Talk:Fasting/Archive 2

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3

Article to add as an "Additional Reference"

In the current issue of Harper's Magazine, March 2012, pages 27-38, there's an article called "Starving Your Way to Vigor". The author, Steve Hendricks, gives a history from the 1800s to present research of fasting for improved health and his own experiences with it. He's a bit miffed at the medical establishment for not researching more the effects of fasting and thinks a ketogenic diet is more rare than it is (though it's pretty unusual), but the article is quite readable and his insights into how he was feeling on specific days is absorbing. He fasted until he lost 45 lbs, about 19 days, while still running about 2 miles per day. If your library subscribes to the magazine, you might find it worth your time to read the article. Here's the webpage, but one must have a paid subscription in order to read it there: http://harpers.org/archive/2012/03/0083829 Cheers, but not Cheerios! Wordreader (talk) 18:42, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Deleted dead link

Link to Darfur fast was dead. If it still exists someone should post the correct address


Health Effects - Dispute - unable to find good sources - despite not having good sources, all sources seem to say that body starts breaking down muscle before fat - the wikipedia article doesn't site any sources regarding this - what is the truth???

This is regarding the following quoted text in the "Health Effects" section, "... If glucose is still denied at this point, muscle wasting is prevented by temporarily switching to fat as the fuel source, meaning fat is converted into ketone bodies through catabolism. Ketones, while not sugars, can be used by the brain as a fuel source as long as glucose is denied. The body continues to use fat for as long as there is fat to consume. The body will generally indicate to the faster when fat levels are running extremely low..."

My friend was trying to tell me that the body tends to burn muscle first before fast when responding to starvation, and they disputed the statements made in the article under discussion. Upon a google search, no really great sources could be found about this, and many sources say that muscle is burned first, however I suspect this may be a myth because some of the more reliable sources actually say that fat is burned first and acknowledge the dispute as well.

Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation_response#Process says that fat from adipose tissue is broken down into glycerol and fatty acids (it does not site any sources either!!!) and fatty acids cannot be used by the brain as a fuel, which is different and maybe exclusively true in relation to what is said in this article.

Anyways, this section sites absolutely no sources - along with the fact that no great sources could be found by me about this means that this article needs to be improved in this way. BriEnBest (talk) 19:36, 31 October 2011 (UTC)


Health effects are important. The article seems to focus mainly on the practices of world religions. Could we have some actual science in here? For instance does prolonged fasting have a diruretic effect? I know that it does but I have no sources and I would like to see some. - Robertsmom 70.24.207.206 (talk) 14:31, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Internally contradictory sentence: A statistically insignificant reduction in HDL cholesterol was also observed.

The sentence says:

  • HDL cholesterol reduction was statistically insignificant

but the sentence concludes with:

  • ...was also observed

To a casual reader this translates into "a small reduction of HDL was observed", which is wrong, because no such conclusion can be drawn from the data, so it comes close to being a weasel sentence, though probably inadvertently. The original sentence in the cited paper reads "the change in end- HDL cholesterol in fasters (4.6% decline) was not significant".

I suggest two resolutions:

  1. The sentence should be removed entirely. This is my recommendation, since what the article really says is "we don't know".
  2. Change the sentence into "No conclusions could be drawn about the effects of fasting on HDL cholesterol." or similar.

Skaranko (talk) 13:59, 8 August 2012 (UTC)


Fasting In the Media

a potential inlusion of a 'Fasting in the media' section

Potential edited summary write up on documentary: "The Franco-German television channel ARTE aired a documentary on fasting. The program examines the potential role to be played by fasting in the healthcare systems of industrialized countries, including in the treatment of diabetes, hypertension, obesity, and cancer, and as a way to reduce the potential overconsumption of pharmaceuticals. The film spotlights five major centers of fasting: In Germany, the film profiles the Buchinger Clinic in Überlingen, as well as the Department of Natural Medicine at the Charité University Hospital in Berlin. At the Centre National de Recherche Scientifique in Strasbourg, France, Professor Yvon Le Maho and his team investigate instinctive fasting in the animal kingdom."

