Talk:Gaius Baltar/Archive 1

Archive 1

The Trial

Why didn't the general pardon Roslin granted to everyone apply to Baltar? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jewpiterjones (talk• contribs) 03:00, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Answer: This question was the keystone reason why Baltar was found not guilty of the treason charges. Lee Adama, who wound up working on the defense of Baltar gave an emotional testimony in which the keystone of his speech was the fact that President Roslin granted blanket pardons to all, yet Gaius Baltar did not fall under this pardon when others, including himself, had comitted greater crimes and were pardonned without getting a second glance. 207.236.24.137 (talk) 20:45, 18 November 2009 (UTC)Cdn777 NOV 18th 2009.

That said, when President Roslin issued the pardon, she specifically granted a pardon to "everyone in the fleet." At that time, Baltar was on a Cylon baseship (by his own choice, and not explicitly as a prisoner), so *technically* he wasn't actually granted the same pardon as everyone else because he was not a part of the Colonial Fleet. However, this technicality is never raised on the show. Ouizardus (talk) 20:44, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Gaius Baltar in Caprica Six's head?

can someone put up a section on this? although it seems at this point we don't know much about him.

Gaius Baltar -> Baltar

This should be moved to "Baltar." Gaius Baltar is the name of only the remake character, while this article is about both of them.Kuralyov 02:14, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Agree and moved, without prejudice against any real things named just "Baltar" that may need to go here in the future. -- Cyrius|✎ 04:37, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I'm also leaving links for the particular characters pointing at the redirects intentionally. That way if the article gets split into one for each character, a bunch of other articles won't need to be changed. -- Cyrius|✎ 04:39, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I split it. I feel there's enough merit for it.--Kross 05:58, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Keep them seprate. They're such different characters it would be impossible to merge the two.--Phoenix Hacker 08:47, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Moved to "Dr. Gaius Baltar".

Human or Cylon?

The race of Gaius is not determined. In the latter episodes of season 2 Gauis is shown to be in his house as the nuclear bomb rips through it. One logical conclusion is that he is not actually human any more and has been cloned to a cylon.

Pure speculation. Sure, he's acting quite at odds with the best interests of humanity, and the writers are leaving it very open to speculation, but there's been nothing concrete put forth. As such, I'm going to remove the "Gauis[sic] a cylon?" paragraph. Remember, Wikipedia's policy is "no original research." -- Wwagner 21:12, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

If you can find evidence that a large contingent of fans believe it to be true, it's probably worth putting up under "fan reaction" or some such, but if it's just something you came up with, it doesn't belong there. Stilgar135 22:15, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Whether or not it is true is not the issue. The question of whether or not it is true is a central part of the character. It is not merely fan speculation, it is the character's speculation, and that is what makes it important. But this article is so poorly written that's not much of an issue. I agree a section summarizing evidence for and against his being a Cylon would be appropriate, should the rest of the article be re-written and broken into sections ;) --Vstarre 16:45, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I think it's clear that Baltar is a Cylon, as the new Number Six on Caprica has visions of him in the same manner he has of her, and his ability to reconfigure his surroundings in his mind, just like Number Six, is further proof of that. This article needs serious polishing regardless though.Xiner 19:00, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm changing Baltar's race based on the recent episodes. Xiner 03:13, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I've removed it. At this point there are questions about it, even within the context of the show, so it should not be assumed to be either. CovenantD 03:35, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Baltar's race is unknown to Baltar. That's the point. There is no real evidence that he's a Cylon.--- [vstarre] 01:00, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

In the slideshow on scifi.com about "taking a break" you can see Baltar waking up in a resurrection tub, so unless we have to expect any unforessen twists he should be cylon... --217.224.134.130 13:56, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

There are definitely trailers of Baltar in a resurrection tub on SciFi tonight.Pontificator 05:40, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Concur. Just watched the trailer for next week's episode. He's a cylon. Unless there is some strange plot twist to psych us out. :)70.134.84.54 08:13, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

The race of Baltar should remain undetermined at this point.Pontificator 04:04, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm assuming, now that the episode has aired, and the "download" scene was shown to be a dream sequence, that previews won't be relied upon for solid information anymore... --Fru1tbat 04:31, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Another view worth adding is that Baltar is the Jesus of the Battlestar world. He is a follower of one true God in a world of polytheists,he has been told he is the "chosen one" by the prophetic "head six", and he now has a cult following as a healer. If Gaius Baltar is the "God" of this universe that, not a cylon heritage, would explain his surviving the blast his visions and his ability to see into the future.

