Talk:Endosulfan

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Untitled[edit]

Organochlorine or Organophosphate ?? someone from a chemical background please advise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.165.186.124 (talk) 12:50, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

OrganochlorineYilloslime (t) 17:45, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Endosulfan in capsized ship in Philippines, June 22[edit]

On June 27, Philippine government authorities reported that a container-load of Endosulfan went down with the ship MV Princess of the Stars during typhoon Fengshen. It had been illegally loaded on to this passenger ship, although the Del Monte company that owned the shipment expected that it would be legally loaded on a cargo-only ship. Del Monte reported the issue to the shipping company, Sulpicio Lines, and to the Philippines government on June 25. The issue became prominent in Philippine media on June 27, when divers seeking to recover bodies were removed from the area, and sent for toxicity examinations.

The restricted status of Endosulfan in the Philippines was confirmed by Dr. Norlito Vicana, Executive Director, Fertilizer and Pesticide Authority, Department of Agriculture in a televised phone call on the all-news channel ANC on June 27. He explicitly said that Endosulfan is not banned. I don't know how to add footnotes, perhaps somebody could assist in providing a note on the source of the restriction.

- Fred K. Fbkintanar (talk) 05:11, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I was wondering why this was moved to talk instead of the main page. This is a current event with possibly dire environmental consequences. The amount of endosulfan is 10 Metric Tons held in plastic bags tied with wire wrap and placed in a forty-foot container. the site of the sinking is in Central Philippines, an archipelagic region whose primary non-urban source of livelihood is fishing.Maccess (talk) 11:43, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
I was wondering about the same thing. I suppose this went under the radar of the WikiNews contributors. Perhaps someone should send a note to them? --Animeronin (talk) 01:19, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Stereochemistry for Ensdosulfan?[edit]

Does Endosulfan have expressed stereochemistry and should it be defined in the IUPAC Name? On ChemSpider there are two structures. One with stereobonds and one without

http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.3111.html
http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.21117730.html

Is the one with stereobonds correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChemSpiderMan (talkcontribs) 17:24, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

The one with stereobonds is the correct one, as it also shows possible stereocenters, as well as the chirality of the molecule itself. Animeronin (talk) 10:57, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

in Brazil[edit]

I think the recent ambiental disaster in Rio Pirapetinga, near Resende, Rio de Janeiro, was caused by this product: news, in Portuguese. Albmont (talk) 15:44, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you and reasons to defend for my article[edit]

Dear Yilloslime,

I am new to the editing and contribution to Wikipedia. Thank you for giving me the idea of minor edit.

There were some factual errors in your earlier article thats why I have edited it. Please look into the same.

Please see that the "Organochlorine of cyclodiene group familiy" is categorised by IUPAC. It has been used by all these countries currently. The product is neurotoxic to insects but not in human and US-EPA has proved the same in developmental neurotoxicity.

Please quote authentic sources and not like PAN.

WHO also classifies it as moderately hazardous and not highly toxic. Please look into WHO.

In Padre, village in Kerela it was not the only pesticide. It was one among many. Not a single people has died from this also. Please use right to information act in India to check for the authenticity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pseudomonas8250 (talkcontribs) 04:59, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Let's go point by point.
  1. The version of the article before you began editing it (see here for the old version) already noted that it is a cyclodiene insecticide, so your change was redundant.
  2. It is also acutely neurotoxic to both insects and mammals, as any number sources including the ATSDR, EPA, and WHO attest. The article never claimed it was a developmental neurotoxin.
  3. I'm not sure what you mean by "authentic sources", but here at wikipedia, we are required to use reliable sources. All of the sources cited are reliable (by the wikipedia definition).
  4. The article already contained the sentence "The US EPA classifies it as Category I: 'Highly Acutely Toxic' based on a LD50 value of 30 mg/kg for female rats,[8] while the World Health Organization classifies it as Class II 'Moderately Hazardous' based on a rat LD50 of 80 mg/kg.[23]" so I'm not sure what your point is.
  5. Finally, with regard to the Kerala situation: per the wikipedia policies of verifiability and no original research we have to stick to what the sources say, and the source we have says that only endosulfan was used. If you could point us to the "right to information act in India" we could incorporate it into the article, assuming it meets wikipedia's criteria for reliable sources.
Also, please explain how your introduction:

Endosulfanis a non-systemic Organochlorine of cyclodiene group familiy. The insecticide has acaricdal properties that has been in used extensively in several agriculturally important countries such as China, India, USA, Brazil, Argentina, Australia, Canada, Mexico, Israel, Nigeria, Sudan etc. These countries account for more than 50% of world’s area under agriculture. Endosulfan is either restricted or phased out in few countries including European Union, Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, Canada, Benin, South Africa and New Zealand. It is made by Bayer crop science, Makhteshim-Agan, Excel Crop Care, Coromandel Fertilisers Limited and a Government of India Owned Hindustan Insecticides Limited and sold under the brand names of Thiodan, Endocel, Hildan, Parrysulfan, Thionex, Phaser and Benzoepin.

