Talk:George Assang

Origins and Julian Assange connection

I have included 2 citations to the George Georgatos article, as one (Indymedia) is the original apparently, while the other (Treaty Republic) has a better photo and caption and a newspaper clipping with the family referred to. I have included all of George Assang's father's names in order to show the variant Chinese english transliterations and anglizations. In other other words Au Sang (or Ah Sang) is probably a Cantonese name, with Sun Tai Lee/Sun Tye Lee representing the pronunciation of the Chinese characters in the Mandarin dialect/language.Brunswicknic (talk) 10:51, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Indymedia is not a reliable source. "Indymedia is a collective providing a platform for grassroots media-makers to create radical, accurate, and passionate coverage of struggles and movements working for social, environmental and economic justice. Everyone is a witness. Everyone is a journalist". Treaty Republic is just hosting a copy of that indymedia article and is not a reliable source.

How relevant to George's article that Julian might be his step grandson? I think not very. Undue weight is being given to a largely irrelevant claim supported by sketching evidence. Doesn't belong here. duffbeerforme (talk) 03:52, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

I can appreciate that you may dislike Indymedia's politics, but a factual, researched article seems just that. Nevertheless if you don't accept Indymedia what about Eureka Street, Biography.com, NDTV, CNN, Crikey.com.au, media-scholars.integrityshop.org ... www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=24468, www.biography.com/people/julian-assange-20688499, www.ndtv.com/article/.../assange-s-stepfather-on-his-childhood-71622, Julian Assange Step-father Interview. Mike Duffy CNN: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewwa-ySmUnI, www.crikey.com.au/.../rundle-on-the-assange-bio-not-a-manuscript-that-anyone-would-intend-to-publish/, http://media-scholars.integrityshop.org/Julian_Assange/item. As for the relevance, he uses his step-father's name, and therefore the name of his step-grandfather, etc. In the article disputed by you, but also in some of the other sources he refers to Brett Assange by the term "father". That seems to indicate that he felt the relationship has some degree of relevance to Julian Assange. George's son Brett has been publicly interviewed about Julian (CNN), wikipedia is full of "so-and-so had a child who had a child who is famous". It is an encyclopaedia and the fact that a famous person has strong connections to the Torres Strait Islander and Australian-Chinese communities, and to a relatively noteworthy media (singing and TV) person is noteworthy is it not? Or is this yet another case of "if it is not a US fictional TV programme, what relevance to Wikipedia is it"?Brunswicknic (talk) 12:18, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Have a read of what makes a reliable source. duffbeerforme (talk) 12:30, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

"factual, researched article"? How factual? When it says "I am sure I haven't got everything in this article one hundred per cent accurate however that is not the point of the article, however I am happy to correct where shown and required." duffbeerforme (talk) 12:37, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

"refers to Brett Assange by the term "father".". "Brett has been publicly interviewed about Julian". "he uses his step-father's name". This article is about George Assang, not Brett or Julian Assange. That Julian is "a famous person has strong connections to the Torres Strait Islander and Australian-Chinese communities" is relevant to Julian, It may belong properly written in his article, not here. duffbeerforme (talk) 12:43, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

In the Indymedia article referred to above, it refers to a New Yorker interview with Julian Assange, this seems be the one here: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/06/07/no-secrets where Ah Sang is referred to. George Georgatos then refers to Australian Electoral Records and Ancestry.com. He refers to both Julian and Brett Assange discussing their grandparent/parent respectively George Assang, and their great-grandparent/grandparent George Ah Sang, in other sources, see above. Again Julian Assange refers to George Assange and George Ah Sang as ancestors in this material. As for indymedia, you quote a quote from its homepage reproduced in the Wikipedia article on Indymedia, here is the first paragraph of that Wikipedia article: "The Independent Media Center (also known as Indymedia or IMC) is a global participatory network of journalists that report on political and social issues. It originated during the Seattle anti-WTO protests worldwide in 1999 and remains closely associated with the global justice movement, which criticizes neo-liberalism and its associated institutions. Indymedia uses an open publishing and democratic media process that allows anybody to contribute". Sounds like a wiki organisation to me, and no where does this Wikipedia article say that that it's journalism is completely unreliable. I see lots of references to media organisations in Wikipedia articles, is it official Wikipedia policy saying this one is different? More importantly, I note that the George Georgatos article has not publicly criticised as being in error by it's subject or anyone else. So to conclude: Julian Assange (who is noteworthy enough to have a wikipedia article on him) is the stepson of Brett Assange, uses his surname and refers to him as father. Brett Assange is the son of George Assang, who has a wikipedia article about him. An article discussing George Assang's father has been published using Australian Electoral Records and genealogical material from Ancestry.com, as well as quoting Julian Assange interviews in the New Yorker and Lonely Planet.com. It has not been criticised as false in the 2 1/2 years it has been public, by Julian Assange, Brett Assange or anyone else. I think this is all strong enough for wikipedia. There are many Wikipedia articles naming the children, grand-children and son on of a person in the article. This is common practice for Wikipedia. I do think it is noteworthy that George Assang, the singer and actor of Torres Strait Islander and Chinese descent had a grandson who is famous worldwide. I am reverting your revertBrunswicknic (talk) 13:00, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