Original Write up on the documentary from one of the sources: "Fasting as medical therapy is now experiencing a revival thanks to the groundbreaking research by Professor Valter Longo in the areas of anti-aging and cancer therapy. The Franco-German television channel ARTE aired an excellent scientific documentary on fasting. Produced by the renowned French documentary duo, Sylvie Gilman and Thierry Vincent de Lestrade, the program examines the potential role to be played by fasting in the healthcare systems of industrialized countries, including in the treatment of diabetes, hypertension, obesity, and cancer, and as a way to reduce the explosive overconsumption of pharmaceuticals. In presenting fasting as a proven complementary therapy, the film spotlights five major centers of fasting science and therapy: In Germany, the film profiles the Buchinger Clinic in Überlingen, as well as the Department of Natural Medicine at the Charité University Hospital in Berlin. At the Buchinger Clinics in Überlingen and Marbella, more than 250,000 fasting therapies have been medically supervised in the last 60 years. The Buchinger Clinics are Europe’s largest clinics for therapeutic fasting and have profound experience in the medical applications of fasting. At the Centre National de Recherche Scientifique in Strasbourg, France, Professor Yvon Le Maho and his team use the latest technology to investigate instinctive fasting in the animal kingdom. Hundreds of publications have shown that the ability to fast is a natural physiological adaptation of humans and animals to life on the planet Earth. The availability of food changes from winter to summer, and therefore a succession of eating and fasting periods is absolutely normal. Doctors and clinics in Russia have amassed extensive knowledge and experience in therapeutic fasting, including a wealth of scientific publications during the Soviet era that have never been translated and remain virtually unknown outside Russia. In the United States, there is a tradition of fasting in the alternative scene. "

  • "Eat, Fast and Live Longer" – (BBC Horizon Documentary)

Michael Mosley has set himself a truly ambitious goal: he wants to live longer, stay younger and lose weight in the bargain. And he wants to make as few changes to his life as possible along the way. He discovers the powerful new science behind the ancient idea of fasting, and he thinks he's found a way of doing it that still allows him to enjoy his food. Michael tests out the science of fasting on himself - with life-changing results http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01lxyzc

  • some miscelaneous sources in media from the web:

• Routine Periodic Fasting Is Good for Your Health, and Your Heart, Study Suggests, ScienceDaily (Apr. 3, 2011) http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110403090259.htm

• Fasting Weakens Cancer in Mice http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/02/120208152254.htm

• Fasting could help fight cancer, By Roger Highfield, Science Editor http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/3337872/Fasting-could-help-fight-cancer.html

• Fasting and cancer, Starving the Beast, The Economist, Feb 9th 2012, 22:02 by T.C. http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2012/02/fasting-and-cancer

• Fasting can help protect against brain diseases, scientists say: Claim that giving up almost all food for one or two days a week can counteract impact of Alzheimer's and Parkinson's http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/feb/18/fasting-protect-brain-diseases-scientists

  • A few medical sources to sort through for potential inclusion of some of the more credible ones (some will be less credible or less current than others or some are more on caloric restriction and not actual fasting so perhaps to be sorted seperately into caloric restriction wikipedia page if any wikipeida community wish to submit):

1. Fasting cycles retard growth of tumors and sensitize a range of cancer cell types to chemotherapy. Lee C, Raffaghello L, Brandhorst S, Safdie FM, Bianchi G, Martin-Montalvo A, Pistoia V, Wei M, Hwang S, Merlino A, Emionite L, de Cabo R, Longo VD. Andrus Gerontology Center, Department of Biological Sciences, Norris Cancer Center, University of Southern California, 3715 McClintock Avenue, Los Angeles, CA 90089-0191, USA. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22323820 Abstract: Short-term starvation (or fasting) protects normal cells, mice, and potentially humans from the harmful side effects of a variety of chemotherapy drugs. Here, we show that treatment with starvation conditions sensitized yeast cells (Saccharomyces cerevisiae) expressing the oncogene-like RAS2(val19) to oxidative stress and 15 of 17 mammalian cancer cell lines to chemotherapeutic agents. Cycles of starvation were as effective as chemotherapeutic agents in delaying progression of different tumors and increased the effectiveness of these drugs against melanoma, glioma, and breast cancer cells. In mouse models of neuroblastoma, fasting cycles plus chemotherapy drugs--but not either treatment alone--resulted in long-term cancer-free survival. In 4T1 breast cancer cells, short-term starvation resulted in increased phosphorylation of the stress-sensitizing Akt and S6 kinases, increased oxidative stress, caspase-3 cleavage, DNA damage, and apoptosis. These studies suggest that multiple cycles of fasting promote differential stress sensitization in a wide range of tumors and could potentially replace or augment the efficacy of certain chemotherapy drugs in the treatment of various cancers.

