Talk:Battle of Manila Bay
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Not a Mock Battle
This is indeed the Mock Battle of Manila Bay. The downfall of the Spanish Colonizers in the Philippines was in 1898 after the Mock Battle. Wherein the "winning" force will get to colonize the Philippine territory, which in this case, the Americans. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 15:21, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
Wasn’t this the “mock battle” they used to tell us about in high school and before that?
- I don't know. Was it? Are hundreds of people killed in mock battles? (SEWilco 23:27, 10 December 2006 (UTC))
[Governor-General] Jaudenes ... believed that the Spanish position was hopeless in the face of a superior enemy and in the face of the Filipino rebels. To save face, he insisted that to satisfy the Spanish code of honor, there should be a mock battle, after which the Spanish forces would surrender. He further insisted that the Filipino rebels should not be allowed to participate in the surrender of Manila, that is to say, they should not be allowed to enter the city. Dewey and Merritt accepted the terms even it meant treachery to their ally, General Aguinaldo. Dewey went so far as to promise to hold back the Filipino troops while the mock battle was being enacted. This agreement between Jaudenes, on one hand, and Dewey and Merritt, on the other, was so secret that no one else in either camp knew of its existence.
Uthanc 21:25, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
The battle you guys are quibbling about is the Battle of Manila (1898), which is a separate battle which took place in August 13, 1898 -- over three months after the battle described in this article. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 03:17, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
- That material was added in this edit (Revision as of 03:03, June 20, 2003), the second edit made to this article. The edit cited:
- Website: www.spanamwar.com - The Spanish-American War Centennial Website Guerrero, J. "In Guerro con Los Estados Unidos, 1898" Nofi, A. "The Spanish-American War, 1898"
- The account in http://www.spanamwar.com/mbay.htm contradicts this, saying, in part, "At 4:00 A.M., Montojo signaled his forces to prepare for action." and "The Americans finally spotted the Spanish vessels in their Cavite anchorage between Sangley Point and Las Pinas. At 5:15 a.m. the guns of the Cavite fortifications and the Spanish fleet opened fire. Dewey had his ships hold their fire until 5:40 A.M. Then, standing on the vessel's open bridge, he quietly told the OLYMPIA's captain, 'You may fire when ready, Gridley.'"
- I haven't seen the other named sources, and don't know what they say (Guerro 1898) is not mentioned in the current article revision; (Nofi 1898) is still mentioned in the Additional References section. http://www.spanamwar.com/mbay.htm is still mentioned in the article's References section, but the text in the article's Battle section currently cites Dewey's account as a supporting source, and that says, "About 5.05 the Luneta and two other Manila batteries opened fire. ..." I have changed the text of the opening paragraph of the Battle section to be compatible with the info in either of these two sources. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 21:12, 1 May 2008 (UTC).
I, too have looked around, using the cited and other sources, and have seen nothing about painting. Indeed, there is little saying that the Spanish were even caught unawares. Would recommend deleting that whole sentence, or at least reducing it to something along the lines of: the Spanish forces had been alerted, and most were ready for action. Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 14:40, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
At the beginning of the article it clearly states that 11 Spanish ships were involved in the engagement. However, below it is written that only 8 Spanish vessels were engaged.
- One supporting source cited in the article quotes Dewey as having said, "The Spanish line of battle was formed by the Reina Cristina (flag), Castilla, Don Juan de Austria, Don Antonio de Ulloa, Isla de Luzon, Isla de Cuba, and Marques del Duero." I count five ships there. Another source cited in the article lists nine US ships (two not engaged) and 13 Spanish ships (five not engaged and one not present). Yet another cited source says that the Spanish naval force consisted of seven unarmored ships. Craig L. Symonds; William J. Clipson (2001), "Battle of Manila Bay", The Naval Institute Historical Atlas of the U.S. Navy, Naval Institute Press, ISBN 9781557509840, not cited by the article, says that the Dewey's squadron included four cruisers (two armored), two gunboats, and one revenue cutter and that the Spanish fleet consisted of one modern cruiser half the size of Dewey's Olympia, one old wooden cruiser, and five gunboats. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 02:30, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Rodríguez González source
I just want to add some info re my two recent edits regarding this source. The key para seems to be the one which reads
En cuanto a las bajas, la cuestión no está tan clara como entre los españoles, tras varios partes contradictorios, se reconoció oficialmente un total de 1 muerto y doce heridos, cifras que rechazaron los españoles presentes, que afirmaron que los americanos ocultaban las suyas, y basándose en fuentes neutrales, las estimaron al menos en 13 muertos y 30 heridos. Tal vez Dewey quiso realmente ocultar las bajas a una opinión pública muy recelosa ante la aventura filipina, y para ello las camufló entre los doce muertos por enfermedad de su escuadra en la campaña, o las nada menos que 155 deserciones. Ya sabemos que muchos de sus marineros no eran ciudadanos norteamericanos, y a nadie le importaría demasiado el destino de uno de ellos, especialmente si era asiático, como era corriente entre fogoneros y los puestos más humildes.
which Google Translate renders into English as
As for casualties, the issue is not as clear as among the Spaniards, after several conflicting parties, a total of 1 dead and twelve injured was officially recognized figures who rejected the Spaniards present, who said that Americans hid his, and based on neutral sources, they estimated at least 13 dead and 30 wounded. Perhaps Dewey really wanted to hide the low public opinion very suspicious to the Philippine adventure, and for this purpose the camouflaged among the twelve of his squad killed by disease in the campaign, or no less than 155 desertions. We know that many of its sailors were not US citizens, and no one would care too the fate of one of them, especially if it was Asian, as was common among stokers and the humblest positions.