Talk:Delphi Schools

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External links modified[edit]

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An essay re Delphi[edit]

Placing here the link to an essay removed from the main article but which may have some value to editors wanting to research this topic to expand this article.

Grorp (talk) 03:45, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[edit]

@Hipal: Could you please elaborate on why you think the article needs an advert tag? What would you like to see done with the article (additions, subtractions, changes, etc.)? Grorp (talk) 03:49, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The references and their use.
I'm still getting up to speed on the larger situation here. You have a WP:COI?
I've updated their official website link and removed twice now the link for Heron Books. This article is about Delphi Schools. See WP:ELOFFICIAL. --Hipal (talk) 21:04, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Hipal: No COI, just a disagreement on the tag and the removal of the external link. You says you are still getting up to speed on the larger situation here. What do you mean by that? You aren't new to Wikipedia with over 100,000 edits, so what "situation" are you referring to?
The reason I added the external link for heronbooks.com is because I'm the one who merged the article Heron Books into this Delphi article. Per the Oregon Secretary of State business search, Heron Book, Inc. was a separate corporation until 2005 when they dissolved it and made it an assumed name for Delphi Schools, Inc.. So this article is where the Heron Books content should go. (Both articles were practically stubs, so why not merge them.)
Delphi is separately notable both for being a school and for the line of books it publishes under a separate label (Heron Books), so it fulfills WP:ELOFFICIAL's requirements. But I never positioned it to be a Template:Official website but merely an external link. Per WP:EL, External links in an article can be helpful to the reader, but they should be kept minimal, meritable, and directly relevant to the article. It is all of those things.
There is no reasonable Wikipedia guideline that would exclude adding a link to heronbooks.com in this Wikipedia article, and trying to remove it here is just being pedantic. It is appropriate to put it here. In my opinion it is of interest to see what sorts of books an Applied Scholastics affiliated school is selling for the teaching of students. Like this link https://www.heronbooks.com/learningandlifeskills or this one https://www.heronbooks.com/educators; both represent all the core Scientology subjects.
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Ultimately, the target audience is the reader—someone who is curious about a subject and wants more information. What about people who get ahold of book and it says "Heron Books" inside. Maybe they want to use Wikipedia to find out more about it and there it is! What about homeschooling parents who are being suggested to buy Heron Books for their child's education? Or parents considering sending their child to one of these APS-affiliated schools? Many of those schools use Heron Books instead of the older books that were published by Applied Scholastics, printed using Bridge Publications print machines, and whose titles still have bad public relations because of the many investigative news articles that were written exposing the charade (the hiding of the Scientology connection). Wouldn't such parents want to know the affiliation? The Church of Scientology is going to extreme lengths to distance themselves with exactly this type of promotion of "Hubbard study technology" to make it harder for people to notice the connection on their own.
What I find odd is that a corporation, not owned by Scientology (such as Delphi Schools, Inc.) is publishing these Scientology/APS topics at all, rather than Delphi buying the books from APS. A google search turns up this warning from Mike Rinder and then there's this promotion from a homeschooler promoting Heron Books for homeschoolers, and this interesting article. I'm sure there are more, but investigative reporting has dwindled with the collapse of the newspaper industry and I doubt Heron Books has attracted the interest of the remaining hired journalists; everything is going freelance, influencers, and social media these days. There's no shortage of coverage by these sources, which Wikipedia assigns a lesser value on the RS scale.
Could this article be expanded more than the barely-a-stub it is? Sure. What else do you think needs to be done here? If something needs doing, then I can try to make some headway on it, but I'm not a mind reader. Grorp (talk)
Sorry for the COI question. I was confusing you with another editor. I was looking at the history of this and some related articles, as well as WP:ARBSCI. I tend to avoid Scientology-related articles because of the problems Wikipedians have had with such articles. The special sanctions have been rescinded, but I'm treading with care regardless.
WP:EL tends to be followed very strictly. Can we put it aside and focus on the article content?
I wrote, This article is about Delphi Schools. Heron books was deemed not notable. We shouldn't be using this as a coatrack for it.
The article should be rewritten from independent sources. If there are only a few, or none with any depth, then it will be difficult to expand beyond a stub article. --Hipal (talk) 01:26, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Apology accepted (about the COI). I'm aware there was an ARBCOM and aware it's a hot topic. However, anyone looking at my edits in this area could easily see that I edit pretty neutrally and I try very hard to stick to RS.
Heron Books was not deemed not notable. I made a judgment call that it would fit better in this article. (Honestly, it happened as tangential work because I was working on a citation of a book that was published by "a" Heron Books and it was not this Heron Books, and was looking for a wiki article to link the publisher to.) Here is the last version of the article before I turned it into a redirect. [1] Would you prefer I put it back? I think it belongs here... with its EL. I'm quite sure there are plenty of reliable sources that could be quoted... if someone put in the work. I have other things I consider more important than to spend any more time on this particular subject (and couldn't care less if it never expanded beyond stub-like). Grorp (talk) 02:16, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's not notable with those refs. Best to find some WP:CORP refs first. --Hipal (talk) 16:37, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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