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Talk:2008 protests against Kosovo declaration of independence

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Untitled

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Police in Belgrade announced tonight that about 250000 protesters attended rally not one million

Merge

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I would support merging Kosovo is Serbia protest into this article. Superm401 - Talk 03:33, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I second that and will do it (giving it its own section under name Kosovo is Serbia Protest) unless someone objects.--Lopakhin (talk) 10:17, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
okay, I did it. Someone can undo the changes if they're really opposed to that.--Lopakhin (talk) 10:28, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

About an image

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[[:Image:Belgrade Kosovo is serbia protest Obraz flag Karadzic portrait.jpg|400px|center|thumb|Serbian protester holding a Radovan Karadzic photo and an Obraz flag — from TIME Magazine]]

I am trying to put this image above on the article, under the informative fair use directives, but some Serb user is deleting and/or “hiding it” every time. Why? I think this image is important enough to appear in the article.

The Serb user Avala says this image above, but that is not true since it’s fair use. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.27.78.229 (talk) 14:06, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It does indeed have an appropriate fair use rationale. Avala removed the rationale and put a copyvio notice (using the same source listed in the rationale). Unsurprisingly, he did not use an edit summary or provide any justification on talk. The image was then deleted as a copyvio. I have undeleted it and placed in an appropriate place in the article. Do not remove it without stating your justification. Superm401 - Talk 13:57, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cleanup

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Looks well doumented and structured - remove cleanup tag? Mikebar (talk) 09:13, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yup. Much better than when I put the tag on. croll (talk) 22:53, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

POV

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This article is POV becouse there you write only about agresive protest's. You didn't write nothing about non agresive protest of students and other sitizens in almost all cities of Serbia. If you read this article you will get wrong opinion about this protests --Jovanvb (talk) 11:48, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's clearly not true. 2008_protests_in_Serbia#Kosovo_is_Serbia_protest spends several paragraphs on the peaceful majority of the protest, and even notes "the protest was peaceful" until the embassy attacks. If you want to add more information about peaceful protests, do so. But just complaining without providing useful information is not constructive. Superm401 - Talk 13:37, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm removing the POV tag, since I don't see any issue with the current article. Superm401 - Talk 04:54, 1 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

embassy attacks note

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it should be clarified(as it is now) that the people who burned down the consular department(as could also be noted instead of just "embassy" - this isn't the newspapper, sensacionalism isn't a motive) of the embassy infact ARE the hooligans and not to say that they were only serbs, but serbians(a slight, contextual difference - nobody identified them to see their nationality, and serbian can stand for the citizen of serbia). uninformed(uninterested) reader could get the picture that it were the passers-by that did this, when in fact they were (organized) mob that went out on the streets only to perform demolitions and arsons.--PrimEviL 15:20, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The source clearly says both Serb and embassy. If you can find contrary evidence, please bring it here. Superm401 - Talk 15:27, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
http://xs4.b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?dd=21&mm=2&yyyy=2008 - more reliable source, i'd say. subcaption "Huligani posle mitinga napali ambasade" means "Hooligans attacked embassies after the peacefull demonstrations". as for serbian->serb revert - yes, majority of the hooligans were probably serbs, but, as i said - nobody did identified them, therefore a categorisation like this is biased, mildly said. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PrimEviL (talk • contribs) 17:00, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The source (Yahoo) does identify them as Serbs, and the building as part of the embassy; yours apparently makes no identification either way on the ethnicity, so I'm reverting. Superm401 - Talk 10:55, 26 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Non-free/fair use images

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Future Perfect at Sunrise removed 4 non-free/fair use images. He stated that Image:Belgrade Kosovo is serbia protest Obraz flag Karadzic portrait.jpg was removed due to violation of NFCC 2 ("Respect for commercial opportunities"), Image:Kosovo rally in Belgrade.jpg was removed because it was thought to be replaced by Image:Bbbb.jpg, and Image:Serbs burn US embassy in Belgrade.jpg was removed again on grounds of NFCC 2, and finally Image:Protests in Belgrade.jpg was removed for similar reasons.

