Talk:Alta (dye)

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Vandalism

My concern :

User : 2A02:C7D:D802:8700:4850:9F2E:2DDB:EDCF is pushing their Pov which is unsourced claim and removing the data I already added previously. What can I do to stop this? Can this page be semi protected? Tithi.sarkar (talk) 17:15, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That user is free to add anything he/she likes, but can't delete the verified sources and citations I added for npov Tithi.sarkar (talk) 20:13, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tithi.sarkar The latest revision (which is done by you) seems fair to me and goes with the provided sources. The user:2A02:C7D:D802:8700:4850:9F2E:2DDB:EDCF is indeed editing disruply and not maintaining npov.

Okaymishti Yes I agree. Please sign in while discussing on the talk page :) Tithi.sarkar (talk) 03:33, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Region

This discussion is about the location of Alta.Why should Bangladesh come first?

After seeing all the references and links attached I come to know, at least 12 out of 21 references are about "Bangladeshi"(who are ethnically Bengali) usage of Alta.The other references "Bengali" uses of Alta.

Here is the reason I think Bangladesh should come before India in the article:

Alta is really significant part of "Bangladeshi" culture and used by all women of the country(98% of Bangladeshis are Bengali). It's used in Bangladesh way more than India.

Most of the references are about how and when it's used and it's importance in Bangladesh regardless of religion(and that it's used way more verily, significantly and enthusiastically in Bangladesh).

The most other references on this page which talk about it being "Hindu" depicts it's significant practice in Bengali Hindu weddings. (so not just Indian Bengali Hindus, it talks about Bangladeshi Bengali Hindus too)

Alphabetically, Bangladesh comes before India.

It's called/known as "Rose Bengal", "Bengali Mehendi" and "Mehendi of Bengal". (so you can guess the importance and significance)

There is no valid reason why India should come first.

These are my reasons, I might add more later. Please give your opinion on this and provide valid reasons. I'm all for discussions. Till then,don't change the location/region of this article. Thank you. Okaymishti (talk) 21:17, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Arguments for current order: India, Bangladesh:

that's the way it's been since the first time Bangladesh was specifically mentioned in the article
The 21 references you referring to happen to be the one's that mostly you have gathered for the article. Google searches for ("alta" "dye" "India") and ("alta" "dye" "Bangaledesh") yield nearly a million more hits for India; a Google search for India explicitly excluding Bangladesh ("alta" "india" "dye" -bangladesh) yields 3 millions hits, while the opposite ("alta" "bangladesh" "dye" -india) yields 133,000. For Google news hits, ("alta" "india" "dye") gets 1,990, while ("alta" "bangladesh" "dye") gets 68.

I don't have a horse in this race (I'm not connected to either country nor biased for or against either); my objection to changing it is that it feels like you're trying to "claim" the article for your country. Of your arguments, the only one that carries any water as far as I'm concerned is that there is a larger population of Bengalis in Bangladesh than in India, but do we have sources that say alta is only used by Bengali people, or most often used by Bengali people? OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 00:09, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ohnoitsjamie Respectfully, I'm not "claiming" anything but Alta is "mostly used" by Bengalis and some Odia people.(mainly people from Eastern Indian subcontinent). It's known as "Bengali Mehendi","Mehendi of Bengal" or "Rose Bengal" for a reason. Here are my answer:

"That's the way it's been since the first time Bangladesh was specifically mentioned in the article." Well,that is not an enough/valid reason. The article is a lot more modified now and contains a lot more information now compared to before along with veified, reliable citations and I'm speaking on the basis of that(provided references and contains).Anyone neutral will be able to understand why the order should be Bangladesh,India.
Here^[1] the "Bengali Mehendi" has been highlighted and depicted about mythologies in rural Bengal.

Alta "might had" been used by the subcontinent in past, but according to this^[2] ,we can see how "Bengal" has been highlighted under "Alta in Global Spotlight" .
By that^[3] same article, it is claimed how Henna(Mehendi) replaced Alta on other parts of India during Islamic rule.Most Indian women use Mehendi instead of Alta now. Should a country with people who use this "product" in a minority scale come before than a country with people who use it in a majority scale?
Most Indian women abandoned,stopped using Alta centuries ago and went for Mehendi.They "traditionally" don't even wear Alta anymore. Whereas, it's a significant and inseparable part of Bangladeshi culture and used by almost all Bangladeshi women. Again,should a country with people who use this "product" in a minority scale come before than a country with people who use it in a majority scale?
When you search about "Alta" in Bengali language it shows more Bangladeshi results.And Bangladeshi articles showing more/less results doesn't prove anything,right?All the Bangladeshi articles or articles about Bangladesh(by verified leading sites) I added about Alta is in Bengali language since "Bangla" is the state language of Bangladesh. On the other hand,articles about it's use "in" India is in English.India has 22 official languages which is why they use English as an easy and common form/field of communication.Thus those articles are in English and come up first when you search about Alta in English.

The question goes both ways.Indians aren't the only one who use Alta too. I don't see any valid reason to put it before Bangladesh, specially when most/majority of Indians don't even use this product.
I'm not claiming "Alta" or this article for any country but just stating what seems right.(Not sure how it can be seen as "claiming"?) Does "India" being before Bangladesh "claims" it for India? I don't think so. Bangladesh and India both can be/are as the region on the list, but I think Bangladesh comes first since there are multiple reasons to be so i.e. Alta is practiced vast majorly and significantly there compared to India.

(I respect your pov and opinion. This discussion is open,I hope people will come up with valid,solid/strong reasons/answer regarding this topic. Okaymishti (talk) 02:29, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion is closed for now. Please don't add/remove anything on this discussion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Okaymishti (talk • contribs) 01:00, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

Edits by Tithi.sarkar

@Tithi.sarkar: Your edit summaries at Alta (dye) aren't consistent with your edits.

Your reasoning is that because alta isn't only used in India, it isn't used in India? The stub tag does belong there. If additional tags are also applicable, then add them, don't remove the one that's already there.

"Festivals" already includes cultural festivals as well as non-cultural festivals. Inserting "cultural" in front of "festivals" doesn't add cultural festivals, because they were already implicitly included. Instead, your addition of "cultural" limits implies that alta is used only for cultural festivals. Is that true? Are there no festivals besides cultural ones where alta is used?

Why is the reference irrelevant? Largoplazo (talk) 18:45, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not revert everything

Sources are reliable and should not be reverted. Tighten the text of the article instead. Mranmolv1 (talk) 11:20, 1 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://www.weddingwire.in/wedding-tips/bengali-mehndi--c3407

[2] ttps://www.utsavpedia.com/cultural-connections/alta/

[3] ttps://www.utsavpedia.com/cultural-connections/alta/

[1]

[2]

[3]