Talk:Falange Española de las JONS

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Archive 1

Symbolism And The Five Arrows[edit]

"Symbols Yoke and arrows, the symbol of the Catholic Monarchs." Actually the 5 Arrows are the symbol of the 5 Rothschild brothers. The meaning of the 5 Arrows explained at the Rothschild barons' website:

"In acknowledgement of their dynamic services, the Rothschilds were knighted by Emperor Franz I of Austria in September 1822. They and all their descendants were raised to the title of Baron. They adopted a coat of arms displaying 5 inter-connected arrows in tribute to a legend Mayer Amschel, the founder of the Rothschild dynasty, used to tell his five sons: “Taken one by one, the five arrows are easy to break. Taken together, they are resistant. Always remain united”." 83.84.100.133 (talk) 12:51, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.champagne-bdr.com/en/250-years-of-history/

Role of the Church[edit]

Could someone provide more information about the role of the Catholic Church in this group? Other entries for fascist groups make it clear how closely they worked together. --192.223.243.6 (talk) 18:37, 30 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Concur. On a larger scale, this article needs a description of their political platform. 155.213.224.59 (talk) 19:08, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

FET y de las JONS[edit]

Modified name of movement to track Spanish language entry for the Party, see http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falange_Espa%C3%B1ola_Tradicionalista_y_de_las_Juntas_de_Ofensiva_Nacional_Sindicalista — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.103.104.11 (talk) 14:26, 31 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ceased to be fascist?[edit]

"After the party was coopted by Francisco Franco and consolidated with the Carlists, it ceased to have a fascist character (to the extent Fascism is considered revolutionary) inasmuch as Franco was a Monarchist, although it retained many of the external trappings of Fascism"

Dear Dear wikipedists, what an eclectic and clever apology for Franco's dictatorial rule — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:7:8500:982:C4B8:E66B:E68A:9D29 (talk) 22:50, 27 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It is widely recognized as being an authoritarian conservative nationalist movement under the leadership of Franco that while emulating fascism to appeal for support from fascists in Spain and abroad in the 1930s and 1940s, did not have the radical transformative goals of fascism. The Falange is recognized as fascist during Primo de Rivera's leadership. Franco took control of the party and turned it into a Nationalist version of the Republicans' Popular Front movement, incorporating conservative, clerical, and monarchist parties into the Falange. This is not an "apology" for Franco, it is what most scholars regard his regime as, that accusation is slandering editors being apologist is not following the Wikipedia policy of assuming good faith from editors. Please be more constructive with your criticisms.--74.12.195.73 (talk) 17:15, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Title change, violation of WP:COMMON NAME[edit]

The previous title of the article that was simply "Falange" represented WP:COMMON NAME, the current name does not represent WP:COMMON NAME, and is one of several Spanish variations of the title - this one in partial short form, another in long form, and the third in full short form (FE y de las JONS). The current title is not the common name and there has been no justification given why the previous title "Falange" is inappropriate for this article.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.55.9.248 (talk • contribs) 06:55, 1 February 2015

Page name move[edit]

Why was the page moved without discussion? Ogress _smash! 02:13, 26 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There should be three articles:

Falange Española, currently redirects here
Falange Española de las Juntas de Ofensiva Nacional Sindicalista, currently Falange Española y de las JONS, which is incorrect
Falange Española Tradicionalista y de las Juntas de Ofensiva Nacional Sindicalista

The title Falange ought to redirect to one of these; currently it redirects to the last. We also have Falangism, which is a possible rediret target. Srnec (talk) 17:33, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello @Impru20: The name is more commonly left in its Spanish original form rather than using an English translation, even in English-language literature. Taking google books as an indicator, I get 12 hits for "Spanish Falange of the JONS" vs. nearly 40 English-language hits for "Falange Española de las JONS". If you want to move the article, please make a formal request and let others join in the discussion, weighing the arguments of WP:COMMONNAME and WP:USEENGLISH. Kind regards, --RJFF (talk) 13:25, 6 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@RJFF: No issues. I just moved it thinking the name was wrongly left in its Spanish form, but if it was indeed intended there is no problem. Impru20 (talk) 14:04, 6 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Impru20: It would be an awkward mix of English and Spanish, as Falange and JONS are Spanish, anyway. A real English translation would be "Spanish Phalanx of the Committees for the National-Syndicalist Offensive" but this is rarely used. In this case, it is more consequent to keep the Spanish name, like the bulk of English-language literature seems to do. --RJFF (talk) 14:14, 6 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment[edit]

@Havsjö: Which is the purpose of the article "falangism". Is it really written as an article about an ideology? I see nothing but haphazardness aside from the 27 points. Not really useful to convey any core ideology.--Asqueladd (talk) 00:43, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Falange is not fascist. Change it.[edit]

The conception of the state have a lot of difference. Falange is municipalist and want a National-Syndicalist Repúblic of workers. It's anti-capitalist (read the books of José Antonio and Onésimo Redondo) and spanish nationalism, but it's not fascism! Fascism is autoritarian, falangism not. Fascism is from Mussolini, Falange is from José Antonio. Librepensador0808 (talk) 18:35, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think this is a case of WP:IDONTLIKEIT and WP:SOAPBOXING. I don't know where did you get the crackpot idea that "Falange" wasn't Fascist, at odds with the entire body of academia. Every authoritative scholar recognizes FE de las JONS in the scope of the Fascist momentum of the 1930s. The Fascist character of FE de las JONS is cut and dried as far as the entire corpus of sources go. As you pride yourself to be a librepensador [sic] ("freethinker") with additional "0808" stuff, you can stick to your personal views if that makes you feel better of course, but please don't distort the entry with the nonsense above.--Asqueladd (talk) 19:33, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Falange" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

The redirect Falange has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 June 3 § Falange until a consensus is reached. 64.229.90.172 (talk) 17:59, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]