Of course, any image can be used commercially, and thus fair use inevitably harms commercial prospects at least slightly. But we have to weigh that against the purpose of including the image in Wikipedia. Where there's a legitimate educational purpose, that can sometimes override the commercial harm.

In all these cases, the images are available online free through ad-supported sites. So while these images do have a commercial purpose, they aren't for instance Corbis images, where you must pay just to see the images. More importantly, these are not just random images. They all serve key educational purposes here on Wikipedia.

Image:Belgrade Kosovo is serbia protest Obraz flag Karadzic portrait.jpg effectively illustrates the political and cultural ideas behind the protest in a way no other image does. This image is already being challenged on its image page, and pending an administrator decision.

Future Perfect at Sunrise chose to delete this image himself on grounds of NFCC 2, despite the fact that it was already pending an admin decision for replaceability. I will take this to deletion review, unless I can come to an agreement with User:Future Perfect at Sunrise. Superm401 - Talk 07:36, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Kosovo rally in Belgrade.jpg is valuable for showing the massive extent of the peaceful parts of protests. It is not replaced by Image:Bbbb.jpg, because the latter is taken from a low level and does not show the size of the protest.

Image:Serbs burn US embassy in Belgrade.jpg shows a clearly notable incident, the burning of the U.S. embassy by a small group of Serbs. This was an international incident condemned by the U.N. Security Council, and there are no free images available, so it should be kept.

Image:Protests in Belgrade.jpg was removed , on grounds that "non-free content needs to be *minimal*, reduced to the absolutely necessary, and not replace the image's commercial market role." This is similar to Image:Kosovo rally in Belgrade.jpg. Both are non-free and show the extent of the protest from above. I think one should be kept, but agree that keeping both of these two is unnecessary. I would prefer to keep Image:Kosovo rally in Belgrade.jpg, but it's not important; either of these two will suffice. Besides these two, the others serve unique purposes, and all should be kept unless free replacements with the same purpose come to light. Superm401 - Talk 07:36, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've responded on the image description pages. These are all clear cases of WP:NFCC 2 if ever there was such a thing, sorry. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:40, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Future Perfect at Sunrise, The fact that it has commercial implications does not automatically bar all fair use claims. Otherwise, we would have no fair use images. Fair use is a compromise between the public interest and exclusively commercial interests. None of these uses will completely replace commercial uses. People are still going to see the images at their original sites. Superm401 - Talk 07:47, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I am not saying that all these images have to be used in their current forms. I would support deleting one of the crowd shots. It would also be reasonable to lower the resolution of the images, thus decreasing commercial ramifications. However, I strongly disagree with deleting all the images just because they have commercial ramifications. I think you are misinterpreting NFCC 2, if you believe it means that fair use must have no commercial effect. Superm401 - Talk 07:59, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Responded at my talk. Please see WP:NFC, the section about "unacceptable uses". Quote: "A photo from a press agency (e.g. AP), unless the photo itself is the subject of sourced commentary in the article. This applies mostly to contemporary press photos and not necessarily to historical archives of press photos". Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:28, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Banja Luka

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Banja Luka isn't in Serbia, so this mention really belongs elsewhere (possibly in 2008_Kosovo_declaration_of_independence#Reaction_within_the_European_Union). Superm401 - Talk 09:33, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A bit POV intro

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...presenting solely & exclusively the Prime Minister's statement at the very top. The President's statements should be added too, or altogether removed. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:44, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]


New image

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I have changed image,the new image is better...if someone have better image replace this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zakipfc (talk • contribs) 01:08, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in 2008 protests in Serbia

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I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of 2008 protests in Serbia's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "BBC":

  • From Wikimedia Commons: Twist, Jo (20 November 2005). "Open media to connect communities". BBC News. Retrieved 2007-08-06.
  • From Kosovo: "World: Europe UN gives figure for Kosovo dead".

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 22:37, 21 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2008/02/2008525184855757277.html. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Mkativerata (talk) 19:41, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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