2. Fasting and cancer treatment in humans: A case series report. Fernando M. Safdie,1,6 Tanya Dorff,2,3,6 David Quinn,2,3 Luigi Fontana,4 Min Wei,1 Changhan Lee,1 Pinchas Cohen,5 and Valter D. Longo1 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2815756/ Abstract: Short-term fasting (48 hours) was shown to be effective in protecting normal cells and mice but not cancer cells against high dose chemotherapy, termed Differential Stress Resistance (DSR), but the feasibility and effect of fasting in cancer patients undergoing chemotherapy is unknown. Here we describe 10 cases in which patients diagnosed with a variety of malignancies had voluntarily fasted prior to (48-140 hours) and/or following (5-56 hours) chemotherapy. None of these patients, who received an average of 4 cycles of various chemotherapy drugs in combination with fasting, reported significant side effects caused by the fasting itself other than hunger and lightheadedness. Chemotherapy associated toxicity was graded according to the Common Terminology Criteria for Adverse Events (CTCAE) of the National Cancer Institute (NCI). The six patients who underwent chemotherapy with or without fasting reported a reduction in fatigue, weakness, and gastrointestinal side effects while fasting. In those patients whose cancer progression could be assessed, fasting did not prevent the chemotherapy-induced reduction of tumor volume or tumor markers. Although the 10 cases presented here suggest that fasting in combination with chemotherapy is feasible, safe, and has the potential to ameliorate side effects caused by chemotherapies, they are not meant to establish practice guidelines for patients undergoing chemotherapy. Only controlled-randomized clinical trials will determine the effect of fasting on clinical outcomes including quality of life and therapeutic index.

3. ‘Short-term therapeutic fasting (7 days) in the treatment of chronic pain and fatigue syndromes--well-being and side effects with and without mineral supplements’ - Michalsen A, Weidenhammer W, Melchart D, Langhorst J, Saha J, Dobos G. Department of Internal Medicine V and Integrative Medicine, Kliniken Essen Mitte, Am Deimelsberg 34 a, 45276 Essen, Germany. 2002 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12232494

4. ‘The short-term (7 days) effects of fasting on the neuroendocrine system in patients with chronic pain syndromes.’ - Michalsen A, Schneider S, Rodenbeck A, Lüdtke R, Huether G, Dobos GJ. Department of Internal Medicine V and Integrative Medicine, Kliniken Essen Mitte, Am Deimelsberg 34 a, 45276 Essen, Germany. 2003 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12608732

5. 2010 / CellCycle / Fasting and differential chemotherapy protection in patients / Rafaghello, Prof. Valter Longo, et al./ DOI: 10.4161/cc.9.22.13954

6. 2010 / Trends in Pharmacological Sciences / Calorie restriction and cancer prevention: metabolic and molecular mechanisms / Prof Valter D. Longo and Luigi Fontana / DOI: 10.1016/j.tips.2009.11.004

7. 2007 / PNAS / Starvation‐dependent differential stress resistance protects normal but not cancer against high‐dose chemotherapy / Lizzia Raffaghello, Prof. Valter Longo, et al. / DOI: 10.1073"pnas.0708100105

8. 2011 / Oncogene Research / Fasting vs dietary restriction in cellular protection and cancer treatment: from model organisms to patients / Changhan Lee and Prof. Valter Longo / DOI: 10.1038/onc.2011.91

9. ‘Medically supervised water-only fasting in the treatment of hypertension.’ Goldhamer A, Lisle D, Parpia B, Anderson SV, Campbell TC. Center for Conservative Therapy, Penngrove, Calif, USA. 2002 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11416824

10. ‘Medically supervised water-only fasting in the treatment of borderline hypertension.; - Goldhamer AC, Lisle DJ, Sultana P, Anderson SV, Parpia B, Hughes B, Campbell TC. TrueNorth Health Center, Rohnert Park, CA 2002 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12470446

11. ‘Prolonged fasting (7-21 days) as a method of mood enhancement in chronic pain syndromes: a review of clinical evidence and mechanisms.’ - Michalsen A. Immanuel Hospital Berlin, Department of Internal and Complementary Medicine, Institute of Social Medicine, Epidemiology and Health Economics, Charité-University Medical Centre, Germany. 2010 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20425196 Abstract: Periods of deliberate fasting with restriction to intake of solid food are practiced worldwide, mostly based on a traditional, cultural, or religious background. Recent evidence from clinical trials shows that medically supervised modified fasting (200-500 kcal nutritional intake/day) with periods from 7 to 21 days is efficacious in the treatment of rheumatic diseases and chronic pain syndromes. Here, fasting is frequently accompanied by increased alertness and mood enhancement. The beneficial claims of fasting are supported by experimental research, which has found fasting to be associated with increased brain availability of serotonin, endogenous opioids, and endocannabinoids. Fasting-induced neuroendocrine activation and mild cellular stress response with increased production of neurotrophic factors may also contribute to the mood enhancement of fasting. Fasting treatments may be useful as an adjunctive therapeutic approach in chronic pain patients. The mood-enhancing and pain-relieving effect of therapeutic fasting should be further evaluated in randomized clinical trials.

