Talk:Baba Deep Singh

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Orphaned note from 2007[edit]

SUGGESTIONS I think that instead of the topic "Career" there shuold be something else. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaskaran3 (talk • contribs) 03:39, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Sandhu Mazhabi Sikh  ? - citations please[edit]

Last time I checked a few months ago. Baba Deep Singh Ji was described as a Sandhu Mazhabhi Sikh. And now he has become a Jatt. Again no citations have been made for the claim. The historical texts do not describe Baba Deep Singh as Jatt or Mazhabi Sandhu or belonging to any other caste group. If we can't get any citations for Baba Ji's caste, could we just leave his name as Baba Deep Singh instead of appending a caste name which is not properly sourced? . Regards.--Internet Scholar (talk) 17:10, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Baba Deep Singh belonged to Sandhu caste. It is a well documneted fact. —Preceding Wikipedia:Baba Deep Singh Ji Was Sandhu Mazhabi Sikh Family comment added by 69.62.196.200 (talk) 07:46, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

RE: Deol or Sandhu?[edit]

It is not quite clear which clan or caste Baba Deep Singh hails from, the most common is that he was from a Jat Sandhu tribe, however it has also been heard that he was from a Mazhabi Sandhu tribe. Because of the same surname and the majority of Sandhus being Jats it has been assumed that he came from that caste, even though Sandhu is a name common amongst a number of tribes in Punjab. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jack Porter (talk • contribs) 19:23, 24 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Family Origins[edit]

We need verifiable sources to establish Baba Deep Singh Ji's origins. I have read he is from Mazhabi Sandhu , Kamboj, Jatt, Rajput and even Tarkhan origins. I suggest we find a source with ISBN numbers and is not obscure.--Sikh-history (talk) 14:42, 12 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Baba Deep Singh Ji were a Gurm Jatt[edit]

Baba Deep Singh Ji were born in village Gurm near Dehlon, Ludhiana. Baba Ji's Father died in a Battle against the Pathans. So Baba Ji's Mother took him to her native Village Pahuwind. Ref. Jattan Dian 101 Gottan Da Itehas (GURM) By H.S. Duley —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.94.196.245 (talk) 19:21, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

He was a Sandhu Sikh Mazhabi you can read in 'panth prakash' by Ratan Singh bhangu Ranjeet Singh shergill (talk) 08:21, 16 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

He was from mazabhi sikh family. Stated by many historians like gyani ditt singh ji, jaswant singh ddpo many few more. Rocco sandhu (talk) 13:30, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Gyani ditt singh was one of the oldest gursikh historians and have debated in various other debates regarding many other sikh controversial topics. After his death his books were burned many now days historians believe that history written by gyani ji was one of truest. And he has clearly stated that baba ji was mazabhi sikh even akali phula singh ji and hari singh nalwa. Rocco sandhu (talk) 13:35, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed lead:[edit]

Baba Deep Singh (1682-1757) is revered among Sikhs as one of the most hallowed martyrs in Sikhism and as a highly religious person. He is remembered for his sacrifice and devotion to the teachings of the Sikh Gurus. The term Baba is used to show respect to an elder in India.

Tradition has it that Deep Singh continued to fight after having been decapitated, slaying his enemies with his head in one hand and his Khanda (double-edged sword) in the other.<ref name=deol/>

There are two traditions. One tradition states that Baba Deep Singh was decapitated and continued to fight. The other tradition is that he suffered a severe gash to his neck which made it appear as if he had been decapitated, but he continued to fight on. We need references for both accounts.
here is one reference. Thanks

Edit war. Please stop at once.[edit]

Please reach a consensus here on the talk page, or decide you don't care enough and leave the conflicting edits alone.- sinneed (talk) 21:53, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I personally do not care of the family origins of Baba Deep Singh ji. I do not however, want unrefrenced jibberish in this article, and an inter-caste fight over where his family came from. Thanks

Basically Baba Deep Singh Ji was Sand hu Mazhabi Family Because This Caste Are Worrier Caste So we Must Mention On Wikipedia The Real Things Paramveerdiwan (talk) 00:05, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Should this article move to Deep Singh, with a redirect from here and from Baba Deep Singh Ji?[edit]

The variations... Baba Deep Singh... Baba Deep Singh Ji, could be explained in the lead, which would help the casual reader quickly grasp the situation.- sinneed (talk) 21:55, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Wikilink to Baba and -ji.

