Talk:2009 Vancouver gang war

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Surrey Six killings/arrests[edit]

I don't know where to fit the Bacon Brothers (gangsters) arrests in here, though an ex-UN member is involved in the story; i.e. as to which of those killings listed are those in question, other than the two men killed in an apartment building who certainly are FWIU. As with someone else's comment on Talk:Independent Soldiers, citation is an issue although there's lots of news copy; I'm just observing that I don't want to get involved in editing the article, I'm just here to place teh WP templates, but thought I'd mention the Bacon Bros' arrests as part of this page, which needs updating. I also added older gangs like the Russians, the Lotus, the Diablos to the {{Canadian gangs}} template....didn't get around to Viet Ching (gang) but old news copy on all is or should be easy to find. Older crime stories like the Phillippone brothers (various spellings) are harder to call "gangs" in modern tersm.....Skookum1 (talk) 23:06, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Heya Skookum! long time no talk. Lotus and Los Diablos were the same thing btw. Different names for the same oldschool gang. gotta go for now. -- OlEnglish (Talk) 23:07, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Really? Not what I heard, or what the case was back during the demise of the Russians. Los Diablos were a mix of Latinos and Filipinos and some Punjabis, AFAIK, the Lotus was the Chinese gang, part of one of the triads; don't think Big Circle Boys, or maybe another wing of same.....Skookum1 (talk) 23:36, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Coke shortage[edit]

Re this:

Both the U.S. and Canadian governments are even seeing prolonged shortages of cocaine.

Yeah, cabinet meetings just aren't what they were....LOL. But seriously, on either CTV or CBC there was a news item where a senior narc in BC was interviewed; I'm pretty sure it was TV, it may have been CBC radio, played nationally, that the rash of shootings was partly teh result of so many people having withdrawals from heavy coke use ,as what coke they were getting was getting more and more stepped on because of teh short supply caused by the Sinaloa War between the Mexican state and that cartel. This was before the Bacon Brothers story broke, though not all killings and shootings in the list were associated, or are so far known to be associated with them. Sorry I can't recall the date; that analysis would be worth citing, it was an interview with the head of the BC contingent of what used to be called CLEU (Coordinated Law Enforcment Unit} - E-Comm maybe but I don't think so; he was in their offices though I'm sure, i.e. his org is headquartered within that facility.Skookum1 (talk) 22:25, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Older gang activity[edit]

Someone in my facebook group, who in fact is a wikipedian, former anyway, posted this link to a history of ganggs in 1950s-60s Vancouver; unfortunately it's a blog so not a reliable source, though from what i can see pretty accurate and must be based on authoritative sources. Worth a quick read anyway.Skookum1 (talk) 22:21, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

