Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Dao: Difference between revisions

Browse history interactively

← Previous edit Next edit →

Content deleted Content added

VisualWikitext

Inline

Revision as of 00:00, 12 April 2017

David Dao

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

I redirected this to United Airlines Flight 3411 but the author wants to fight about here. So here we are wasting out time with an obvious delete. Dao has absolutely no notability outside of the UA incident and that article is undergoing AfD so if it isn't deemed notable enough for inclusion, Dao himself certainly isn't. Justeditingtoday (talk) 20:59, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. A very clear waste of time and space. DBaK (talk) 21:03, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - as per WP:BIO1E "If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate." BlueSalix (talk) 21:04, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment you are leaving out a very relevant part of that guideline - "The general rule is to cover the event, not the person. However, if media coverage of both the event and the individual's role grow larger, separate articles may become justified" Justeditingtoday (talk) 21:08, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (✉) 21:21, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. I think it's too early to tell if we should delete the flight article, but I'm sure this guy doesn't deserve his own article. I think "major role" would imply he had some role in planning out and executing the "event", but no, he was just a dude in the wrong place at the wrong time. And I really wouldn't call this event "highly significant", at least not right now. The biographical details in this article are pretty minor, and him being dragged off is actually the entire event, so you'd, in essence, be keeping two articles of the same thing if this was kept. Nohomersryan (talk) 21:31, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Nohomersryan - do you feel the fact he's a World Series of Poker Pro who has won nearly $250K on the poker circuit over the last ten years, that he was convicted of 98 charges of drug trafficking in 2004 in a case covered at the time by the Louisville Courier-Journal and WAVE-TV, and he was the subject of significant media coverage over the UAL incident in 2017 make this a case of BLP1E? BlueSalix (talk) 23:31, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I don't find the World Series of Poker thing very solid, no. He is not listed anywhere on the 2009 World Series of Poker results page, and that's full of people that have no articles. There are tens of thousands of players in each one, and it's not a very convincing claim of notability, especially since it's sourced to an article about him being pulled off the airplane. The other drug trafficking thing is not that impressive, considering all the sources are local news, and could easily be mentioned in the other article (especially since it's more notable as a "guy pulled off plane has checkered past!!" thing than anything). So yes, I'm sticking with my belief that this doesn't deserve its own article. Nohomersryan (talk) 23:43, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Nohomersryan First, Wikipedia is not RS, second, the sources are not all local which should be apparent on a quick scan of the article had you undertaken one. But it sounds like we've reached the terminus of your interest in productive contribution to this discussion. Best - BlueSalix (talk) 23:50, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The sources of the arrest are directly local from when the event took place, the ones that aren't are in the context of him being pulled off the plane as far as I can tell. Nohomersryan (talk) 23:52, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

So the local RS aren't good because they're only local (a new and novel argument) and the national RS aren't good because they're only national. Makes perfect sense, Nohomersryan. BlueSalix (talk) 23:53, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:BIO1E. At this time, the United Airlines Flight 3411 article suffices to tell the reader about Dao. Binksternet (talk) 21:45, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Only notable for one event, which is itself no way notable enough for multiple articles. AIRcorn (talk) 21:49, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Aircorn - your position is that him being a World Series of Poker Pro who has won nearly $250K on the poker circuit over the last ten years, his conviction of 98 charges of drug trafficking in 2004 in a case covered at the time by the Louisville Courier-Journal and WAVE-TV, and the UAL incident in 2017 are all a single event? BlueSalix (talk) 23:41, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