WHO classifies the molecule as Moderately hazardous pesticide. It is quite safe pesticides for pollinators like Honey bees and other parasites and predators unlike the neo-nicotinoids which causes major colony collapse in France. It is highly toxic to fish and other aquatic organisms. It is recommended and used for control of insects pests and mites on fruits, vegetables, coffee, tea, spices, flowers, forage crops and non food crops such as cotton & tobacco. In addition to its agricultural use, Endosulfan has recently been allowed in USA as a veterinary insecticide for use as ear tag in both lactating and beef cattle for control of insect parasites. Endosulfan is under review by Stockholm Convention and Rotterdam Conventions.

is an improvement to the old intro:

Endosulfan is a neurotoxic organochlorine insecticide. It is an endocrine disruptor and is highly acutely toxic. Banned in more than 50 countries, including the European Union and several Asian and West African nations,[1] it is still used extensively in many other countries including India, Brazil, and Australia. It is produced by Bayer CropScience, Makhteshim Agan, and government-of-India-owned Hindustan Insecticides Limited among others, and sold under the tradenames Thionex, Endocil, Phaser, and Benzoepin. Because of its high toxicity and high potential for bioaccumulation and environmental contamination, a global ban on the use and manufacture of endosulfan is being considered under the Stockholm Convention.[2]

Your edits have introduced spelling and grammatical errors, poor formatting (e.g. it lacks wikilinks), redundant info (e.g. WHO classification), uncited accusations (e.g. neonicotinoids cause CCD; endosulfan is "safe" for honeybees), and what appears to be original research (e.g. that China, India, USA, Brazil, Argentina, Australia, Canada, Mexico, Israel, Nigeria, Sudan, etc. account for more than 50% of world’s area under agriculture.) So, I fail to see how your new intro is any improvement.Yilloslime (t) 06:19, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Dear Yilloslime,

Points well taken. Let me put my points and hope that we will come to an consensus and with your expertise in wikipedia this changes will come in place.

Please note the following points for and against what you have communicated.

Let's go point by point. 1. The version of the article before you began editing it (see here for the old version) already noted that it is a cyclodiene insecticide, so your change was redundant.

  The version does not denote that it is a cyclodience insecticide at the first place. It just says that it is an organochlorine. Thus this is an improvement.

2. It is also acutely neurotoxic to both insects and mammals, as any number sources including the ATSDR, EPA, and WHO attest. The article never claimed it was a developmental neurotoxin.

  Thanks for the insight. I belive this insecticide was suppose to work as a neurotoxic agent to insects. As for the mammals i do not think that sufficient literature has been developed.

3. I'm not sure what you mean by "authentic sources", but here at wikipedia, we are required to use reliable sources. All of the sources cited are reliable (by the wikipedia definition).


   Thanks for the insight.

4. The article already contained the sentence "The US EPA classifies it as Category I: 'Highly Acutely Toxic' based on a LD50 value of 30 mg/kg for female rats,[8] while the World Health Organization classifies it as Class II 'Moderately Hazardous' based on a rat LD50 of 80 mg/kg.[23]" so I'm not sure what your point is.


        This point is well taken.

5. Finally, with regard to the Kerala situation: per the wikipedia policies of verifiability and no original research we have to stick to what the sources say, and the source we have says that only endosulfan was used. If you could point us to the "right to information act in India" we could incorporate it into the article, assuming it meets wikipedia's criteria for reliable sources.

For kerela please look into http://www.cibrc.nic.in/250rc.doc. It is self explanatory.