12. ‘Caloric restriction in primates and relevance to humans.’ - Roth GS, Ingram DK, Lane MA. Laboratory of Neurosciences, Gerontology Research Center, National Institute on Aging, National Institutes of Health, Baltimore, Maryland 21224, USA. 2001 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11795522 Abstract: Dietary caloric restriction (CR) is the only intervention conclusively and reproducibly shown to slow aging and maintain health and vitality in mammals. Although this paradigm has been known for over 60 years, its precise biological mechanisms and applicability to humans remain unknown. We began addressing the latter question in 1987 with the first controlled study of CR in primates (rhesus and squirrel monkeys, which are evolutionarily much closer to humans than the rodents most frequently employed in CR studies). To date, our results strongly suggest that the same beneficial "antiaging" and/or "antidisease" effects observed in CR rodents also occur in primates. These include lower plasma insulin levels and greater sensitivity; lower body temperatures; reduced cholesterol, triglycerides, blood pressure, and arterial stiffness; elevated HDL; and slower age-related decline in circulating levels of DHEAS. Collectively, these biomarkers suggest that CR primates will be less likely to incur diabetes, cardiovascular problems, and other age-related diseases and may in fact be aging more slowly than fully fed counterparts. Despite these very encouraging results, it is unlikely that most humans would be willing to maintain a 30% reduced diet for the bulk of their adult life span, even if it meant more healthy years.

13. ‘The impact of religious fasting on human health.’ Trepanowski JF, Bloomer RJ. Cardiorespiratory/Metabolic Laboratory, The University of Memphis, Memphis, TN 38152, USA. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21092212 Abstract: Greek Orthodox Christians fast for a total of 180 - 200 days each year, and their main fasting periods are the Nativity Fast (40 days prior to Christmas), Lent (48 days prior to Easter), and the Assumption (15 days in August). Some of the more favorable effects of these fasts include the lowering of body mass, total cholesterol, LDL-C, and the LDL-C/HDL-C ratio. The Biblical-based Daniel Fast prohibits the consumption of animal products, refined carbohydrates, food additives, preservatives, sweeteners, flavorings, caffeine, and alcohol. It is most commonly partaken for 21 days, although fasts of 10 and 40 days have been observed. Our initial investigation of the Daniel Fast noted favorable effects on several health-related outcomes, including: blood pressure, blood lipids, insulin sensitivity, and biomarkers of oxidative stress. This review summarizes the health-specific effects of these fasts and provides suggestions for future research.

14. ‘The Effects of Caloric Restriction on Health and Longevity.’ Green JL, Sawaya FJ, Dollar AL. Emory University, 49 Jesse Hill Jr Drive SE, Atlanta, GA, 30303, USA 2011 Abstract: OPINION STATEMENT: There is increasing evidence that restricting caloric intake may have considerable health benefits in humans. Significant evidence in non-primate animals demonstrates that caloric restriction increases average and maximal life span. However, historically, caloric intake reduction in humans has been involuntary and accompanied by poverty, malnutrition, poor sanitation, and a lack of modern health care. As a result, caloric restriction in people typically has been accompanied by a reduction of both average and maximal life span. Conversely, improvements in standards of living usually are accompanied by an increased food supply and resultant improved health and longevity. The majority of the world is now in a new era where an abundance of caloric intake and its associated obesity are causing widespread chronic illness and premature death. What would happen if one were to institute caloric restriction with high-quality nutrition within an environment of modern sanitation and health care? This review argues that improved health and improved average life span would quite likely result. A lengthening of maximal human life span with this combination is perhaps possible but by no means certain.

15. A.J.Carlson and F. Hoelzel, “Nutrition, Senescence and Rejuvenescence”. Public Health Reports Vol.67 No.2. February 1952 Chicago.

16. H.L.Taylor, “American Journal of Physiology”. pp143-148 1945.

17. A.J.Carlson and F. Hoelzel, “Apparent Prolongation of Lifespan of Rats by Intermittent Fasting”. Journal of Nutrition, 31:363 1946.

18. Sergius Morgulis, “Fasting and Undernutrition”. University of Nebraska, E.P. Dutton, New York 1923.

19. A.J.Carlson, “The Control of Hunger in Health and Disease”. University of Chicago 1916.

20. Margaret M. Kunde, “The After Effects of Prolonged Fasting on the Basal Metabolic Rate”. Journal of Metabolic Research 1923, 3, 399 – 449.

21. R.H. Weindruch, J.A.Kristie, K.Cheney and R.L.Walford, “The Influence of Controlled Dietary Restriction on Immunologic Function and Ageing”. Federation Proceedings U.C.L.A. 389:2007 (1979)

22. ‘Caloric restriction in C57BL/6J mice mimics therapeutic fasting in humans.’ - Mahoney LB, Denny CA, Seyfried TN. Biology Department, Boston College, Chestnut Hill, MA, USA. 2006

23. ‘Clinical Aspects of the Ketogenic Diet’ - Adam L. Hartman, Eileen P. G. Vining, The John M. Freeman Pediatric Epilepsy Center, Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions, Baltimore, Maryland U.S.A. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1528-1167.2007.00914.x/full

