Talk:Arthur Cravan

Disappearance - no source?

Any objections to the removal of the unsourced line ..."was last seen at Salina Cruz, Mexico in 1918 and most likely drowned in the Pacific Ocean off the coast of Mexico in November 1918"? 208.76.82.4 (talk) 06:04, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

It would probably be easy to source it from some French lexicon of literature: I know some thoroughly reliable ones. I first heard of the guy in a book about surrealism by an eminent critic (in Swedish) and he mentioned the disappearance and Cravan's "turning into a legendary figure" afterwards. So there's not much doubt that it's a well known thing. Also, he knew Francis Picabia, who was to become notorious and who would have helped keep alive Cravan's memory.Strausszek (talk) 20:09, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

The "...and most likely drowned in the Pacific Ocean off the coast of Mexico in November 1918" statement has now been {{Fact}} tagged for over a year and is very much in need of a valid <ref>. 58.8.13.201 (talk) 20:28, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I'll try to fix one or two good refs asap.Strausszek (talk) 10:00, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Found one, highly reliable, to source his disappearance at that time and place, and with some more interesting points about his Paris career. The resemblance of Cravan's attitudes to a rock star is very obvious I think, the only reason I can't find a citation for it is that most sources on him are either older than 1960 or are not of a kind where it would be natural to compare his stance with Madonna, Bolan or Alice Cooper. Youi don't do that in a hndbook on modern literature but it's very clear he was all for showy, half absurd spectacle, confrontational and didn't care a jot for consistency.

Actually though, nobody can *prove* that Cravan drowned, anymore than we can prove just how and where Joshua Slocum or Amelia Earhart went under. what you want reliably cited is either that "many people who have heard about Cravan and have looked into this hold that he drowned during a storm in the Pacific or the Gulf of Mexico in 1918" or "there's no real reason to suppose anything other than that Cravan drowned in the Pacific or the Gulf of Mexico in 1918". Now, both of those are aggregate statements, not simple statements of a single brute fact; to verify them - not even to prove them, but to verify - you'd need to look at a large number of different stories, newspaper items and writings. The fact that person X says that Cravan most likely drowned, or that no one has reliably seen him since the day he sailed, doesn't verify anything, and many of Cravan's friends probably clung to the idea for years that he had just decided to go underground and was still alive. Compare with Maddie McCann!

So, if you want every statement verified in terms of that "most reliable people think that (p)" it would become totally unwieldy and unreadable. I think, if one looked around some literary historians and critics who have written about Cravan, 99 out of 100 of them would say that he disappeared and with near certainty he drowned, but that in itself doesn't prove he drowned or even that it was the dominant opinion in the years right after 1918.Strausszek (talk) 10:40, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Boxing credentials?

The article most probably should have been placed in Uncyclopedia rather than Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.213.65.166 (talk) 10:44, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

The article says Cravan became the heavyweight champion of France without having to fight a single match. Boxing was becoming fashionable at the time, especially in Paris, but Cravan's creditable position as a champ is very doubtful. From what I've read, he proclaimed himself "European champion" for a single match against Jack Johnson during the war - and of course he was knocked out cold without any trouble. Johnson refers to this match in his autobiography and recalls that it was a quickie. 73.36.62.119 (talk) 16:40, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

It seems the idea of Cravan and his friends in arranging the match was to sort of state "you can be anything that you want to be" in much the same way as some rockers and rappers do today: if you claim you're a boxing champ then you are, at least for now. Cravan's general attitudes and style clearly prefigure rock showmanship. Does anyone have any references that show he had ever been recognized as a title holder, or even done serious matches?Strausszek (talk) 20:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Why Swiss?

His parents were British, and he feared being drafted by the British during the first WW.--Kjalarr (talk) 13:19, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Style Issues

This article reeks of originally researched hagiography. Anyone up for a bit of editing? 73.36.62.119 (talk) 16:40, 10 May 2021 (UTC)