YOUR INTRODUCTION:-

Endosulfan is a neurotoxic organochlorine insecticide. It is an endocrine disruptor and is highly acutely toxic. Banned in more than 50 countries, including the European Union and several Asian and West African nations,[1] it is still used extensively in many other countries including India, Brazil, and Australia. It is produced by Bayer CropScience, Makhteshim Agan, and government-of-India-owned Hindustan Insecticides Limited among others, and sold under the tradenames Thionex, Endocil, Phaser, and Benzoepin. Because of its high toxicity and high potential for bioaccumulation and environmental contamination, a global ban on the use and manufacture of endosulfan is being considered under the Stockholm Convention.[2] Your edits have introduced spelling and grammatical errors, poor formatting (e.g. it lacks wikilinks), redundant info (e.g. WHO classification), uncited accusations (e.g. neonicotinoids cause CCD; endosulfan is "relatively less toxic to honeybees) , and what appears to be original research (e.g. that China, India, USA, Brazil, Argentina, Australia, Canada, Mexico, Israel, Nigeria, Sudan, etc. account for more than 50% of world’s area under agriculture.) So, I fail to see how your new intro is any improvement.Yilloslime (t) 06:19, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


Please note below.

“It is concluded from the APVMA re-examination of possible endocrine disruption caused by endosulfan that, from a public health perspective, there are no compelling reasons to change the conclusions of the APVMA interim report on the endocrine disrupting potential of endosulfan. While the effects seen in wildlife indicate that endosulfan may have endocrine disrupting potential in some species, the overall weight of evidence is that endosulfan has limited endocrine disrupting potential in mammals. Furthermore, while endosulfan may be relatively persistent in the environment and is capable of long-range transfer, it does not appear to bioaccumulate. The endocrine disrupting potential of endosulfan is not a significant risk to public health under the risk management controls and health standards established by the recent review.”

Australian Pesticides & Veterinary Medicines Authority Canberra Australia FINAL REVIEW REPORT AND REGULATORY DECISION, The reconsideration of approval of the active constituent Endosulfan, registrations of products containing Endosulfan and their associated labels, Review Series 2 June 2005, page 57-59


Please read this part from APVMA report on endosulfan. Thus to iterate that it is an endocrine disruptor has also many implications. I hope that these changes will be taken as you are the administrator also.


Please read APVMA and please look into the comparison APVMA has with EPA. It also details that Endosulfan does not bio-accumulate.

USEPA itself has rated that endosulfan is less toxic to honeybees.

“……Compared to those that are registered, including the organophosphates, malathion and dimethoate, endosulfan is less toxic to honey bees, which are crucial to the pollination of the alfalfa crop. Lygus bugs can also migrate to other crops, including dry beans. The Agency considers this use to be beneficial to both seed alfalfa and cotton growers in California, and minimizes resistance issues that would arise from sole reliance on pyrethroids……” (RED-Re registration Eligibility Document of EPA).Pseudomonas8250: Pseudomonas8250 (talk) 08:41, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

The second sentence of the Chemistry section notes that endosulfan is a cyclodiene insecticide. I don't think we need to note this in the lead of the article, as it is a technical point that is probably lost on most readers. The document you linked to regarding the Kerala situation does not appear to back up your assertion that other pesticides were used there. I say it "does not to appear to" because I haven't read all 15 pages--I simplied searched for "Kerala" and read those paragraphs. If it does address this point somewhere, kindly let my know what page and/or section. Also, I don't think this document qualifies as a reliable source. It's simply the minutes to a meeting. Reliable sources meeting wikipedia's standards are things that have been published by independent sources with a reputation for accuracy and fact checking. Those minutes don't appear to be published. Finally, w/r/t honeybee toxicity, thanks for pointing out that the EPA RED says it's less toxic than organophosphates. This is probably worth mentioning, though I've got to run and can't do it right at this minute. Yilloslime TC 16:35, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Update: I've incorporated the info on honeybees.[1] Yilloslime TC 20:44, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

http://www.endosulphanvictims.org/[edit]

[2] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.90.167.31 (talk) 11:45, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

terpene similarity[edit]

This chemical resembles a terpene structure too much to be a coincidence. Why does everyone ignore the science part and hop on the ligitation? John Riemann Soong (talk) 00:00, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Added to Rotterdam convention[edit]

Endosulfan has been added to the Rotterdam convention on 24 October 2011. Polypipe Wrangler (talk) 07:12, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

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Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Endosulfan/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Last edited at 16:54, 17 February 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 14:29, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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  1. ^ Cite error: The named reference aus was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  2. ^ Cite error: The named reference Stockholm was invoked but never defined (see the help page).