Earlier life Baba deep sigh ji was mazhabi Sikh not jat Paramveerdiwan (talk) 02:35, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Cutting to talk - conflicts with a verifiable source - for possible inclusion.[edit]

,<ref>History of the Sikhs, Volume I" by Khushwant Singh.</ref>{{dubious|neither name appears in the searchable text of either the 1966 nor 2005 versions}} was also from the village of Pahuwind.{{fact|Searchgurbani.com is I am sure an excellent reference for individuals, but there is no indication of it meeting [[wp:Reliable Sources]] for WP.}}<ref>Mahankosh: The Most authentic source of Sikh history: http://www.searchgurbani.com/main.php?book=mahan_kosh&action=index&word=ਦੀਪਸਿੰਘ</ref>

insult[edit]

I am sorry but i find the removal of baba on the deep singh article as an insult as in sikhism he is always adressed as baba deep singh ji in a way of respect for him,this really will not go down well with the sikh faith

I ask you to please restore it to baba deep singh it is the name all sikhs know him as and how he is respected in our religion and it hurts me to see on wikipedia respect is not bieng shown towards religion


Please sineed change back the name it will do everybody a favour Misterconginialtastical (talk) 02:07, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It is unfortunate that you did not join the discussion before. Please see wp:Honorifics. And no, that is not a universal on Baba, nor on the Ji. Let us gather consensus on changing the article back. It is not an insult, whether consensus is to rename the article or not.- sinneed (talk) 03:25, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done, per wp:Honorifics... this is a historical figure known in both history and tradition as "Baba Deep Singh". Personal feelings are not at all arguments of value here.- sinneed (talk) 03:32, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Addressing the "Baba" always being used, please consider Bhagata, Siṅgha (1993). A History of the Sikh Misals. page 241: Publication Bureau, Punjabi University. He was born in A.D. 1682...father...Bhagata...mother...Jioni...devoted Sikhs.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: location (link) which refers to Deep Singh, Deep Singh Sandhu Shahid.- sinneed (talk) 03:55, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Sineed, I think the character is known commonly as Baba Deep Singh. I suppose it would be like Sir Lancelot, however, Deep Singh would be such a common name, there maybe a lot of confusion over his name and who he is. So I think the Baba Deep Singh would be good to keep. I understand where you are coming from, as the term "Baba" is a dime a dozen, just like "Sir" are too. Baba Deep Singh as a title would be appropriate I think, so as not to confuse researchers. Note to Misterconginialtastical- note wikipedia is about NPOV, and not adhering to any particular religious ideoligy, although uptmost care and sensitivity is taken in religious articles, wikipedia presents the facts as they are. Thanks --Sikh-history (talk) 06:35, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]


I thank you both for seeing the view and i suppose overreacted a little,i totally agree with what sikh history said Misterconginialtastical (talk) 12:09, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

File:Baba deep singh gather army.jpg Nominated for Deletion[edit]

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File:My portrait of Deep Singh.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion[edit]

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Please Respect The Martyr And Gurus[edit]

I read many articles of Sikh Gurus and Sikh Martyrs, and i found a big mistake, all articles name doesn't contain 'Ji'. Ji is a Punjabi words refers to respect someone. So please add Ji to name of all article of Sikh Gurus and Sikh Martyrs, including this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HSROYAL1999 (talk • contribs) 05:00, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Request for Undeletion of File:Baba_deep_singh_ji.jpg[edit]

My uploaded image Baba_deep_singh_ji.jpg was deleted by wiki members without any warning. Please don't delete that file. That's my own work. I doesn't want any profit from that image. And thus i release it to public domain and in wiki articles. SO please don't delete that file again. If anyone want proof, i will also send project file of that image. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by HSROYAL1999 (talk • contribs) 05:05, 29 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 13 October 2017[edit]

Baba Deep Singh was from a Mazhabi Sikh family Eklabhya (talk) 22:05, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Sakura Cartelet Talk 23:55, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 26 November 2017[edit]

Baba Deep Singh is actually a Mazhabi Sikh Sandhu family which has been stated in various different types of books and sites 115.188.148.54 (talk) 08:02, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Your request is not specific enough. The request must be of the form "please change X to Y". Please rephrase the request and post it again. Sincerely, Taketa (talk) 11:58, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Baba Deep Singh ji was not a member of Damdami Taksal (goonda taksal)[edit]

Baba Deep Singh ji was not a member of Damdami taksal (goonda nirmalia taksal) Asahota1699 (talk) 09:13, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

He was the the first jathedar of damdami taksal. Ranjeet Singh shergill (talk) 08:22, 16 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 May 2021[edit]

'Baba Parwaan Singh ji' reminded Baba Deep Singh "You had resolved to reach the periphery of the pool" Indrag (talk) 02:21, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. -- Asartea Talk | Contribs 10:31, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

X please change Y[edit]

Am proffesor khalsa singh Please write earlier Life Part

Baba Deeep singh was from Sandhu Mazhabi sikh Family not Jat singh family

hope your team correct this lines

Regards Proff Singh Seengh (talk) 12:09, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done, please provide reliable sources for this change. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:06, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Caste/clan[edit]

This post is in regard to the recent disruption by an SPA which resulted in extended protection of this page. Both caste and clan of the subject are covered in scholarly sources of the subject experts, i.e. historians specialising in Sikh history, e.g. W. H. McLeod,[1] Hari Ram Gupta[2] Louis E. Fenech,[3] Harbans Singh.[4] Bhagata Siṅgha,[5] etc. Note that the mention of his clan is also important, as he was member of a ruling clan. He founded an independency, known as Shahid Misl,[2] which was governed/ruled by his clansmen.[4][6] BTW, Mazhabi Sikhs,[7][8] or so-called Dalit/untouchable Sikhs,[9][10] did not found any of the twelve major misls.

