Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places

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NPS site error (new?), and NRIS reference issue

the scary error message, captured by The Eloquent Peasant

It has been pointed out to me by User:The Eloquent Peasant that readers are getting a scary error/warning message (see screen grab at right) in all the NRHP articles that use the template:NRISref, which is probably more than 50,000 articles! I now get the error too, if I click on "National Register Information System" in the standard reference to NRIS, e.g. as linked from infobox of Hotel Cortez (El Paso, Texas) article.

I further notice that I am getting a similar error message for a Multiple Property Submission NRHP document at https://pdfhost.focus.nps.gov/docs/NRHP/Text/64000837.pdf (also linked from Hotel Cortez article). Maybe this comes up only after I click on the "Advanced" option, i am not sure, but further says "This server could not prove that it is pdfhost.focus.nps.gov; its security certificate is from *.nps.gov. This may be caused by a misconfiguration or an attacker intercepting your connection." and gives me the option to "Proceed to pdfhost.focus.nps.gov (unsafe)". Perhaps if I follow that option, I will no longer experience the issue (i am not sure), but the situation is unacceptable for readers.

Actually if I click on Advanced and choose to go ahead with the risk, I still don't get to the intended webpage, I get instead:

500 - Internal server error.
There is a problem with the resource you are looking for, and it cannot be displayed.

--Doncram (talk) 12:59, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Surely we need to request to the National Park Service technical people, that they should reverse whatever configuration change might have happened, or otherwise fix the security issue or notice. Is anyone aware of when this changed? Would anyone else like to take the lead on contacting them? If not I will try within a few days probably.

Also, I am sick and tired of the awful current version of the NRIS reference. That link from "National Register Information System" tries to go to the NPS page where one could theoretically download the full NRIS database, which no general reader of Wikipedia should ever do, and it is plainly a disservice to steer people to there. --Doncram (talk) 00:03, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

• @Doncram: The first warning/error is because of an invalid SSL certificate. It's not expired, but it's a wildcard for *.nps.gov. It's valid for npgallery.nps.gov, but not https://pdfhost.focus.nps.gov, because that's an additional level deep. A certificate for *.*.nps.gov would be needed. Perhaps they're in the middle of a server reorganization? This should be a relatively easy configuration issue to address. The PDF did load for me after I clicked through, though. Mackensen (talk) 13:25, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

I believe NPS has basically deprecated pdfhost (and perhaps more broadly all of focus.nps.gov) in favor of npgallery.nps.gov. Rather than complaining to the NPS about this, perhaps someone should figure how to map existing URLs from pdfhost (like the bare one in the MPS field of the Hotel Cortez article) to a properly working npgallery link, and then asking a bot operator to make alterations to those links automatically. Magic♪piano 14:07, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Recently, I ran into an editor @Iryna Harpy:, a lovely person, who seems to really not mind, or actually- enjoys working with references. Maybe Iryna Harpy would have some good suggestions about how to handle this very important issue. (Background: refs for NRHP articles have broken because ... (well see above) and we need to figure out how to fix them all.) Iryna Harpy, please let me know if you'd be interested in giving me / us ideas for how to handle this issue. I'd be happy to work on this with you if you feel up to it. Thank you.--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 15:24, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Question about verifying Poe Elementary School in Houston's NRHP status

Hi! I believe Boulevard Oaks, Houston is a historic district. I went by Poe Elementary School (Houston) and saw a sign saying it's listed on the National Register of Historic Places, but I couldn't find a listing on nps.gov.

I wonder if anybody knows what webpage would help verify the school's status as an NRHP site? Thanks, WhisperToMe (talk) 14:35, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

The school is the first of the "major buildings within the district" listed in the registration form for the Boulevard Oaks Historic District. It is not individually listed on the NRHP, but is a contributing property to the historic district. Often people do not make that distinction. Ntsimp (talk) 15:16, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

I added a NRHP CP infobox. MB 17:09, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Thank you so much! The sign was the standard NRHP sign from the US Department of the Interior WhisperToMe (talk) 20:01, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Willits House

Is anyone available to look into this a bit. An IP recently made what at a glance look like good changes (including adding a ref), but also removed the refnum from the infobox with the edit summary "appears not to be on the register". But the place is in National Register of Historic Places listings in Lake County, Illinois with a refnum. I don't want to revert the change without a second opinion; I haven't even looked for the nom form. MB 00:51, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

I found the listing in the 1982 yearly list. I added back just the listing date and refnum. 25or6to4 (talk) 05:43, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Finding information on a small town in Lowndes County, Marble Stone, Alabama

Requesting information concerning Marblestone, or Marble Stone, Alabama located in Lowndes County. The town no longer exists, and I wanted to know what happened to it. I recall stories of African American families being poisoned by way of milk deliveries and forced to leave their community. The families had to leave in the night on foot. I am wondering was Marble Stone the town they had to leave. Years ago the only thing left of the town that I found, was a set of concrete steps, which may have lead to the school for African Americans. If anyone has any information on the history of Marble Stone, Alabama, I would appreciate your sharing so we can give them a small place in history. °

User:Voice39, I don't see any hits in Google Maps. But searching in GNIS (on "Marble Stone" at GNIS search page) yields two hits. These are places in Lowndes County, Alabama. I am not sure how to interpret the latitude and longitude info from GNIS, but try:

*Marble Stone Church (historical) 32.1223°N 86.2637°W / 32.1223; -86.2637 (Marble Stone Church (historical), if coords are decimal), if I am to interpret the coords as decimal, GNIS listed 01-DEC-2003 (32°12′23″N 86°26′37″W, if the coord info is Degrees-Minutes-Seconds

• Marble Stone School 32.1313°N 86.2705°W / 32.1313; -86.2705 (Marble Stone School if coords are decimal), if coords are decimal, GNIS listed 04-SEP-1980, 32°13′13″N 86°27′05″W if coords are DMS format.