24. ‘Fasting increases the in vivo gene delivery of AAV vectors.’ - Moulay G, Scherman D, Kichler A., Genethon, Evry, France. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21207763

25. ‘Greek Orthodox fasting rituals: a hidden characteristic of the Mediterranean diet of Crete.’ Sarri KO, Linardakis MK, Bervanaki FN, Tzanakis NE, Kafatos AG. Department of Social Medicine, University of Crete, School of Medicine, PO Box 2208, Iraklion 71003, Greece. 2004 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15333159

26. ‘Incorporation of fasting therapy in an integrative medicine ward: evaluation of outcome, safety, and effects on lifestyle adherence in a large prospective cohort study.’ - Michalsen A, Hoffmann B, Moebus S, Bäcker M, Langhorst J, Dobos GJ. Department of Integrative and Internal Medicine V, Kliniken Essen-Mitte, and Complementary and Integrative Medicine of the Alfred Krupp von Bohlen und Halbach Foundation, University Duisburg-Essen, Essen, Germany. 2005 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16131283

27. Short-term dietary restriction and fasting precondition against ischemia reperfusion injury in mice.’ Mitchell JR, Verweij M, Brand K, van de Ven M, Goemaere N, van den Engel S, Chu T, Forrer F, Müller C, de Jong M, van IJcken W, IJzermans JN, Hoeijmakers JH, de Bruin RW. Department of Genetics, Erasmus Medical Center, Cancer Genomics Center, Dr. Molewaterplein 50, 3015 GE, Rotterdam, The Netherlands. 2010 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19878145

28. ‘A trial of fasting cure for PCB-poisoned patients in Taiwan.’ 1984 Imamura M, Tung TC. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6422746

29. ‘Brain Metabolism during Fasting’ O. E. Owen, A. P. Morgan, H. G. Kemp, J. M. Sullivan, M. G. Herrera, and G. F. Cahill, Jr., Elliott P. Joslin Research Laboratory, Department of Medicine, Harvard Medical School, the Cardiovascular Unit, the Peter Bent Brigham Hospital, and the Diabetes Foundation, Inc., Boston, Massachusetts 1967 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292907/?page=6

30. ‘Brief case reports of medically supervised, water-only fasting associated with remission of autoimmune disease.’ Fuhrman J, Sarter B, Calabro DJ. Hunterdon Medical Center, Flemington, NJ, USA. 2002 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12126162

31. There is also a highly dubious case in India of a man called Prahlad Jani whom claims to have lived without not just food but also water for years. Observation studies of Jani have been conducted, one in 2003 and one in 2010, both involving Sudhir Shah, a neurologist at the Sterling Hospitals in Ahmedabad, India. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prahlad_Jani 

SpringSummerAutumn (talk) 14:30, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Youtube spam links?

How were my links to two You Tube videos "spam links"?

Biblequiz/Aaron 1~1~2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Biblequiz (talk • contribs) 23:47, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

These appear to be your own videos - per WP:SPAM, you should be careful about promoting your own material in this way. But a layperson's self-published personal YouTube videos are problematic sources regardless, and simply cannot be regarded as reliable sources for any claims they might make about the effectiveness or safety of fasting. --McGeddon (talk) 00:06, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
But no claims are made about the effectiveness or safety of fasting, and virtually every day is documented. Biblequiz (talk) 00:23, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
The woman's own YouTube video is not a reliable source for the fact that her appearance is the result of a 40-day fast consuming only water. The article might well benefit from a better illustration of the visible effects of fasting, but we should use images from a reliable source. --McGeddon (talk) 00:42, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
I'm not sure there could be a more reliable source than a daily documentation. Also, what doctor or professional 'reliable source' is going to sanction an official study on the effects of 3 consecutive forty day water fasts, necessary to achieve that level of proof. So this footage is virtually the only source of this information in the world, possibly ever. Biblequiz (talk) 00:57, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
I have no idea what medical research has been done in this area, but WP:SPS very clearly rules out the use of a self-published source here. If someone's made a personal YouTube diary of exceptional scientific interest, they should take it to a newspaper or a medical journal, not to Wikipedia. --McGeddon (talk) 01:15, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Aaron. I've watched ALL of his videos and there are no "claims" being made; his wife simply notes the symptoms and feelings that SHE is experiencing. The photo should be included here. Especially with the depiction of the emaciated figure of the stone statue that is included because it shows that the practice of extreme fasting is still taking place. That in itself, is relevant to anthropology, something a viable encyclopedia wouldn't exclude. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.51.126.185 (talk • contribs) 21:14, January 14, 2012

