Talk:869 Jōgan earthquake

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A fact from 869 Jōgan earthquake appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 21 March 2011 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that flooding associated with the Sanriku earthquake and tsunami in 869 extended for at least four kilometres inland on the Sendai plain?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2011/March.

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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on July 9, 2012, July 9, 2015, and July 9, 2019.

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Name

This should either be the "859 Sanriku earthquake and tsunami" or the "Jogan Sanriku earthquake and tsunami", not both, since repeating the year twice would be redundant. Given the precedent of 1933 Sanriku earthquake, I'd opt for the former. Jpatokal (talk) 05:33, 14 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Plunged forward and moved it. Jpatokal (talk) 05:39, 14 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually precedent would suggest either the original title, as in 1707 Hoei earthquake or a combination of era and locality name as in 1896 Meiji-Sanriku earthquake. I propose to move it to 869 Jōgan-Sanriku earthquake and tsunami as Jōgan refers to an era, not a single year and therefore requires the extra information. Mikenorton (talk) 07:23, 14 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's why I'm arguing against putting "Jogan" in the name at all, since it's meaningless to 99.9% of English readers. The de-facto standard for disasters on Wikipedia (in the absence of obviously superior common names0 is "<<year>> <<place>> <<event>>", see eg. Wikipedia:Naming conventions (events)#Tornado and tornado outbreak, and there's nothing on MOS:JA that argues against this. But I'll raise the issue on both and try to get some other views, see here. Jpatokal (talk) 09:21, 14 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Following the discussion over at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles)#Naming of earthquakes: Western year, nengo, or both?, I'm proposing to change the article name to 869 Jōgan Sanriku earthquake and tsunami. Mikenorton (talk) 19:00, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No objection per se, but I'd like to keep the discussion going there so we can agree on a standard. Jpatokal (talk) 00:47, 19 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OK by me, no need to rush. Mikenorton (talk) 15:03, 19 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Western date

The given western date 13 July 869 for Jōgan 11/5/26 is wrong. I suppose it was taken from the Japanese article which in turn may have taken it from its listed source http://web.bureau.tohoku.ac.jp/manabi/manabi16/mm16-45.html. However, the Nengo converter given in the article Japanese era name, the Japanese article on Jōgan with its conversion table and this paper all give 9 July 869. --Mps (talk) 12:27, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The date was taken from source 4, Minoura et al. (2001) [1] quoting Usami (1987), which is backed up by the NOAA/NGDC significant earthquake database entry [2], although it's hard to tell which source they got that from. I see that Sawai et al. 2008 that you linked to gives the 9th July date. On that basis I'll make the change and an inline cite to the paper. Thanks for pointing that out - and I found quite a few more interesting papers looking this up. Mikenorton (talk) 13:30, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Name again

I've looked at other articles that record earthquakes with large tsunamis and have decided that 'and tsunami' shouldn't be in the title or we would end up with the '1xxx somewhere earthquake fires, landslides and tsunami' or similar - the earthquake is the underlying cause. So I'm planning to change the article to 869 Jōgan Sanriku earthquake unless there are any objections. Mikenorton (talk) 14:34, 26 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support - This earthquake is known as "Jogan earthquake" or "Jogan Sanriku earthquake". And I recommend "869 Jogan Sanriku earthquake" (or "869 Jogan Sanriku earthquake and tsunami") because "Jogan" is meaningfully commoner then "Jōgan" in the English sources of the earthquake such as thesis, books and presses.--Mujaki (talk) 16:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well I was looking for a more extensive consensus than two, but I think that enough time has elapsed, so I'm making the change to '869 Jogan Sanriku earthquake' as suggested, thanks for your input. Mikenorton (talk) 15:24, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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