There's a link to a PDF at the end. Can we use that? It's an SFU dissertation.. maybe we can even expand this article to a more broader Gangs in Metro Vancouver.. but only if we can agree on what to call it, we don't want another repeat of Talk:List of filming locations in the Vancouver area! haha :) -- OlEnglish (Talk) 01:43, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, university dissertations are reliable sources (they're peer-reviewed and cited). But please don't use the neologism "Metro Vancouver" for any such article; it's less than 2 years old and the gang era in question was from a time when it was was simply "Vancouver" and the term "Greater Vancouver" was the "new idea". It's even less apt for the history of US Prohibition-era smuggling. Metro Vancouver is the name of the organization, not of the place (which is still officially the GVRD).Skookum1 (talk) 03:18, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Oooh no. You're not dragging me into this again! ;) -- OlEnglish (Talk) 21:51, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
History of gangs in Vancouver and the Lower Mainland or History of gangs in British Columbia (as Victoria, Nanaimo, Abbotsford, Kelowna, Prince George are at play....); not quite the same as "history of crime", either...."history of murder-suicides in BC", "history of serial killers in BC" and so on come to mind, though I'm mostly just (darkly) joking; some don't fit (e.g. Bruce Blackman, Brother XII, or that guy up in Holberg who burned up his house/kids); point is also those older gangs were not really criminal organizations, they were brawling clubs.....the meaning of the word has changed; the tongs have been here all along of course (since 1867, virtually from day one....). And remember that "gang" is defined by the Criminal Code (since about 2001) as being "any three persons who collaborate/conspire to commit a criminal offence".....so terminoiogically it's a too-loose term and can include, for example, groups of corrupt politicians or police (though in those cases "gang" is not used, nor "organized crime" even though the letter of the law says the term should be used)....also to note that some organizzed crime activity the term "gang" was rarely used....e.g. the crime network that operated, 'tis alleged, out of the Penthouse....though to this day the Phillippone family maintain total innocence....and there's been "lone warriors" with "informal gangs", e.g. Bindy Johal and the Dossanjh Bros (and those who killed them); there's also Persian Pride, not sure if they're on the template, but that's a family feud more than it is a gang in the usual sense...I'm not a criminologist, criminal history's not my thing though I have a sort of eidetic memory and just remember all the news copy; gang-crime is "fashionable" in the media right now; 25 years ago it was serialkiller-crime (Olson, Dahmer, Bundy, the Bernardos....and stuff like Solar Temple and, long before, Jonestown...); conveniently public excitement over crime always seems to get heated just before an election, and people vote for hte party they think can do something about it; really none can, but it does serve to get votes....I'm also of the opinion that this topic matter can be prone to OR/synthesis and also skirts between the egos of the crimworld and the concerns of the poilce; in other words, dangerous material and I'd be (if I were any editor significantly contirbuting here) very careful about what I added to the article, and how I said it, and to make sure it was cited and "journalistically responsible". Also WP:BLP is crucial to observe, whether somebody's in the docket, in prison or still/back out on the streets.....Skookum1 (talk) 03:31, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes there's definately lots of material to cover and this could have the makings of a great article but it's gonna take a lot of work. Maybe WP:WikiProject Vancouver can help. -- OlEnglish (Talk) 21:51, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

What influence does gangster culture have on kids?[edit]

What influence does gangster culture have on kids?. Interesting read. Possible source. -- OlEnglish (Talk) 21:54, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

"Gang-related homicides and shootings" section[edit]

While all these are cited, is there a citation which mentthem as part of the gang war. There is a difference if these are only "gang-related deaths". Gang-related deaths were going on before the gang war and will go on after it; tehre is a particular cycle of revengue /comeptition that the war is about; not all gang-related deaths are necessairly part of it. If anything it should be a separae article/list/timeline.....Skookum1 (talk) 14:06, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


Many of the crimes on this list have nothing to do with this war, the canning murder for example. Clean up maybe?Kurtdriver (talk) 16:46, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Total Misinformation[edit]

I don't know what's up with the 'bad weather' marijuana shortage supposedly sparking this gang war in the first paragraph, but almost all weed in British Columbia is grown indoors under strict hydro conditions. Weather makes no difference. The actual reason for this 'war' was some UN gang members (Bacon brothers and associates) defected to the hells angels by agreeing to do a takeover of the Scorpions, who had an established drug network. The 'Surrey Six' shootings were the leaders of the red scorpions all eliminated at once so Bacon and pals could take it over to run it as a puppet hells angels gang. Takeovers are standard local hells angels practice, they did it with the Independent Soldiers who's leaders were also all killed and replaced. The UN of course retaliated like any gang does when it's members defect, and the conflict escalated. Ohheyuguise (talk) 06:59, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the bad weather b.s. and have changed that sentence to what the cite says: the violence is a spin-off of the anti-cartel "war" in Mexico; there's lots more cites for that, needless to say. There's a bit of repetitiveness now with later paragraphs but this whole article needs tidying up and better ref'ing, as a lot of content is uncited, i.e. hearsay/original research. Your account above is "interesting" but unless proper citations for the analysis can be provided (maybe a news article?) it can't be added to the article. "Bad weather" may apply to the outdoor crops in the Interior (though I'd think forest fire-related losses are more like it), but SFAIK most of those are not controlled by any of the Vancouver gangs....which thrive on hydroponic dope, yes....Skookum1 (talk) 15:48, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
An "interesting" account indeed, and emblematic of the ridiculous, gossipy conjecture surrounding these 2009 gang homicides. Idiotic sensationalist Lower Mainlanders treating this rare flash of violence like fucking reality TV, it's pathetic. The content of this article alone is typical of the insipid internet shit-talking that was spewed so fervently by stupid, bored losers looking to find a spark of excitement in their pathetic lives. When you're an authority on nothing, one can pretend to know about things that are impossible to confirm! -Anon

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