Talk:Fiamma Nirenstein

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Untitled[edit]

OK I will do my best to write something worthwhile about this person. This is my first attempt, so please be patient. Nirenstein is rather well known in Italy. Ganev 20:33, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No offense taken Working on it! Ganev 09:40, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can you give me some pointers on how to better categorize this article? I thought I had done it correctly.Ganev 11:41, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I find it odd that this entry doesn't mention the fact that Nirenstein is running for the Italian parliament in the next elections (April 2008) in Silvio Berlusconi's right-wing party, a highly controversial decision as among the members of the People of Freedom there are former fascists who never renounced their political ideas (such as Benito Mussolini's granddaughter, Alessandra).--213.140.21.227 (talk) 14:41, 20 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and the controversial political cartoon that caused an uproar at the ADL! How about writing it up? 85.18.14.18 (talk) 11:55, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately I do not have a copy of the newspapers that published those cartoons. Actually there were two cartoons, one by Vauro and one by Disegni--Nirenstein accused both cartoonists of anti-semitism, which is a bit paradoxical as also Disegni comes from a Jewish family. I think the episode should be mentioned, but it should be done with precise reference to the Italian newspapers who published the two cartoons, and unfortunately I can't do that.--213.140.21.227 (talk) 17:03, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gilo..?[edit]

The list of qualifiers we could add to Gilo could go on and on, but I personally feel it dilutes the sentence. If another editor would like to mention the fact that Gilo is w/in the municipal boundaries of Jerusalem, fine, but for informative purposes I think it's necessary to qualify that by pointing out that it's beyond the Green Line. Ideally, I think the sentence should not include any qualifiers and just appositely describe Gilo as "an Israeli settlement," which is neutral language and has the scholarly, international-law consensus behind it that "neighborhood in Jerusalem," a deliberately normalizing term, does not. The Gilo article and the Israeli settlement article are informative in this regard, as I've pointed out in a previous edit summary. Sure, Gilo is within the boundaries of Jerusalem, but scholarly, critical, and legal attention to the matter has argued that much of Jerusalem's municipal policy, including its borders, constitute a land grab.

One could argue that it would be informative and useful for readers to know that Nirenstein - who, as the quotes section makes clear, is a Zionist of the more extreme variety - chooses to live in a settlement on territory that the international community and international law hold to be occupied, and that attempting to smooth over this fact is disingenuous and misleading. Nirenstein and others like her clearly know the difference between "neighborhoods" and neighborhoods: notice that she doesn't choose to live somewhere in West Jerusalem, but in a settlement. One could argue that, but in the end I'm pretty sure that it detracts from Wikipedia's mission, not to mention relevance and effectiveness, if we have to haggle over the root causes and terms of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in every article that touches on the subject. I'm for a short, straightforward descriptor - "Israeli settlement" - that has the consensus of scholarly opinion and international law behind it.
Sindinero (talk) 11:38, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

WP:PROMO[edit]

This article is an embarrassment to the project. It is clearly self-promotional, has large blobs of boring details that are shorn of sourcing, a kind of curriculum vita pitching its author for more recognition. I'll be patient, but, if with a reasonable time, none of those numerous requests for actual sourcing are satisfied, the accompanying material will be excised. The rule must be that you can only add details to a BLP when you paraphrase reliable sources, preferably those independent of the subject of the article.Nishidani (talk) 18:52, 4 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of quotes[edit]

WP:NOT has a section of quotes (making up pages of them). This cannot apply to biographies. Any wiki bio will have numerous quotes from say Netanyahu, Trump Nietzsche you name them. The only objection can be they are not worked into the text. If so, then one opens up a section -Views on Hamas- for her remarks re that organization, etc. Just excising what is very reliably reported to be her real opinions is inappropriate, particularly since this reads mostly as a booster article. Whoever has edited it into its present shape is close to the subject (WP:COI) Legal proceedings apparently have started on the Italian version of her wikibio, leading to its elimination, probably for years, if we can trust Italian courts. Italian readers are extremely familiar with Nirenstein's work, and best able to document the extraordinary number of hyperbolic stereotypes that mark her profligate journalistic outpourings.Nishidani (talk) 21:15, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]