Talk:Charles J. Fisher

This article was nominated for deletion on 5 December 2009 (UTC). The result of the discussion was no consensus.

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The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view.

Historian4Hire (talk · contribs) This user has contributed to the article. This user has declared a connection. (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Garvanza,_Los_Angeles&diff=prev&oldid=641057846)

Discussion

Charles J. Fisher is a noted local historian who has successfully nominated almost 100 interesting historic Los Angeles buildings to become Historic-Cultural Monuments. Expanding Charlie's page with his information on his landmarks could potentially dramatically increase the Los Angeles history knowledge base on Wikipedia.

Thank you

Wikigratia

This article is not an appropriate way to create a list of historic Los Angeles buildings. Frankly, I notice the top Google result for "Charles J. Fisher" is his website www.historian4hire.com and I strongly suspect this whole article is just self-promotion of his business, which appears to be helping people get historic-home status for their houses so they can score a tax break.

More to the point: to the extent notability is claimed for his status as a historian, the article does not indicate that Charles J. Fisher meets a single one of the notability guidelines for academics. Helping people negotiate the historic-registration process is a matter of paperwork. What is this man's contribution to history, except as a functionary who has garnered no apparent recognition in the field?

However, I've removed the speedy-delete tag since at least a theoretical case for notability has been made, and substituted a PROD tag

Update: BTW, welcome to Wikipedia and all that -- please don't take my comments about the article personally. Whatever the outcome on this article, thanks for contributing! --Glenfarclas (talk) 09:17, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Update: Glenfarclas, thank you for your comments, and for removing the speedy deletion tag. I appreciate your desire to separate Wikipedia from those who would corrupt it to serve their commercial interests. This whole article is indeed not just self-promotion of his business. In fact, Charlie did not know I initiated it. I believe that Charlie's contribution to history is that he has been directly or indirectly responsible for approximately one out of every three historic buildings that are spared in Los Angeles. The fact that these building still stand and contribute to the community in which they reside is a testament to the effectiveness of his work, and its ultimate impact on society. His knowledge of Los Angeles history and architecture is a matter of passion, and if academic pedigree is a strict and dogmatic criterion upon which Wikipedia bases its evaluation of notability, it is a grave loss for Wikipedia.

Having said that, if the consensus is that Wikipedia would be better off without referencing the champion of many historic buildings, it doesn't matter to me. My aim is to add to the body of knowledge on Wikipedia, and I saw many references to historic monuments with little substantive content beyond address, date declared, and monument name and number. Charlie's descriptions of historical significance of the monuments he has supported make currently available information much more robust. However, if consensus indicates that such information is not of value to the Wikipedia community, I will be very disappointed in Wikipedia and my colleagues, but that is all. I am not Charles J. Fisher, nor am I in any way affiliated with him financially. I value his work, and it will continue with or without a profile on Wikipedia.

thank you

Wikigratia```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikigratia (talk • contribs) 21:19, 4 December 2009 (UTC) 68.149.178.26 (talk) 00:13, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Adding signature, same date: 68.149.178.26 (talk) 00:14, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your thoughtful comments, Wikigratia. I'm glad to hear that this article isn't for the self-promotion of a business, although I think many readers would find it to be written in more of a personal and laudatory style than would be appropriate for an encyclopedia. However, you seem to be saying that this article is worthwhile because it would be a convenient place to amass information about certain historical structures in Los Angeles. But Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, so if you have valuable information about buildings, it belongs on pages for those buildings if they are notable enough to exist themselves. The question here is whether Charles J. Fisher is notable as a person or as an academic (an academic pedigree is certainly not required; it's just one possible indicium of notability), and I don't see that he meets any of the accepted guidelines.

As I said before, please don't take this as a personal attack. This deletion discussion doesn't mean that Charlie Fisher isn't a valuable member of LA society, or that you don't have important information to contribute about the history of Los Angeles buildings. But this article isn't the right place to collect that information. --Glenfarclas (talk) 03:31, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Update:Glenfarclas, I offer my sincere appreciation to you for your guidance, specifically that 1) I should follow the Manual_of_Style_(biographies). I have updated the text accordingly. Thank you; and 2) that I should add content to currently existing pages on notable buildings. I will begin that process, I have found several stubs and links to numerous non-existent pages. Creating these additions will take a very long time, since almost 100 buildings qualify.

I have reviewed the guidelines for notability as a person and I believe that Charlie qualifies. For example, he recognized the Purviance Residence as an early Schindler design and nominated it as a monument simply because the structure is historic and should be spared. The Cultural Affairs department rejected the application, but ultimately community support for saving the historic residence spurred Eric Garcetti to intercede on behalf of the Purviance Residence, which was declared June 21, 2006. There are numerous similar examples where Charlie has worked on his own to preserve historic structures, or when he has donated his efforts to apartment residents' groups or to neighborhood councils. Unfortunately, I do not have much of the biographical information that should be posted there.

Glenfarclas, I value your comments. I do not take them as a personal attack. In fact, I suspect you volunteer your time to build Wikipedia into a sound virtual community where excellent work is valued and preserved, much the way Charlie feels about the historic structures and communities he helps preserve.

thank you,

Wikigratia Wikigratia (talk) 03:54, 6 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Update: Thank you Optigan13 for adding WikiProject Biography and WikiProject California notations. Wikigratia (talk) 16:45, 7 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I have added 54 references to the article including a Los Angeles Times article and numerous City of Los Angeles public documents, satisfying the notability requirements, specifically, "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikigratia (talk • contribs) 17:40, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Update: While I appreciate Fences and Window's efforts to streamline this article, I have undone the table deletion and clarified it to augment clarity in order to not appear indiscriminate. Per wikipedia's guide to discriminate vs. indiscriminate information, ^[1], "...an indiscriminate collection of information would be a collection of information gathered "without care or making distinctions" or in a "thoughtless" manner." The table is a compendium of Los Angeles Historic Cultural Monuments (HCMs) all successfully nominated by Fisher. The table is organized in order of monument number. Wikigratia (talk) 19:17, 19 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Discriminate_vs_indiscriminate_information

Ser Amantio di Nicolao

Thank you for the better word choice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikigratia (talk • contribs) 21:17, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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Charlie Fisher

Is this the same Charlie Fisher who owns a bunch of cars in a parking-constrained neighborhood?

https://www.theeastsiderla.com/news/news_briefs/highland-parks-noted-preservationist---and-his-28-cars/article_d862be32-1428-11eb-a1d6-771fa3701557.html

weird how this article (vanity page perhaps) doesn't mention this at all. riffic (talk) 19:09, 17 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Discriminate_vs_indiscriminate_information

[1]