I quoted directly from their site, not from Wikipedia.

Indymedia is still not a reliable source. From the quote you supplied above, "Indymedia uses an open publishing and democratic media process that allows anybody to contribute". There in a nutshell is why it is not a reliable source, open publishing. "Sounds like a wiki organisation to me". Yep and wiki's are not reliable sources. Wikipedia is also not a reliable source and should never be used as a reference (with uncommon exceptions about itself). A quote from the reliable source noticeboard: "Open publishing sites, such as OhMyNews, Indymedia, and Slashdot are not reliable sources." [1].

"quoting Julian Assange interviews in the New Yorker and Lonely Planet.com." Does it? The quotes used are not from the New Yorker, they mention the origin of Assange, but not Brett of George (who has a different surname). The other possible place, lonely planet.com? Really? Cause they have a long history of interviewing activists. Would that source be a forum [2]? Not good enough.

"refers to Australian Electoral Records and Ancestry.com." then says nothing about the individuals in question. What use would Australian Electoral Records be? Just that the names exist?

It's a questionable article on an unusable source. If you don't believe me let's ask the reliable sources notice board.

A George Assange had for a short time a step grandson who was famous. Was he the famous singer of similar name? Maybe, but there has been no reliable source definitely saying so. Indymedia article speculates it probably is but it's not certain. duffbeerforme (talk) 11:29, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

More than just questionable. I'm going to criticize it as false, The Indymedia article is bullshit. It contains this paragraph

Mr Assange began university study several years before leaving his studies to found WikiLeaks, and while at the University of Melbourne gave an interview to the student publication Meanjin (Volume 65, University of Melbourne, 2006) and referred to a stage name of his nightclub performer/actor great-grandfather. “Vic Sabrino is yet another elusive figure. ‘Sabrino’ , in the first place, was merely a stage name for George Assang, a Torres Strait Islander… because it was felt a mixed-blood Asian blackfella had less chance of making it than some would-be Italian stallion a la Dean Martin.”

That paragraph exposes the article as a blatant fraud. It contains quotes that it attributes to Julian Assange. These quotes do come from a 2006 publication of Meanjin (and reproduced in a Meanjin Anthology, edited by Sally Heath and published by Melbourne University Press in 2012). The article was "BEFORE THE BIG BANG: WHAT WAS the first australian ROCK&ROLL RECORD?" and was written by Clinton Walker. These are not quotes from Julian Assange. There is no interview with Assange. There is no mention of Assange. It is totally unrelated to Assange.

The first part comes from this paragraph

Vic Sabrino is yet another elusive figure. ‘Sabrino’ was merely a stage name for George Assang, a Torres Straight Islander who was regarded by many as the only man in Australia in the 50s who could really sing the blues, which he did with bands like Graeme Bell’s. “He was the only guy I knew who could silence a Sydney pub,” says his then-agent John Singer. “The only other guy was Harry Belafonte.”

The second half the next paragraph

Assang was taken under the wing of Red Perksey, whose grooming included changing his name, presumably because it was felt a mixed-blood Asian-blackfella had less chance of making it than some would-be Italian stallion a la Dean Martin. Perksey’s arrangement of Sabrino’s debut version of “Rock Around the Clock” is better than stiff, and even features a fairly honking sax solo. But it’s Sabrino’s deeply-hued vocalese that lifts the track.

A blatant lie about the Meanjin article.

A fraudulent article from an unusable source. Don't bring this crap back. duffbeerforme (talk) 11:19, 30 January 2015 (UTC)