MERGE - MERGE to United Airlines Flight 3411 (or History of United Airlines) unless individual notability can be established. --Jax 0677 (talk) 21:50, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. I watched the initial post and redirect, and felt that this was a good example of WP:NOTNEWS. Person isn't notable. 2601:188:1:AEA0:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 21:50, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The event is notable, not this person. Gamebuster19901 (Talk║Contributions) 21:55, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:BIO1E. K.e.coffman (talk) 22:13, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete with redirect of name; not notable for stand alone article as Wikipedia is not a newspaper. Kierzek (talk) 22:30, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Kierzek - do you feel the fact he's a World Series of Poker Pro who has won nearly $250K on the poker circuit over the last ten years, that he was convicted of 98 charges of drug trafficking in 2004 in a case covered at the time by the Louisville Courier-Journal and WAVE-TV, and he was the subject of significant media coverage over the UAL incident in 2017 make this a case of BLP1E? BlueSalix (talk) 23:39, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. I saw the news reports and thought, "I hope there isn't a Wikipedia article about this guy" so I searched for it. Only notable for one event. There is no overriding public interest (as in , in the interests of the public to be aware of, rather than something the public is interested in for curiosity value) to justify the loss of privacy for this individual. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 22:32, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to United Airlines Flight 3411, given the notability of the incident, but not the person himself. (Iuio (talk) 22:41, 11 April 2017 (UTC))[reply]
Comment Dao received local coverage back in 2005 from the Louisville Courier Journal, after being convicted for drug-related offensives related to his medical practice. It's ultimately how his identity was confirmed. I'm not sure if it's enough to give him his own page, but the guy in one way or another contributed to a billion dollar loss for United - his connection to the whole story seems notable to me. Comatmebro User talk:Comatmebro 22:45, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. And I voted to keep the article on the flight itself. This man deserves privacy. --Aabicus (talk) 23:01, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Gamed AfD Unfortunately this AfD was heavily gamed - the specific content that would made this not a BLP1E case was deleted immediately after it was opened [1]. Now that 20 delete !votes have snowballed based on editors reading the "massaged" version of the article, it seems like a Speedy is pre-ordained. And that's how we make sure AfDs go the way we want. BlueSalix (talk) 23:09, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Even more reason to delete this article. K.e.coffman (talk) 23:17, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Huh? Please stop removing cited material from the article - as you did here [2] - about his World Series of Poker involvement and his criminal convictions that is cited to RS. Deprecatory information is not a BLP issue when cited to multiple RS. Stop gaming the AfD. BlueSalix (talk) 23:23, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep this is clearly not WP:BIO1E. Dao's drug charges and conviction did receive significant coverage at the time, so he has clearly not only notable for the United Airlines incident.[3][4][5] [6] Furthermore, I am in complete agreement with User:BlueSalix, that the removal of information related to his conviction has tainted or gamed this AfD.--Tdl1060 (talk) 23:24, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Per nom -Drdisque (talk) 23:28, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Drdisque - to clarify, you feel the fact he's a World Series of Poker Pro who won $117,000 in 2009, he was convicted of 98 charges of drug trafficking in 2004, and he was the subject of significant media coverage over the UAL incident in 2017 qualify as a case of BLP1E? BlueSalix (talk) 23:31, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep contra nom. --24.112.201.254 (talk) 23:38, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete the crimes aren't particularly notable. Sad to say, but that sort of stuff happens all the time (relatively speaking). $250k in poker over 10 years is more than I've ever made, but for a professional that doesn't seem like he's too good. $25k a year. Unless there are sources from before the United incident that would satisfy GNG this is a clear case of BLP1E. TonyBallioni (talk) 23:44, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Actually it was $117,000 in 2009 which should be apparent on even a cursory look at the article, TonyBallioni. BlueSalix (talk) 23:52, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I read the article. I was addressing your claim above of $250k over 10 year, which averages out to $25k a year. The article clearly claims total lifetime earnings of $234k, and one year where he earned $117k. That sounds like a bad poker player who had a stroke of luck one year, and is hardly a claim to notability. Again, the crimes aren't notable, just something that caused a stir in the local news. TonyBallioni (talk) 23:57, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Per WP:BLP1E (same thing as BIO1E). epicgenius (talk) 23:45, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

So, epicgenius, you think winning $117K in poker in 2009, being convicted of 98 criminal charges in 2004 in a widely covered case, and the UAL incident, are all a single event? BlueSalix (talk) 23:52, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect either to United Airlines Flight 3411 or to United Airlines. He may not be notable enough for his own Article (at least not yet, he could very well be in the future), but he is notable enough for a Redirect. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 23:55, 11 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect — to United Airlines Flight 3411, an article which I believe should be kept. This man is a minor figure who did not play a part in a very significant event; I think it's notable, but come on. The minor incidents covered here are unconvincing, as they appear to mostly have been significant in one Kentucky newspaper only. There is nothing here that can't be covered in the other article, and it's not particularly lengthy or bursting with coverage that would be undue weight in the aforementioned Flight 3411 article. Also, BlueSalix needs to read WP:STICK and WP:BLUDGEON. Not every opposing argument needs to be pinged and responded to with copy-and-pasted arguments, it's not likely to help your case. Taylor Trescott - ^{my talk} + _{my edits} 00:00, 12 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 42: / Line 42: @@
 ::So, [[User:Epicgenius|epicgenius]], you think winning $117K in poker in 2009, being convicted of 98 criminal charges in 2004 in a widely covered case, and the UAL incident, are all a single event? [[User:BlueSalix|BlueSalix]] ([[User talk:BlueSalix|talk]]) 23:52, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
 *'''Redirect''' either to [[United Airlines Flight 3411]] or to [[United Airlines]]. He may not be notable enough for his own Article (at least not yet, he could very well be in the future), but he ''is'' notable enough for a Redirect. [[User:The Mysterious El Willstro|The Mysterious El Willstro]] ([[User talk:The Mysterious El Willstro|talk]]) 23:55, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
+*'''Redirect''' — to [[United Airlines Flight 3411]], an article which I believe should be kept. This man is a minor figure who did not play a part in a very significant event; I think it's notable, but come on. The minor incidents covered here are unconvincing, as they appear to mostly have been significant in one Kentucky newspaper only. There is nothing here that can't be covered in the other article, and it's not particularly lengthy or bursting with coverage that would be undue weight in the aforementioned Flight 3411 article. Also, BlueSalix needs to read [[WP:STICK]] and [[WP:BLUDGEON]]. Not every opposing argument needs to be pinged and responded to with copy-and-pasted arguments, it's not likely to help your case. '''''[[User:Taylor Trescott|<span style="color:#B6B3FF; font-family: Courier">Taylor Trescott</span>]]''''' - <sup>[[User talk:Taylor Trescott#top|my talk]]</sup> + <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Taylor Trescott|my edits]]</sub> 00:00, 12 April 2017 (UTC)