What's with the last dialouge of the last Episode, when 6's offspring/successor says to Baltar's offspring successor sth. about the "plan of God", and Baltar replies "You know I don't like that name"? So, this seems to be a hint that Baltar is actually god? More precisely, the One God of the Cylons, and that could perhaps mean, the one original biological Cylon, who created the original "final five"? -- 217.186.222.19 (talk) 18:52, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Your quote is inaccurate. Head Baltar replies (in his Aerelon accent), "You know he doesn't like that name." Unless he's talking about himself in the third-person, he isn't God. Now, one thing that I still don't get, is after saying the aforementioned line, Baltar chuckles and says, "Silly me. Silly, silly me..." and there's no hard explanation of what he's talking about (that I was able to pull out of the context after re-watching the last scene multiple times. Does he mean, "Silly me, I am God..." or something else? I agree that his ability to seemingly participate in projections, like Cylons can, initially seems like evidence supporting his being a Cylon, but keep in mind President Roslin also projects herself in to the Opera House vision. It would seem this is actually just a shared vision, rather than a specific Cylon projection. There's also no evidence for or against Baltar's house-fantasy being a Cylon projection or simply just a fantasy. It seems more plausible to me that he's a human specifically placed via divine intervention to play his role in the prophesy. Dsnider (talk) 06:55, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

In many episodes in Season 3 & 4, I definitely see correlations between Gaius Baltar and Jesus:

• In Season 4, when he goes on a mad rant against the gods and trashes one of their altars during a service, largely in retaliation for the attack upon his own followers by the Sons of Aries. This is somewhat similar to the Cleansing of the Temple.
• He is seen by many as talking or looking at something that isn't there, which in later episodes he claims to be "angels" (being Virtual Six and in a few episodes Virtual Gaius).
• When he goes unshaven, he bears quite a resemblance to modern depictions of Jesus.

Are there any others? Was this intentional by the writers of the series, and if so, are they making a comment on Gaius Baltar and/or Jesus? Should this correlation by noted in the article? Ouizardus (talk) 21:05, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

There is at least one more: In one of the episodes in Season 3, after he returns to Galactica, Baltar is interrogated by Roslin and Adama. He is given some kind of thruth serum. He pictures himself floating in water with a posture that reminded me of Jesus' posture on the cross. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8109:8440:760:2103:8783:9E2F:8800 (talk) 07:03, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Gaius Baltar (Number Six)/Gaius Baltar (Caprica Six)

see Number Six (Gaius Baltar) and Talk:Number Six (Battlestar Galactica)

Gaius Baltar: What really happened: In the beguinning,. he was covered by caprica 6, shielded from the blast,. this killed her as her conciousness was transmitted to the ressurection ship, her conciousness was transmitted to gaius also like a ghost image, possibly at the same time that interaction caused visa versa effect,. thus bothe could see both images of each other..

remember all cylons can create an alt image of the world they are in,. images of people would be no exception...

many times in the series gaius also lived in those worlds,. abstract versions of reality,. the opra house was in my view hera transmitting the vision of the ship as the opra house, ... stated that she could create visions at a young age by her mother.

there was only one cylon ever missing... daniel

a clever intelligent artistic man... well

gaius ,, look at his clothes, his house , his intelligence, his ability to solve problems,. programming is an art iteself,. especcially to a machine, take the creative part of artist, rather than think of a painter,. an artist is a creative person dedicated to the field they are in.

so either balta was human and the memory transferred,. confused as a human or as i believe... he is daniel, the only one left,. as he had nowhere to ressurect to..no body and she was transferring, i think this caused them to meld mentally... in an interactive way... possibly even,. the essence of thier conciousness was able to survive outside of eithers mind, wich is i think what happened... guias left the planet on a shuttle, he did not ressurect... but clearly there are too many clues to him being a cylon,. and the clue was,. Daniel — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kecevi (talk • contribs) 01:25, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Affiliation changed from Twelve Colonies

I have changed the "affiliation" section of the infobox from "Twelve Colonies" to "Gaius Baltar", as Dr Baltar is clearly not a true servant of either the Colonies, or anyone else. I would appreciate comments and suggestions as to what might be a more accurate way to demonstrate the self-serving nature of the character. - Seanlavelle 00:22, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

List of Treacheries an Oversimplification

I think that the issues listed under treacheries may not be so black and white. I do not believe that his manifesto is treacherous in nature. Perhaps they is a better way of grouping some of his notation foibles together? Anyways, the article is shaping up well

Best Regards,

70.55.238.80 19:55, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Baltar is a friend to the human race, not treacherous! This article is biased due to the section on "Treacheries", and should be removed. Kind regards, 137.186.185.142 22:52, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I concur: because of the moral ambiguity of some of the behavior, such as the propaganda, calling the section "Treacheries" poisons the well. This section should be called "Questionable Motives," or something that's not prejudgmental. As an example, we could eliminate the so-called propaganda and it would still be the case that the working conditions for the lower classes are wretched, deserving some type of activism. Would it be inherently 'treacherous' for a labor union to form over civil liberties violations? I think not. Even if his motives for writing the pamphlet were self-interested, the content may nevertheless be truthful. Pfhyde 12:16, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely agree that treachery is an overreach here. Some are, some arent.

