Other editors are free to comment on this amendment as necessary. Comments here should be directed only at the above proposed amendment.}

• Assuming the facts stated are correct, I support this amendment - this editor has clearly been more than sufficiently "punished" for very minor wrongdoings, and restricting productive editors is actually punishing not just them, but Wikipedia as well.--Kotniski (talk) 09:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

• It does seem that the sarcasm/irony of that "sockpuppetry" comment in the EEML evidence was lost on some in the heat of the EEML case (and, I'm ashamed to say, I have to include myself in this statement), and in consequence Miacek got a harsher treatment than his actual on-wiki record would have warranted. Bring the crime-fighing dog back! Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:42, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

• Although I am under a ban from commenting on EEML members, I don't really care, I am going to comment here. I support Miacek coming back to editing on WP. When the EEML case first broke, I was disappointed, and somewhat disgusted, that Miacek was part of that group, considering the amount of harrassment I was put under by the group. And I told him so. I have had a good editing relationship with Miacek; I believe that we are both here for the betterment of the project, rather than the propaganda pushing that the EEML partook in, and I am extending an offer to Miacek for him to contact me and we can collaborate on articles of mutual interest for the betterment of the project. As was mentioned on his talk page in December here and as he replied on mine at User_talk:Russavia/Archive_15#RE. So yes, please let Miacek back to normal editing. But Miacek can you please confirm whether you are still a member of the list, because as you know the EEML continued to operate even during the arbitration case, and it is partly my concern that the same underhanded tactics will continue in future, and I hope that we can foster a spirit of conciliation and moving forward, for I believe that the two of us can do this - you were never part of the harrassment against myself and for that I do sincerely thank you. --Russavia ^{I'm chanting as we speak} 01:25, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Further discussion

Statements here may address all the amendments, but individual statements under each proposed amendment are preferred. If there is only one proposed amendment, then no statements should be added here.

Clerk notes

This section is for administrative notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Arbitrator views and discussion

• Allowing a couple of days in case any other editors want to comment, but in the absence of any significant problems in the past few months not discussed above, I am inclined to grant this request. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:39, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
• As things stand, I'd be willing to support. I'll wait for more comments. SirFozzie (talk) 07:32, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
• Recused on EEML.  Roger Davies ^talk 12:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
• Willing to support, per Newyorkbrad. Risker (talk) 08:13, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
• Willing to support, but concerned (per Biophys - comment later removed) at the slew of EEML-related appeals. Sometimes it really is better to wait. Carcharoth (talk) 12:59, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Motion

Remedy 20 of Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Eastern European mailing list ("Miacek topic banned") is lifted.

There being 12 active Arbitrators, the majority is 7. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 20:14, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Support

1. Per most of my colleagues and several of the comments above, in particular FPaS's. This is a remedy that passed 4-2 (!) in a heated atmosphere. I'm not convinced that this particular remedy was justified in the first place, and even if it was I think it's now served its purpose. Steve Smith (talk) 15:47, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
2. Newyorkbrad (talk) 15:09, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Oppose

Recuse

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Request to amend prior case: Eastern European mailing list (2)

Initiated by — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk at 03:04, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Case affected

Eastern European mailing list arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)

Clauses to which an amendment is requested

1. Remedy 3

List of users affected by or involved in this amendment

• Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) (initiator)
• Piotrus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Confirmation that the above users are aware of this request

• Piotrus

Amendment 1

• [6]
• This is a request to amend EEML Remedy 3 to end the topic ban that applies to Piotrus and allow him to edit articles related to Eastern Europe.

Statement by Malik Shabazz

It has been more than six months since Piotrus was blocked and topic-banned. Since his return, he has been productive in other areas of Wikipedia. He has carefully observed the terms of his topic ban and avoided areas related to Eastern Europe.

Piotrus and I have a history. We got off on the wrong foot and found ourselves on opposite sides of edit wars that shouldn't have taken place. Since that time, he and I have mended fences. We've come to respect one another and I consider him one of my "Wikifriends". I was proud to have his support at my RfA.

Before his topic ban, Piotrus was very productive in articles having to do with Poland. He is responsible for 15 featured articles and 15 good articles (including 3 A-class articles) on Poland-related subjects.

In addition to his article-writing, Piotrus was the main force behind WP:POLAND. For a list of the tasks he performed, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Poland/Archive 3#Future of WikiProject Poland - assistants needed. He carried out these duties without asking for any special recognition; his only "reward" was the satisfaction of improving the encyclopedia.

Pursuant to the motion enacted May 5, Piotrus was allowed to "raise issues and discuss improvements to articles otherwise under the ban" at WT:POLAND. I have found his assistance at that page to be invaluable. (Please see WT:POLAND#Piotrus' to do list #1 for examples of what's been involved.) I and a few others have tried to keep up with Piotrus' suggestions, but this represents but a fraction of what should be done for the WikiProject; it is also a very inefficient way of getting things done.

