Talk:Provincial executive

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move. MikeLynch (talk) 06:29, 24 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Gedeputeerde staten → States Deputed – Gedeputeerde Staten is the Dutch term, States Deputed the English one. Wikix (talk) 11:17, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What is your assertion based on? Because U.S. Library of Congress uses Gedeputeerde Staten and does not use States Deputed. AbstractIllusions (talk) 13:18, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The English Wikipedia also uses States-Provincial for Provinciale Staten and Queen's Commissioner for Commissaris van de Koningin. Wikix (talk) 15:01, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. We need a reliable source that States Deputed is a genuine title and not just a poor translation into English. Because frankly it doesn't mean a lot in English. Foreign-language terms should not be translated unless there's a good reason. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:27, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Provisional Oppose - coming here coincidentally directly after looking at Talk:Berlin Hauptbahnhof we don't need more examples of "invented WikiEnglish" names when English printed sources use local ones. A fairly sure initial way of checking if a foreign term is used in English is applying WP:the 'The' test: "the Hauptbahnhof", "the Gedeputeerde staten" which in this case produces results like Studia Rosenthaliana Volume 30 - Page 45 1996 "J.L. de Leao Laguna was a member of the Gedeputeerde Staten (provincial executive) from 13 July 1878 until his death" I could be swayed by further production of a majority of sources demonstrating "States Deputed". In ictu oculi (talk) 23:07, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Normally an article needs refs more than/before RM. So I've added a cn tag to lede, a reflist section, and as the the first two refs two Introduction to Dutch Law textbooks which popped out of a GB search. Wikix, please add something to replace the cn tag if possible, Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:22, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

See Provincial politics in the Netherlands. In this article the English terms are used: Queen's Commissioner, States Provincial and States Deputed. And compare with Dutch politics on national level; there are also used the English terms like House of Representatives (Netherlands), Senate (Netherlands) and Cabinet of the Netherlands. Wikix (talk) 10:01, 29 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, just because they're used in another Wikipedia article doesn't mean they're used elsewhere. And the other terms translate directly, whereas this one doesn't. That's the issue. "House of Representatives", "Senate", "Cabinet" and "Queen's Commissioner" all mean something in English. Although House of Representatives and Senate aren't anything like the actual Dutch names, these are the names they use on the English versions of their own websites. Cabinet (Dutch: Kabinet) and Queen's Commissioner (Dutch: Commissaris van de Koningin) are direct translations into good English. States Deputed, on the other hand, is meaningless in English. It's not a noun and it doesn't really even mean anything as an adjective. "States Deputies" would probably be the closest we can get in English, but even that's not accurate. This is the danger of trying to translate from one language to another; some phrases and words translate directly, but some just have no proper translation. In the latter case, forcing a translation is pointless and meaningless, and in Wikipedia terms original research. In these circumstances, probably best to leave it as it is. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:21, 29 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I guess that the term Gedeputeerde Staten isn't quite clear to English speakers, on the other hand States Deputed can enlighten English speakers about the subject the article is referring to. Also compare with e.g. German subdivisions, as you can see in the Category:Districts of Germany, in German those districts are called (Land)kreise but the English Wikipedia has chosen to call them districts. Wikix (talk) 13:07, 29 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't enlighten English-speakers about anything, since it actually doesn't mean anything in English! "States" and "Deputed" do not go together to form a meaningful phrase. And I fail to see the relevance of Landkreise to this discussion, since they are generally (if translated at all) known as districts in English. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:42, 29 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - If you visit the [Noord Holland Provincial Council website] you will see that they use the term "Provincial Executive", not "States Deputed". If one want to use an English term, then please create a page "Provincial Executive" which has links to, amongst others, Gedeputeerde staten. BTW, the same website uses the term "Queen's Commissioner". Martinvl (talk) 07:36, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I can see no point in moving the article to a title that is pure gibberish and means nothing to the average English speaker. Skinsmoke (talk) 07:41, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

States Deputed or Provincial Executive

"States Deputed" means nothing in English, but "Provincial Executive", the terminology used on the English websites of a number of Dutch provinces is meaningful. I have reworked this article to give a consistent approach using teh Dutch terminology with an English translation in the lede. I trust that this works. Martinvl (talk) 18:06, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

So far so good, but the hyphen between Provincial and Executive in the present title is awkward, in my humble opinion. There isn't normally a hyphen between an adjective and a noun in English, is there? In the first dozens of Google results, Wikipedia is the only one with this spelling. Bever (talk) 14:16, 23 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:States-provincial which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 01:17, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]