Wikipedia policy is clear on this, regarldess of if claims are being made are not, self-published sources cannot be used in Wikipedia. A consensus of users above also state it so please refrain from adding the material to the page again. Regards, -- Jeff3000 (talk) 03:32, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but "Self-published or questionable sources may be used as sources of information about themselves"74.192.11.70 (talk) 18:31, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, and the next few sentences of WP:SELFPUB go on to say that such material may be used in this manner only if "the material is neither unduly self-serving nor an exceptional claim" (it appears to be both, as it was originally added by the husband of the woman in the video, and by his own admission it is a very rare claim). I have removed the images and links again. --McGeddon (talk) 20:27, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
I've just reverted User:173.11.184.65 adding this in again. To add to my last comment - this article has no other reason to write about Olivia Cohen, so we do not need to reach for self-published sources. If newspapers and journals had written about her, we could possibly use these videos to pick out some additional details, but as it stands it's simple original research to include their claims here. It would be original research to add "Olivia Cohen survived three 40-day fasts consuming only water and looked a lot thinner" as a sentence in the article, with only her YouTube diary as a reference; it's the same when added in the form of a captioned image. --McGeddon (talk) 13:49, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

O.K., I read this whole thing and you are starting to sound obsessed with this woman. I work for a news station, and you're telling me that if I decide to write a package (TV segment) about this woman or interview her it automatically becomes Wikipedia eligible? I put this under "Complications", which are visible with the naked eye, regardless of any claims. And if you think that there is some way she attained that physical appearance without fasting, or that it is faked somehow, you are out of your mind. This is the internet age. Video is how our generation documents or proves things. Even my doctor friends view internet videos at their conferences. I guarantee this will never happen again, and to leave it off of Wikipedia is a loss to Wikipedia. What does it benefit the world not to have accesss to this on Wikipedia, the premier destination of knowledge because of other internet users? I put this under Fasting: Health Efects: Complications; which is where it belongs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fasting1! (talk • contribs) 12:28, 21 July 2013 (UTC) Fasting1! (talk) 12:33, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

I can't speak for McGeddon, but I'm not concerned that it was faked. I am concerned, however, that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information and that mentioning this specific case puts undue weight on it in the article. It would be much better if we had some third party citation, so we know that the media at large or the medical community took notice of this. - MrOllie (talk) 13:04, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
I'm not concerned that it's fake, I'm simply making sure that Wikipedia does not give medical advice to its readers without very, very strong sources: "it is vital that the biomedical information in all types of articles be based on reliable, third-party, published sources and accurately reflect current medical knowledge". A woman saying "I fasted for 40 days, and look at me!" on YouTube is not a reliable, third-party, published source. --McGeddon (talk) 09:35, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

"ramadan" health benefits do not seem probable

they avoid eating in the daytime, but they eat all they wish after the sun sets, until dawn. frankly, this does not even appear to be fasting, but merely a "reversed time" eating system. the effects on the body should be similar to daytime eating, or worse due to the sudden consumption of large meals.

http://news.yahoo.com/skipping-breakfast-may-increase-heart-attack-risk-210037837.html

1. This is not a forum 2. The study above is epidemiological, correlational (i.e. unusable garbage). 3. There have been quite a few Ramadan studies, the bulk of them pointing at improved blood lipid profiles and other measurements, although the quality of most of these studies is questionable, of course. There was a meta-study of Ramadan studies - if anyone can recall the title or the author's name, perhaps we could incorporate it into the article instead of dealing with numerous Ramadan studies separately. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.124.196.115 (talk) 03:23, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

The study on habitually skipping breakfast (scientific journal cite in a later section) is not directly applicable to fasting in general, and is of very doubtful applicability to the Ramadan fast, since in Ramadan one commonly arises well before dawn so as to pray, then to eat a substantial breakfast, all before sunrise, and from there to either continue with the day or go back to bed for some additional sleep. Nonetheless, a number of studies have found that the Ramadan daylight fast does indeed improve cholesterol profiles.Ocdnctx (talk) 17:24, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
Added clarification of nature of Ramadan fast into article, lest some soul think it means a 40-day and 40-night fast would be safe, based on a misunderstanding of Ramadan. Ocdnctx (talk) 16:53, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Complications

The article begins with some general definitions of fasts taken from a physiological perspective. Each definition includes a time frame that helps distinguish one from another (e.g. overnight, 3-5 hours, 8-12 hours, 8-72 hours.) The next part of the article under the subtitle 'complications' is referencing a kind of prolonged fasting that isn't covered in the introduction. This kind of fasting is being called 'fast-induced starvation', which, according to the reference cited to substantiate that cardiac arrhythmias can occur during 'fast-induced starvation', takes place over an interval 20 times longer than the longest lapse mentioned in the introduction. The discrepancy between the initial definitions and the subsequent section are significant enough to cause confusion in the reader, as they are addressing two different things entirely. I am suggesting that either the term 'fast-induced starvation' be placed in the introduction with an explanation of what it is, with an appropriate time frame associated with it (the only cited study suggests 2-8 months) and be given its own list of 'complications' or that the leading paragraph of the section 'complications' be removed from the article entirely.