The Baltar character is no hero, but its not so morally black and white, much like BSG itself. The section is a gross simplification. The Baltar character sees to be a means to examine the complex make up of humans, marking a simple black/white good/evil right/wrong moralising which makes up alot of American TV shows. As such, this section is pointless and should be dropped or replaced with a more nuanced look at the Baltar character and his actions.62.56.50.202 17:18, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Whatever you think of the other supposed treacheries, simply writing a manifesto can NEVER EVER be treachery. To put down your ideas on paper and distribute it to others is a fundamental human right, and it should never be denied to anyone.

I took the freedom to edit the article and change that to "questionable actions", adding in some cases the points Baltar could have argued to defend himself, and insisting more on his ambiguous/manipulated nature.

Why Baltar's affiliation should not be "Gaius Baltar":

1 - Baltar tried to get the Cylons to leave New Caprica. If he had his way, he might have been killed by his own people.

2 - Baltar was ready to die for the sake of a child in He That Believeth in Me.

3 - If people on the show doing questionable things means they are only loyal to themselves, then you can apply that to a lot of the characters on the show (see 'conduct as president' section of Laura Roslin article).

4 - Two users want affiliation "see article." Only non-users have wanted affiliation to be "Gaius Baltar."

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Byelf2007 (talk • contribs) 02:45, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

BSG Characters with imaginary friends

• Gaius Baltar (an apparition that looks like Caprica Six and an apparition that looks like Gaius Baltar (seen once))
• Caprica Six (an apparition that looks like Gaius Baltar)
• Kara Thrace (an apparition that looks like Leoben Conoy)

Gaius Baltar: the Chosen One

. Discuss what Head-6 says about knowing God's plan for Baltar (Season 2, RS Part II), and what the Cylon Ship's Hybrid said about the Chosen One in a Season 3 episode in which Baltar is with "D'Anna". During the episode, she mistakes herself for being the Chosen One in finding the identities of the Unknown Five models). This is later confirmed by Head-6 who tells Baltar that D'Anna wasn't the Chosen One, and that he was.

Also discuss from Season One, "Hand of God", where Head-6 helps Baltar realize his importance as the Instrument of God, then at the end of the episode, during the vision sequence, is seen leaning against a railing in his bathrobe (almost like Jesus on the Cross).

Disscuss during S3 when Baltar is visited in his cell by a woman who asks him to bless her child and he doesn't take it seriously. Head-6 tells Baltar that some people see him for what he truly is...which is what?

At the end of S3, Baltar is escorted away by civilian women, who throw a shawl over his head in an effort to help disguise and hide him. Almost gives him a Jesus-like quality.

The name Gaius may have been inspired from the biblical but real name which is Gauis Pontius. This was the father of Pontius Pilate who authorized the crucifixion of Jesus of Nazarath. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.115.94.170 (talk) 06:15, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

"Speculation about possible motives."

I fail to see what use the speculation section is in an encyclopedia. On a fan site it might be interesting to discuss it but that section is wholely unreferenced, speculative and in a couple of months will be shredded as the intentions of his actions become clear.

I've removed it. If anyone can find a justification WITHIN THE RULES OF WIKIPEDIA (That is, not counting reckless use of The Golden Rule) to restore it then please do so. 86.138.101.18 (talk) 01:59, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

"I fail to see what use the speculation section is an encyclopedia...On a fan site it might be interesting to discuss it..."

Character pages for Battlestar Galactica have an affiliation listed (considering the very nature of the series this seems like a necessary distinction), and since Baltar's is questionable the section was added to prevent an edit war in the "Affiliation" box at the top of the page. While this is of course great fodder for debate, I tried very hard to make sure the section removed included all viewpoints on Baltar's behavior and his possible motivations. This is similar to the "Criticism" sections of some other articles.

"...that section is wholely unreferenced, speculative..."

I completely agree that the section needs some references to be brought closer in line with Wikipedia standards, unfortunately research isn't my strongpoint and I was hoping some more devoted fans would be able to dig something up. I realize this is difficult since it's a work of fiction to find references that are unbiased and notable, but I don't think that merits complete deletion as that leaves a large aspect of this character completely unnoted.