As one example of his noncontroversial editing this year, Piotrus has used his class at the University of Pittsburgh to improve the encyclopedia and try to bring several articles to GA status. (Please see Wikipedia:School and university projects/User:Piotrus/Summer 2010 for details.) He has also become involved to a greater extent with WP:SOCIOLOGY. Since coming back to Wikipedia, he has had two (non-EE) articles promoted to GA and written 15 DYKs.

I believe Piotrus has learned from his mistakes in the EEML case and should be allowed once again to edit in the subject area of Eastern Europe.

Statement by Skäpperöd

Constructive edits to sociology topics, where Piotrus has some expertise, must not be used as a basis for granting Piotrus access to EE topics again, where he used the same expertise in a malicious way for years:

• the 2006 RfC on Piotrus already contained evidence for canvassing and agitation in favour of his group and against his group's targets.
• the 2007 Piotrus Arbcom has acknowledged the battlefield but tried an amnesty solution. This approach has failed and was replaced by the discretionary sanctions of the subsequent Digwuren Arbcom.
• the 2008 Piotrus2 Arbcom (later renamed EED) acknowledged that off-wiki coordination by Piotrus' group is "almost certain", but refrained from passing a respective remedy because it lacked "definitive proof"
• the 2009 EEML Arbcom was equipped with that definitive proof, identified Piotrus as a "ringleader" guilty of cover-up actions, abuse of administrator tools, a "variety of disruptive activities coordinated on the mailing list, including 'tag team' edit-warring (...), abuse of dispute resolution processes (...), proxying for a blocked user (...) and encouraging and advising list members to circumvent Wikipedia policies", and canvassing
• in Nov 2009, a month before the case's closure, Piotrus participated in the Tylman votestacking
• in Dec 2009 Piotrus was identified by Radeksz as still coordinating off-wiki (the months thereafter, he served his block)

There are few editors with a similar record of disruption, which has already caused a huge level of stress and waste of time (add up the kB of the above linked cases for a start). What makes Piotrus' case quite extraordinary is his long-term successful deception, including impertinences such as:

• Piotrus' proposed FoF in the Piotrus2 Arbcom, reading "There is no group (WP:CABAL, WP:TAGTEAM) of Polish editor acting together violating policies and damaging this project. Piotrus is not a leader of such a (nonexistent) group."
• Piotrus' reply to Irpen's offer for a fresh start: "I have not done the things...", "I can promise you I will not 'call in reverts' to create battlegrounds, I will not stack votes with otherwise uninterested meatpuppets, I will not seek to block content opponents..."

The "prolific Piotrus" and the "malicious Piotrus" are one and the same person, and the latter had long enough been free to deceive the project, including Arbcom, hiding behind the first. Skäpperöd (talk) 09:37, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Statement by Piotrus

I have asked Malik to post this request on my behalf, as a representative of WikiProject Poland and an editor familiar with my editing history (both past and present). I believe that Wikipedia is a project build on trust and cooperation among the users, and thus I am heartened that he has agreed to do this; his (and WP:POLAND's) support means a lot to me.

I have learned over the years that no matter how good one's intentions, it is all too easy to fall down a slippery slope. Having seen what happens when one descends this route, I plan on ensuring that errors of the past will not repeat themselves in the future.

It has been about a year since any complaint about my editing was raised (in the arbitration case I am asking to be amended). I have contributed, uncontroversially, to EE-related subjects for years before (including in the 4-month period that the case was ongoing). I have, over the years, till late December, contributed over ~20 FAs, ~20 GAs and ~300 DYKs, roughly ~90% of them in the Eastern European subjects). Even after the case ended, I was able to help out with addressing the BLP issues and then GAing Lech Wałęsa article. Throughout that time, I contributed uncontroversially to Polish Wikipedia, Polish and English Wikisource, and the Commons projects. I have written several GAs and over a dozen DYKs in the past few months on English Wikipedia as well.

I would like to return to my former levels of activity, in my areas of expertise (Eastern Europe), just like after a six months break I was able to resume clean up work for WP:POLAND. I have a nearly finished Poland-history-related Featured Article rusting in my sandbox on Polish Wikipedia. I would like to resume my work on creating the economic history of Poland article. I would like to resume GA work on Juliusz Słowacki. A sample list of further article content subjects I plan to work on is visible on my userpage (usually I go through most of my to-do boxes in few months; obviously they have been mostly frozen since last December). There are also many wikiproject gnomish tasks I cannot help out with (and which are not being carried out) (more "to do" not being done). I often spot vandalism on my 3k+ watchlist, but instead of reverting it I have to report it to AIV or arbitrators I see online, which often means it takes hours between I see vandalism and it is reverted. And being able to answer simple requests from help, including those from sitting Arbitrators, instead of directing them to WT:POLAND, would be nice, too.