References

References

  1. ^ McLeod, W. H. (1994). "The Hagiography of the Sikhs". In Callewaert, Winand M.; Snell, Rupert (eds.). According to Tradition: Hagiographical Writing in India. Harrassowitz Verlag. p. 38. ISBN 978-3-447-03524-8. Baba Dip Singh was a Jat from Lahore district, ...
  2. ^ a b Gupta, Hari Ram (2001) [1982]. History of the Sikhs: The Sikh Commonwealth or Rise and Fall of Sikh Misls. Vol. 4. Munshiram Manoharlal. p. 121. ISBN 978-81-215-0165-1. The founder of the Shahid misl was Dip Singh Nihang, a Sandhu Jat of Pohuwind village in Jalandhar district.
  3. ^ Fenech, Louis E. (2000). Martyrdom in the Sikh Tradition: Playing the "game of Love" (1st ed.). Oxford University Press. p. 98. ISBN 978-0-19-564947-5. The connection between the tenth Guru and Dip Singh is often elaborated in the tradition, but there is a relationship between this martyr and the first Guru which is expressed far more often. Note, for example, the most recent bazaar print of this exemplary Jat Sikh.
  4. ^ a b Singh, Harbans (1983). The Heritage of the Sikh (2nd ed.). Manohar. p. 142. ISBN 978-0-8364-1006-8. OCLC 954684247. Twelve Sikh independencies, known as Misls, had formed in this process of Punjab's emancipation. ... The Shahids, Sandhu Jats, descendants of honoured martyrs such as Baba Dip Singh, had their possessions in the present districts of Ambala (pargana of Shahzadpur), and Saharanpur, in Uttar Pradesh.
  5. ^ Siṅgha, Bhagata (1993). "The Shahid or Nihang Misal". A History of the Sikh Misals. Punjabi University. p. 241. OCLC 622730722. Deep Singh Shahid, a Sandhu Jat and resident of the village of Pohuwind of the pargana of Amritsar, was the founder of this Misal.
  6. ^ Dhavan, Purnima (2011). When Sparrows Became Hawks: The Making of the Sikh Warrior Tradition, 1699–1799. Oxford University Press. p. 60. ISBN 978-0-19-975655-1.
  7. ^ McLeod, W. H.; Fenech, Louis E. (2014). Historical Dictionary of Sikhism (3rd ed.). Rowman & Littlefield. p. 203. ISBN 978-1-4422-3600-4. MAZHABĪ. A Sikh from the Chuhra (sweeper) caste; an Outcaste Sikh.
  8. ^ Leslie, Julia (2018) [2003]. Authority and Meaning in Indian Religions: Hinduism and the Case of Valmiki. Routledge. p. 69. ISBN 978-1-138-70872-3. In the Panjab, for example, religious labels such as 'Hindu' or 'Sikh' are almost always understood to denote members of the 'higher' castes. As a result, whatever their chosen religion, Panjabi dalits are invariably defined by caste: either they are grouped together as 'untouchable' (or by a similarly demeaning label, such as 'Chuhra-Chamar') or they are marginalized as a sub-category of the religious tradition in question, such as 'Achut' ('untouchable') Hindu or 'Mazhabi' Sikh.
  9. ^ Sarkar, Jayabrata (2021). Politics as Social Text in India: The Bahujan Samaj Party in Uttar Pradesh. Routledge. p. 88. ISBN 978-0-367-34757-4. Out of the 28.3% of Dalit-Sikh population in Punjab, 31% are Mazhabis, 27% Chamar-Ramdassia Sikhs, 15% Adharmis and 12% Balmikis.
  10. ^ Barua, Pradeep P. (1998). "Ethnic Conflict in the Military of Developing Nations: A Comparative Analysis of India and Nigeria". In Karsten, Peter (ed.). Recruiting, Drafting, and Enlisting: Two Sides of the Raising of Military Forces. Taylor & Francis. p. 184. ISBN 978-0-81-532975-6. The Mazbhi Sikh is the "untouchable" of the Sikh community ...