"...and in a couple of months will be shredded as the intentions of his actions become clear."

Then it's perfectly acceptable to edit the article as more information becomes available. This is done on a regular basis and there is even a template available for articles that are dependent on current events or are still evolving situations. However, as far as I know (I confess I don't follow the series that closely) his intentions are still left purposefully vague and need to be addressed in the article to rectify the Affiliation controversy.

"Wikipedia has a neutral point of view, which means we strive for articles that advocate no single point of view. Sometimes this requires representing multiple points of view, presenting each point of view accurately, providing context for any given point of view, and presenting no one point of view as "the truth" or "the best view." It means citing verifiable, authoritative sources whenever possible, especially on controversial topics. When a conflict arises regarding neutrality, declare a cool-down period and tag the article as disputed, hammer out details on the talk page, and follow dispute resolution."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars

So I'd say we just need some sources or examples to make the information verifiable, if at all possible, and the section can be included again until more of the series is revealed. Until then I'm putting the section back in with the Unreferenced template. Feel free to add details to the section to make it more acceptable for Wikipedia! Garonyldas (talk) 14:12, 13 January 2009 (UTC) EDIT: Garonyldas (talk) 17:52, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Because even though his actions are often destructive, and he is selfish in the extreme, he does not seem to be completely evil, more foolish and misled. Even as a collaborator, he has great doubts. --MacRusgail (talk) 18:44, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Baltar at the end

Baltar isnt anguishing because he knows a little about farming. Baltar is regretting his mistreatment and abandonment of his farmer father. This is clearly spelled out in the final episodes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.113.49.126 (talk) 07:04, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Plot tag

I've tagged the page as consisting almost entirely of plot since there is no discussion of the reception, impact, and significance of the character. Please redress this by adding such, citing reliable sources to allow for verification. Battlestar Galactica and philosophy: knowledge here begins out there and Cylons in America: critical studies in Battlestar Galactica look to have material that would add to the article. Hiding T 13:31, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

• New boundaries in political science fiction & Sith, slayers, stargates & cyborgs: modern mythology in the new millennium also. Hiding T 13:32, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

• I have removed the tag as redundant and intrusive now that we have this discussion. The article is large and so broad-brush banners are unhelpful and off-putting. What are required now are specific, actionable points. Colonel Warden (talk) 18:45, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

• I'll re-add the tag since the issue hasn't been addressed. If I haven't made it clear enough, I apologise, but what the article needs is a section which discusses the character from outside of the plot. Currently, the article consists of summarised plot events. Once the article has moved away from that and towards an encyclopedic treatment, we can remove the tag. You may not like the tag being present, but the consensus is to tag articles that require clean up until such time as the clean up has happened. Please don't remove the tag until the actionable points are addressed. As you believe the article is too long, and I agree, let's make that another actionable point. So the actionable points regarding the clean up are:

• Article overly long;
• Article needs editing to summarise secondary sources and to quote and refer to said sources within the text
• Article needs to rely less on summarising plot

• Cheers muchly, Hiding T 11:41, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

--

I don't really see why a character page for a tv show needs many citations, but I'll make the article more concise. byelf2007 —Preceding undated comment added 20:28, 16 October 2009 (UTC).

• Have a look at Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:No original research and the manual of style regarding fiction, they might explain. If not, I'll gladly summarise. Hiding T 19:51, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

List of controversial actions

I've removed list of controversial actions for a number of reasons, but mostly because it's pure original research. Even if it is based on the show, it's really just some editor's personal thoughts on the topic. And it doesn't really bring anything to the article aside from fancruft. — HelloAnnyong ^{(say whaaat?!)} 18:59, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Schizophrenia

Why is that not mentioned? Seems like there is a need here to whitewash the guy. This entire article sounds like it has been written by someone with a giant boner for baltar. --Stubborn Myth (talk) 18:33, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

What are you blathering about? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.117.1.11 (talk) 20:02, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Yep, Baltar quite probably got schizophrenia or something like that. I realised this in the second or third episode.

Hears voices, has other halluzinations, is paranoid, I guess if you look up in ICD you'll notice more symptomes. 85.22.86.85 (talk) 17:45, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Uh and he has that crazy good thing, which also is typical for schizophrenia or at least it's presentation in media. 85.22.86.85 (talk) 17:47, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Also stated in S02E07 85.22.84.195 (talk) 17:11, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

And later Baltar takes pills, maybe to control schizophrenia? 85.22.7.136 (talk) 06:21, 15 June 2022 (UTC)