On a final note, I'd like to echo Radeksz calls for all editors in Eastern Europe to assume good faith and work collaboratively. This is what this project is about. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 11:37, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Response to Skäpperöd (first and only, I don't intend to engage in discussion on those pages, per the rules here): I am impressed you managed to post your statement so swiftly, even before I managed to post mine. I will just repeat what others have said in response to your comments in other recent amendments: 1) do you have any diffs from this year to bring, instead of rehashing old history? 2) Can you explain how this amendment would damage (instead of helping) the project - i.e. focus on the future, not the past (again...)? And 3) please stop misrepresenting what happened: a) the 2006 (2006, seriously?) RfC had no evidence, but unfounded allegations, not supported by majority of editors b) the 2008 ArbCom finding you cite did not mention any side or editor, you insert "Piotrus' group" without any basis, badly misrepresenting that finding c) I was within my right to vote in that AfD, the vote was not coordinated d) the mailing group, as stated before (including, I am sure, in the evidence archive) was created in December 2008; please stop alleging to the contrary. Lastly: I respect the work you have done in relation to German-Polish history and related subjects, and I'd hope you could see beyond our differences, assume good faith and try to work together with me and others to create a better project, in the spirit of good-faithed cooperation. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 11:37, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Statement by Darwinek

I always perceived a global all-encompassing topic ban on Central and Eatern European topics as too harsh. One can edit or create articles about e.g. Poland or Belarus without any controversy. The current ban prohibits Piotrus to create e.g. even a tiny stub about, say, some Russian economist or Polish river. I think the current ban should be ammended and liberalized. I believe Piotrus will not misuse it and will be of great help to WikiProject Poland, where he was most active in the past. I am sure he learned from his past mistakes and would responsibly use his ability to edit the Central and East European articles again. - Darwinek (talk) 12:30, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Statement by Lysy

If Piotrus served his so far de-facto probation well then it seems to prove that the sanctions did their job, are no longer needed, and in fact are harmful to the project content-wise. However, if the amendment is accepted and the ban is raised, I would suggest asking Piotrus for a parole, to help him remember that he should treat any Eastern-European issues in the same constructive manner as any other articles. Other than that, I'm totally for lifting the sanctions, as they seem to serve no purpose now. As for the Skäpperöd's comments, none of them seems relevant to the recent half a year period that is discussed here as the base for the amendment request. --Lysy^talk 08:30, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Statement by Deacon of Pndpetzim

Essentially Piotrus' argument is: I might realise some of the things that happened in the past are unfortunate, but listen guys, I've been banned from this area for a few months and in those few months I haven't done anything bad in the area. So, obviously the ban is pointless and if you make me serve the ban I was originally given, you are being crueler than you need to be and depriving the 'Pedia of great content.

It is not news that Piotrus did a lot of writing for Polish and eastern European history articles. We knew that when we imposed the ban. The problem we had with Piotrus (or his side-kick Radek for that matter) is not this, nor that we discovered that all the allegations of co-ordinated bullying, edit-warring, wikilawyering and so on which had been leveled at him for years and ignored turned out to be true, but rather that that wasn't even the half of it.

You discovered that email archive, and you acted ... you sent out a message. You can of course be sure that they learned not to be so stupid as to have a email list that size and to record it so zealously. But you actually think they'll stop this kind of thing? Why would they? It was great for them ... and worked well, only trouble was that it leaked. So now that he has been caught and topic-banned, it is to be believed that he therefore saw the moral error of his ways? ;) Yeah, of course. He must have.

But sure, he might have ... he just might have. It is no matter, you guys don't know either way. And as appealing to your conscience as it might be to "give the benefit of the doubt", you have a responsibility to treat the possibility of gross misconduct as seriously as history suggests you should.

Moreover, you have already passed judgment on these offenses, offenses of the highest gravity. Is upholding previous ArbCom sanctions made in the aftermath of a long investigation against a background of rare community outrage really something that needs to trouble us as much as is being suggested? If the previous rulings were just a political show to quell the outrage which existed at the time, then sure you would revisit it after a few months. If you take it seriously otherwise, then overturning or significantly lightening the bans is very brave message to send to future perpetrators of such activity or to those contemplating such activity.