- NitinMlk (talk) 22:54, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dubious source[edit]

This source is authored by a poet/writer. We need scholarly sources by historians for factual details about historical subjects like this one. So I will remove this from the article. BTW, it does support the relevant content of this article, as its page no. 51 mentions: "He was a Jat Sikh and belonged to a village named Pahuwind in Amritsar district. Born on January 27, 1682, at Pahuwind village, about 45 km from here, Baba Deep Singh, combined the qualities of a scholar with those of a freedom fighter." - NitinMlk (talk) 23:08, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 February 2022[edit]

Under the subheading of Early Life, the date of when Baba Deep Singh Ji went to Anandpur needs to be changed from 1700 to 1699. This is because on this date the panj pyaare were created and others were also given amrit including Baba Deep Singh Ji. It was also in 1699 when the Khalsa were created. This is a very important year to us, so please correct it. Thank you. Zustry (talk) 17:51, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:00, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not died at Darbar sahib[edit]

Baba deep singh g didn’t died at darbar sahib . Only his head reached their when he throws it but it is true , he died in Amritsar. There is a different gurdwara sahib where all last ritual happened. And the light burns their with ghee. 206.45.229.26 (talk) 04:52, 16 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 April 2022[edit]

Paramveerdiwan (talk) 14:35, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please Change baba deep singh ji Not Jat Sikh He is From Sandhu Mazhabi Sikh family Paramveerdiwan (talk) 14:36, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. 💜  melecie  talk - 14:42, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Caste[edit]

Baba Deep Singh ji was a kamboj. Many historical people said that he was a kamboj not a sandhu or etc.

You can search in google Deep Singh kamboj. What is you think about this? To my search accordingly Baba Deep Singh ji was/is a kamboj. Kulwinder chand (talk) 02:00, 26 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 November 2022[edit]

Baba Deep singh ji was belonged to a kamboj family so change caste column and write there he was a kamboj.I read history about the Baba Deep singh ji and also meet his family he also say he was kamboj sikh. so I humble request to you change caste and now write a Kamboj. 

thanks! Kulwinder Kamboj (talk) 06:43, 15 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 07:11, 15 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 January 2023[edit]

Change birthplace to Guram, Ludhiana Change Sandhu Jat to Deol Jat family.

Article is correct he was raised in Pahuwind (his mother’s ancestral home) but was born in Guram to a Deol Jay family. Book called Malwa Itihaas written by Das Visakha Singh Sant Sapahi Jenaitpuri also clarifies this on page 108. At the time he was referred to as Baba Deep Singh Guram. Using the village name instead of his family name. Hopefully this will be updated as he is an immensely important figure in the Sikh religion, thank you in advance for your time and efforts. 🙏🏽 2607:FEA8:2023:D500:D59E:B167:ACB3:6137 (talk) 22:26, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Lightoil (talk) 08:25, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Babaji Was Born In Guram, Ludhiana[edit]

Amar Shaheed Baba Deep Singh Ji was born in Guram, Ludhiana. His Nanke was in Pahuwind, hence being raised there. Later in life he came back to Guram and stored arms for Khalsa forces and was actually known as Baba Deep Singh Guram at the time. For any questioners we have literature to confirm this. Via Sikh scholars outside of Babajis village yet also including literature from the village Guram itself. We want to just clarify historical facts for the next Sikh generation. Nothing more but nothing less. 🙏🏽 2607:FEA8:2023:D500:B166:BEFC:4E6B:6987 (talk) 03:42, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2023[edit]

Baba Deep Singh as stated in Sikh history does not come from Jat family as he belong to Mazhabi community also called as Rangreta community..So please change this as the real history needs to be told to the people Wolfjsr2020 (talk) 14:44, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 17:14, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2023[edit]

Last picture of Baba deep singh ji in gallery with source "The tribune" is unreliable and doesnot look correct and should be removed. The source doesnot justify where they found that picture and where or who currently possess that picture. Sikhsingh (talk) 03:02, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. M.Bitton (talk) 23:08, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Needs enhanced protection[edit]

RegentsPark, this article needs extended-confirmed protection indefinitely, as the current level of protection has failed to stop the disruption. - NitinMlk (talk) 09:16, 31 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 30 January 2024[edit]

In the Punjabi version of this page, someone edited Baba Deep Singh Ji to be Ranghreta, but Baba Deep Singh Ji was from the Sandhu Jatt Sikh family, not the Mazhbhi Sikh family. In both the Hindi and English versions, Jatt Sikh is mentioned. Also, add the reference. Page No. 156 History OF SIKH MISALS - DR - Bhagat Singh. Publication Bureau, Punjabi University, 1993 - Punjab (India)

[1] Zaildaar95 (talk) 05:10, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Shadow311 (talk) 20:09, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.scribd.com/document/149028606/History-OF-SIKH-MISALS-Dr-Bhagat-Singh?fbclid=IwAR21avmOl8okecidf_RfLn2NTF1J1zSfGsOIZcoqwCetsYJBMV9wb0XB92E
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