Talk:Gaetano Scirea

"Greatest defender"

While it may well be true that Scirea was "one of the greatest defenders of all-time", we cannot just put point of view statements in. Such a claim needs to be backed up by a good source or perhaps by quotes and have the line changed to something like: "Scirea is considered by some to be one of the greatest defenders of all-time".

For now the {{Fact}} tag should stay in the article, until someone can clear sort this problem out. aLii 20:22, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Scirea being one of the greatest ever defenders.

Any source is going to be debatable when discussing "greatness" of football players. What is the Recognised and Accredited Authority to be quoted for awarding the "great" word to a player? There is no such a thing.

On the other hand there are a lot of unquestionable facts which make this statement entirely reasonable, and they are correctly contained in the text:

- One the very few players ever to win ALL national and international club tournaments (I don't think luck only can take you that far)

- World champion with Italy in the 1982 World Cup

- Never sent off or suspended during his entire (long) career. Must be a record for a defender.

- Played for the Italian national team for well over a decade, being irreplaceable as the leading defender. Franco Baresi (definitely another all-time great) had his early career hindered by Scirea: he did not play a single minute in the 1982 and 1986 FIFA world cup because Scirea was the unquestioned choice. Baresi could take over his role permanently in the Italian national team only when Scirea retired.

I think the facts above prove more than any reference (there are many) that he was a great defender.

While I appreciate the new info put into the article one should still try to find a verifiable and reliable source, otherwise you can be accused of introducing original research. Calling him a great defender is quite fair, but it's still better to back it up with some actual sources to make the article better. People even called for the same on Pele's article!

On your above points;

1. How many players have won all competitions? Got any proof?
2. Plenty of average-to-poor players have the fortune of playing in good teams and winning major tournaments — heck Djimi Traore won the CL the other year!
3. I know of a few other players that were never even cautioned, never mind suspended. Example: Billy Wright

Actually, Scirea, too, never got a yellow or red card. I am going to edit that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gbli (talk • contribs) 04:46, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

1. While the Baresi infomation is interesting, it also sounds like speculation. If Baresi was so great at the time why didn't he play as the second centre-half? I don't doubt that it is true, but putting in some relevent quotes would help.

This is not good criticism. Back then there was only one libero per team, and both players were liberos. The libero had no man marking responsibilities, while the other center back, the stopper, was usually marking the center forward. Both players were fairly small, intelligent, relying on anticipation and great vision and passing. Neither had the needed muscle and height to play stopper. The two center-back formation, playing zone defense, became dominant only around 1998. On the other hand, then-Italian coach Bearzot had his favorites. In 1982 he took 22-yrs old Baresi to the WC, but in 1986, he left Baresi AT HOME, and took a guy named Tricella to Mexico in his place. He lost his job, of course. By 1987, Baresi was universally recognized as a world class talent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gbli (talk • contribs) 05:06, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Anyway, I'm not personally going to put the tag back as like i've said the additional few explanatory lines satisfy me. I'm just making these points to try and help the article, not to be annoying :) aLii 17:23, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I have added three references to back the "great" statement

Regarding the points above:

1- I don't know but I'm sure that they are not many (personally I cannot think of another one)

2- True only as far as clubs go, but to win the World Cup being a less-than-average player you need far more luck, if only for the fact that you get a chance only every four years!

3- I also know a few players who have never been sent off or suspended. But how many of them were defenders who played for more than ten years at international level? And how many of those left have won Scirea's trophies? Taken alone this is a relatively small achievement, but combined with the others it becomes important

4- I would never write those lines in a wiki article, but believe me it is not speculation: ask anybody who was old enough at the time to remember and he will tell you that Baresi and his fans were totally frustrated by the lack of chances to play in the Nazionale. Baresi was already a great defender, but his role totally overlapped with Scirea and the coach Bearzot (together with the vast majority of Italians) always preferred the latter

• • How many players have won all competitions? Got any proof?
  • ONLY Scirea, Antonio Cabrini and Sergio Brio, ALL with Juventus FC, the only club with ALL TOURNAMENTS in palmares in the world! --Dantemateo 20:04, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

--Dantemateo 20:04, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Of course it's much more impressive to win three European Cups than to win each of the poorer European trophies and one European Cup via a dodgy penalty when the other team wasn't trying. The 1984 Euro Super Cup was also forfeited as much as it was won...

As far as poor players winning the World Cup go, one only has to look at this year's trophy. Materazzi?! An Everton reject? He's better than Traore perhaps, but not by a lot. aLii 01:00, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

It was 1985, not 1984. I read a couple of auto-biographies from players who took part in that match. Both say that the game was played intensively, as only later the scale of the tragedy became real.

I wouldn't even try to compare Materazzi with Scirea... Materazzi is a rough defender with average/good skills, spoiled by a complete lack of sportmanship. Scirea is an all-time champion with loads of class and fair play on offer

Dodby penalty? and the 39 dead people, the koplligan, red animal KILLER?????

UEFA Cup in 1977 was BETTER than UEFA Cup 2001 of Littlepool. Remember Juve 2-0 Littlepool, January 1985!

Gaetano Scirea, planetworldcup.com

Compare Scirea with Materazzi? In your poor world the football was born yesterday (or in Istanbul)... --Dantemateo 00:52, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't see your argument. I don't write here as a Liverpool fan, but rather an editor of Wikipedia. My arguements have inspired people to make this article better — here check out this before and after diff. My points about Materazzi et al were merely to point out that you can't simply call a player "great" because he's been in a team that won the world cup. Sure I conceed that Scirea was a great player, but when writing an article one has to mention why and hopefully give some sources to back up the claim. aLii 14:37, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I just removed the list of 5 players to win all trophies: this is an article about Gaetano Scirea and making long lists of other players spoils the flow of reading. Please try and keep the article linear and focused on the subject. John

"Scirea never earned a yellow or red card in his career."

Never?! 14 June 1982, Italy vs. Poland http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/archive/edition=59/results/matches/match=995/report.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.8.150.20 (talk) 12:16, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Please add the 'Juventus Highest Capped' box to the end of this article

According to the 'Sporting positions' box at the bottom of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandro_Del_Piero Scirea preceded ADP as the most capped player for Juventus. If this is correct, the linkage should also be added to the box at the bottom of this page.