Finally, Piotrus has expertise in sociology and economics, and it is good that he can focus his attention there. It is good that he can focus his efforts there rather than in areas where he has a strong bias and a history of using wiki-gansterism and co-ordinated edit-warring in pursuit of ideological goals, where he has previously conspired to and succeeded by such methods in undermining and circumventing natural wikipedia safeguards like WP:NPOV, WP:BRD, WP:EW and so on. It is however very important for Piotrus to learn ... and for others to learn ... that once you do certain things, Wikipedia will come down on you and you won't get out of it just by waiting a few months and convincing a friend in good standing to make a case for you. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 01:46, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Statement by Charles Matthews

My experience as a past ArbCom member is that Piotrus is rather good at the wheedling tone (which he can employ on behalf of allies, however egregious their shortcomings). As editors, we have met on the site infrequently, but when we did it was shortly after the close of the second Eastern Europe case. My impression was that Piotrus had learned nothing: plain advocacy of a Polish-centred POV, warnings against conspiratorial Lithuanians, and so on. I think the ArbCom should apply here a thought from the old book of remedies, namely that sanctions which create a good editor out of a troublesome one are advantageous to the site. I would oppose varying them until there was evidence of a more profound change of heart. This seems a routine appeal based on the passage of time. Charles Matthews (talk) 08:38, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Statement by Kotniski

As usual, I fully support relaxation of Piotrus' restrictions, which seem to serve no purpose except to deprive Wikipedia of the useful contributions of a very productive editor. Whatever he is supposed to have done wrong, I think it's pretty clear he isn't going to do it again now that all eyes are on him.--Kotniski (talk) 09:56, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Statement by Nihil novi

• The lifting of over-reaching sanctions seems to me the preferable course. Everyone commits transgressions, and these should be monitored for. But one no longer imposes long-term banishments or capital punishment for the hundreds of crimes and misdemeanors for which such drastic sanctions were applied as recently as a couple of centuries ago. Nihil novi (talk) 12:00, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Statement by Igny

My statement seems superfluous by now, but after looking over recent history of Piotrus contributions, and knowing quite well the positive influence Piotrus had on all the usual hotheads in EE disputes, I fully support lifting the sanctions. (Igny (talk) 23:29, 30 June 2010 (UTC))

Statement by Jan eissfeldt

i contributed to the amendment-request in april by raising the point of his university cooperation projects. therefore, i have the feeling that i have the duty to report the review results of his spring-project (may-june):

as long as i can see now, it worked without guideline problems or conflicts and the participants improved social- and political science related articles like periphery countries and great divergence. his project reached the well-established standards in the content- as well as the perspective of civilized behavior, best regards --Jan eissfeldt (talk) 15:20, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Statement by Visor

I fully support lifting these sanctions — his works measured by new articles, high quality articles (FAs/GAs), working around community and overall contribution are really worthy for WP. He will be able to improve many of EE- and Poland-related articles. Piotrus' works will be examined very deeply and all negative aspects will be considered quickly. Visor (talk) 07:50, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Further discussion

Statements here may address all the amendments, but individual statements under each proposed amendment are preferred. If there is only one proposed amendment, then no statements should be added here.

Clerk notes

This section is for administrative notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Arbitrator views and discussion

• I have always thought that some of the remedies in the Eastern European mailing list case swept much too broadly, although my suggestions to this effect (see the proposed decision page in the case) were not agreeable to the other arbitrators. In this instance, I think some relief from the sanction is appropriate at this stage, but I am not sure whether the better course is to lift it altogether (and then closely monitor developments!) or to more narrowly tailor it to the specific areas of conflict. I would appreciate some input on this issue. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:42, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
• Recused on EEML.  Roger Davies ^talk 12:44, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
• My thoughts at this point are not to lift the sanctions in this case at this point, as I am concerned about some things. Possibly another month or two.. SirFozzie (talk) 12:27, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
• Too soon after the last amendment. I would want to give it more time to see how the previous amendment is working out in practice. I would suggest three months between successive amendments, independent of whether other people are submitting amendments as well, and even if we haven't been consistent about this in the past. Having a slew of EEML-related amendments at around the same time sends the wrong signal, in my view. Each previous amendment should be accompanied by a note on the minimum period before a new amendment can be filed relating to that editor, otherwise we get overwhelmed. Carcharoth (talk) 12:57, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
• While I think I've been among the most sympathetic arbitrators to the early lifting of EEML amendments (I just moved my third such motion in the request above, and also moved the two earlier motions narrowing the topic bans), I'm not comfortable doing so here. We're dealing with a long history of problematic behaviour in this case, and also the behaviour of someone who, as a then-administrator, should have known better. I take particular note of the comments of Deacon and Charles Matthews, which I find persuasive. I do not agree with Carch's comments that this amendment request should be rejected purely because a different amendment was recently accepted. Steve Smith (talk) 15:53, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

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