Click at right to see all of these locations in Open Source Map, but that does not give a satellite view option.

Click on any one set of coordinates and make choices to drill in and see the location in Google Satellite view.

I suppose they were in an unincorporated community named Marble Stone. One would need some more information to start a Wikipedia article on the community, but if it was a populated place then it would be okay to create an article, if one has sources. With just GNIS info is not enough; articles that are sourced just to that (or to copies of its information) routinely get deleted.

There appears to be no info about it in any of the items in National Register of Historic Places listings in Lowndes County, Alabama.

You don't mean "Marble City", as addressed in this opinion article (which I can only partially read). Hope this helps. --Doncram (talk) 07:04, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

The above mapping didn't work very well. Instead, in the GNIS results, click on one of the feature names found, then select one of the mapping services to the right. Hmm, a different "Marble Stone School" in Mississippi is located on Marblestone Rd. The Alabama coords seem to point to locations out in fields; maybe the coordinates are not very good. There are often issues with coordinates of historic places. Anyhow, GNIS does identify a school and a church, even if the location is not clear. --Doncram (talk) 07:25, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Tortugas Pueblo Fiesta of Our Lady of Guadalupe, is it listed?

For Tortugas Pueblo Fiesta of Our Lady of Guadalupe, i can't find any NRIS info, nor any mention in the National Register's Weekly listings reports at the time, nor any NRHP documents or photos. If it was listed in 2007, it should be in NRIS version 2013a that the NRHP infobox generator serves up. And there is no hit in this National Archives search on the reference number. Also, I would think it would have a reference number in different format (like "0070####, rather than 10000####). Here is what is available as National Register of Historic Places listings in Dona Ana County, New Mexico:

Tortugas Pueblo Fiesta of Our Lady of Guadalupe
January 22, 2007
(#100001437)
Bounded by Emilia Rd., E. Guadalupe St., Juan Diego Ave., and Stern Dr. / 32°16′11″N 106°45′10″W	
Tortugas, New Mexico	

Although Tortugas, New Mexico is a redlink there is is a Tortugas Mountain Observatory. Help! --Doncram (talk) 19:37, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

The listing date was wrong. It's found in the August 11, 2017 weekly list. Ntsimp (talk) 19:48, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Ah, Ntsimp, thanks! I see you updated the list-article already, too. By the way, is there any way to search the weekly lists? There are pages mentioning a search, but then it just gives an index to the weekly lists, so it seems you need to know the approximate date to browse and find a given entry. General google searching sometimes works, but not for me this time. Any which way you found it, thanks. :) --Doncram (talk) 00:43, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

I don't know any way to search the weekly lists; that would be useful. I assumed it had been added to the list article soon after being listed, and just used WikiBlame to search for the addition of Tortugas, which found this edit. Ntsimp (talk) 04:05, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Hooray, typo on my part! Usually, when I need to search the weekly listings for something on the list, I'll google search by the reference number, and usually add "listed" to the search. Usually the first two articles are the Wiki article and the weekly listing article. If it's something from the older lists before 1995, I have redigitized pdfs that are text searchable. 25or6to4 (talk) 06:02, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks! Hmm there is https://www.nps.gov/nr/feature/places/weeklylistsearch.html which is for "Search the NR 2013 - 2016 Weekly Lists" only. Maybe helpful sometimes.

Real question, relating to my new struggle to begin cover 14 listings in a combo article, Camino Real in New Mexico: I am having trouble finding the county where refnum 11000169 Camino Real-Alamitos Section is listed, so I would like to see its Weekly listing. Googling "11000169 listed" doesn't work for me, nor does googling other combos of info. But this one is in 2011, so it is in NRIS, okay i see from NRHP infobox generator that it is in Santa Fe County, listed April 8, 2011. But it does not appear in National Register of Historic Places listings in Santa Fe County, New Mexico! --Doncram (talk) 08:55, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

And I stepped through about 8 weeks of weekly listings after April 8, 2011, and can't find it, nor do I come across any of several other Camino Real listings of the same date. NRIS infobox generator says it is in Santo Domingo Pueblo, New Mexico, which redirects to Kewa Pueblo, which is in Sandoval County, but there's nothing about it in National Register of Historic Places listings in Sandoval County, New Mexico. Is this listed? And not in our list-system? --Doncram (talk) 09:07, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Ok, so you grabbed the single listing of those 11 that isn't on a weekly listing. For some reason, the Alamitos listing is not with the other 10 listings, when they were listed. I finally found them on the February 24, 2012 listing! On the location, so far, I'm coming up with nothing. 25or6to4 (talk) 14:29, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

I see 11000169 shown in Santa Fe County on https://npgallery.nps.gov/AssetDetail/NRIS/11000169. It's also listed in Santa Fe in the 2014 geodatabase dump, loaded at https://www.historypointer.com/nris/resource/11000169/ (full disclosure: I run historypointer.com). Halmueller (talk) 18:26, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Infobox generator

Is there any interest in an updated automatic Infobox generator? I've been working with the NPS 2014 database dump, as well as the weekly updates, and have a combined database of all property listings to support a personal website project. If there's interest, I'll add a page template there that generates an Infobox, in the spirit of the old Elkman tool (and following any consensus reached in the NRIS Reference discussion now occurring). The database is in PostGIS, and has some coordinates for the newer property listings. It doesn't have NHL designations, and does not (yet) reflect properties that have been removed. Halmueller (talk) 00:14, 21 August 2019 (UTC)