This section is confusing fasting with malnutrition. The cited reference is a study of a diet. The following are the opening sentences of the wikipedia article on malnutrition,

'Malnutrition is the condition that results from eating a diet in which certain nutrients are lacking, in excess (too high in intake), or in the wrong proportions.[1][2] The verb form is "malnourish"; "malnourishment" is sometimes used instead of "malnutrition". A number of different nutrition disorders may arise, depending on which nutrients are under- or over-abundant in the diet....In wealthier nations it is more likely to be caused by unhealthy diets with excess energy, fats, and refined carbohydrates. A growing trend of obesity is now a major public health concern in lower socio-economic levels and in developing countries as well.[5]'

The opening paragraph in 'complications' could serve better in the general article of 'malnutrition'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iamshoe (talk • contribs) 06:48, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Protein fasting

If 'water fast' means you can only have water, 'juice fast' you can only have juice, is there a term for being allowed to have water/protein? A fear of some people is muscle catabolism (no article for this either? guess catabolism then...) under calorie restriction, like if the body needs amino acids for immune system or neurotransmitters it will break down muscle to get it once the circulating pool in the bloodstream is depleted.

I think I remember reading in 'Spartan Health' or something that while they do intermittant fasting (large meal at night, avoid breakfast/lunch) that mostly-protein stuff like having a whey shake is excepted, to help keep the pool topped off (although a slow-metabolizing thing like casein from the previous night might cover that)

So this doesn't refer to no-calorie fasting but basically the metabolism focuses on digesting proteins and carbs/fats are eliminated or minimized. Basically eliminating stuff more easily converted to energy. Protein can be turned into glucose but it goes slower and takes a lot of energy and I think only happens when you need to replenish glucose for anaerobic storage since otherwise stored fat could cover energy demands, assuming the person has significant fat stores. Guessing the significance of a protein fast would be less for someone already low-fat since they would be more prone to breaking down consumed protein for energy than someone with lots of stored energy in their fat.

Not sure if we have an article on this though. Is it discussed somewhere? 184.145.18.50 (talk) 15:21, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Article is too long. Carve out new separate article on fasting in various religions

The comparative religion stuff is fascinating, but of limited use to one interested in the other parts of the article (e.g., recent reliable research on what fasting practices are safe and beneficial).

The medical part of the article seems seriously underdeveloped.

New general "Fasting" article should include a short summary section to the effect that fasting has long been a part of many religious traditions, with a pointer to the separate comparative religion, article with a title such as, e.g.,

Fasting for religious purposes — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ocdnctx (talk • contribs) 16:58, 1 March 2014

I would be all for a religious fasting split-off. 184.145.18.50 (talk) 15:29, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

If it is split off that would be a good opportunity for a serious rewriting. This section currently reeds like a paper for a 3rd year religious studies course. The section from the OT does not really fit in, and what is "Rose oil olive oil"?--Richardson mcphillips (talk) 16:33, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

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Proposing split

As another user mentioned above there is a LOT of focus on the religious idea of fasting, when I think the focus should be more on the general idea of it, health effects, etc. A religious fasting or fasting in religion or whatever article would be a good place for this bulky overview and pare this article down to a more general and secular presentation. 184.145.18.50 (talk) 15:32, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

I agree with this split as the 'Religous views' section seems very cluttered and would work well as a seperate article.--115.64.67.168 (talk) 05:11, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

respirationism

please remove this word, it is only found on ~70 places on the entire web and nowhere is it linked with fasting--193.163.223.128 (talk) 21:21, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

You would have much more information if you would read about involuntary fasts of people where there was no food such as adrift at sea or lost in the Arctic. I came across this informationreading the Bounty Trilogy and Peter Freuchen's book--- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.167.120.201 (talk) 22:31, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Involuntary Fasting

You would have much better information on fasting if you read accounts of people caught in situations where there was no food. I came across this while reading The Bounty Trilogy (vol. 2, Men Against the Sea) and Peter Freuchen's book, Arctic Adventure: My Life in the Frozen North (1935), etc.) Obviously many people survived such situations throughout history although there is no medical account of their experience. There is also fasting by Naturopathic doctors practiced for healing. (Note: I don't comment often enough on Wikipedia to make it worthwhile to set up an account. I'm posting from the Humanities computer lab of San Juan College in Farmington, NM USA.205.167.120.201 (talk) 22:52, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

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Does fasting make people more resistant to food shortages?

Does it make them more resistant to or more capable for dealing with food shortages both at the individual and the societal level?

The only relevant pages I found until now were: http://l-nutra.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/elsevier-february-2013.pdf and https://books.google.de/books?id=JDg1JE6eascC&pg=PA201

--Fixuture (talk) 10:51, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

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Fasting and osteoporosis

I am surprised this article says that fasting can help to prevent osteoporosis - it may make people very thin, which can increase the risk of osteoporosis. Vorbee (talk) 15:18, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

A chart review on fasting adverse effects

Here is a very recent (2018) article [1] using the method of chart reviewing for a period of 2006 to 2011 from a residential medical facility, for a total of 2539 charts. They found a very very low rate of serious adverse effects for water fasting (so not intermittent). This is not really a review but the method used is quite strong, might be interesting to add to the article? --Signimu (talk) 14:22, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Fasting Cuisine in Hinduism

User talk:Zefr, The source I cited provides information on foods allowed to Hindus during fasting.If citing the whole book is not acceptable, then page six of the book gives information on Hindu way of fasting.Is adding that acceptable to you? At the moment there are no sources for information preceding what you deleted.I look forward to your comments.Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 15:21, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

WP:NOTADVICE says that Wikipedia is not a "how to" source, and WP:NOTRECIPE indicates that the encyclopedia is not intended to provide recipes for foods. If you can find a WP:SECONDARY source (book, news article) covering these foods, then that would be acceptable. --Zefr (talk) 15:25, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
User talk:Zefr, you say and I quote "WP:NOTADVICE says that Wikipedia is not a "how to" source, and WP:NOTRECIPE indicates that the encyclopedia is not intended to provide recipes for foods."Totally agree with that.In the article, I am not providing any recipes. All I am doing is providing a source where these could be found.Do you think you are interpreting the guidelines correctly?Thanks.Jonathansammy (talk) 16:45, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
A secondary source would take your view out of the issue, which is the point of WP:RS. --Zefr (talk) 20:58, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
User talk:Zefr,A book is a secondary source.The source you removed was written by one of India's best cookery writer.I don't think you can find a better source than her.Let me know what is your definition of WP:RS.ThanksJonathansammy (talk) 22:43, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
The specific book source provided, and all its pages before and after page 8, provide "how to do" recipes. It's not a good secondary source. Further, the text the source supposedly supports reads like advice: "a whole fasting cuisine with dozens of recipes is available for those practicing the ritual." From WP:NOTADVICE: "an article should not read like a "how-to" style owner's manual, cookbook,". --Zefr (talk) 01:54, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Uses in cancer treatment or prevention

This edit relies on animal studies and conjecture about unconfirmed effects and mechanisms of fasting on cancer. PMID 25502434 is a review of animal studies and is not representative of human cancer; see WP:MEDANIMAL. PMID 29587670 is a short op-ed of animal research on fasting and cancer, providing no relevant or comprehensive information on human cancer; it fails WP:MEDRS. PMID 24280167 and PMID 28539118 are theoretical discussions of cancer mechanisms, and so are conjecture from primary research far from meeting MEDRS. The encyclopedia requires the best-established facts from scientific consensus among experts for such statements, as discussed in WP:MEDSCI. These sources don't meet this standard. Please discuss and don't WP:WAR. --Zefr (talk) 17:24, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

PMID 29587670 is a narrative review, not an opinion piece, even if it communicates a viewpoint. PMID 29059434 is an example of one of the thousands of actual editorials you can find on PubMed. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:42, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
PMID 28368246 offers a nice overview of the scene. Fasting to "starve" cancer is quackery. Alexbrn (talk) 17:20, 15 March 2019 (UTC)


Quackery you say and then link to this:


"Combining fasting with current therapies has also shown some promising preliminary results in animal models. Intermittent fasting or a reduced calorie intake combined with radiotherapy diminished the progression of breast tumours in mouse models and also protected normal tissue during chemotherapy treatment."


"Results from a case series of ten patients undergoing chemotherapy for a variety of different tumours suggest intermittent fasting accompanied by a chemotherapy regime was well tolerated, and patients who fasted had a reduction in gastro-intestinal side effects and fatigue.9 The fasting regime had no detrimental impact on the chemotherapy function, however, more rigorous analyses are required before this technique can be advocated."

176.20.208.76 (talk) 15:59, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

It's starting to get encyclopedic: Eventually you'll have to let it through: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5842847 --7henix (talk) 05:57, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

That source is not about fasting. Alexbrn (talk) 06:14, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
It is actually, because when fasting, the body is in ketosis. I know, I know. So hard concepts! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4783224 7henix (talk) 06:17, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
Yes, but you can be in ketosis without fasting, which is the situation in the first source you gave us. So... not fasting. Meters (talk) 06:23, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
Let's move this over to the cancer article! You guys will love it there. --7henix (talk) 06:30, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
If you want to do that, start a new section. Do not copy/paste your and others' comments wholesale. In any case, this source is discussed at some length at Ketogenic diet already. Alexbrn (talk) 06:52, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
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