Talk:Golden Brown

Three feel

"Golden Brown" was a waltzing, harpsichord-led ballad in a 6/8 time signature from The Stranglers. (The instrumental bridges add an extra beat in every other measure, effectively producing a 13/8 time signature), with the 7 inch record featuring B-side "Love 30".

The beat seems to be accented on the first of every three, i.e., 3/4 time, 4/4 on the instrumental bridge. Can anyone confirm?

Yes. It's either 3+3+3+4 or 3+3+3+2+2 (the drum pattern suggests the latter). KovacsUr 22:20, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, actually it switches between 3+3+3+4 (or 3+3+3+2+2) and 3+3+3+3.

For the complete song it's:

3334333433343334

33333333333333333333

3334333433343334

33333333333333333333

3334333433343334

33333333333333333333

3334333433343334

333333333333333333333333

3333333333333333

33333333

and yes, it's a song about Gordon Brown .... 84.115.129.76 20:46, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

To me it just sounds like a continual 4/4 pattern at those parts with accents that give it that 3/4 feel. The verses and what not are obviously 3/4 though —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.175.25.45 (talk) 11:06, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ooooh, that's a lot of 3s, isn't it. We might need to ask for some expert musical advice from someone like me ol' china plate Threesie. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:11, 11 February 2021 (UTC) [reply]

This song make s me wanna live in the 1800's! Woot.

Undoubtedly the greatest song ever to be produced.....This ode to heroin makes one feel what others may call the eutopian effects of the drug.......without actually taking the drug! This unique piece identifies the glorious alternatives to drug use and with it, the world is a better place! (A.K.S)

The Irish station Today FM played Skin Deep today (16th October 2006). So I guess that paragragh towards the end of the page is incorrect.

No-one has mentioned that this song sounds like it's about Gordon Brown. But alas, I suppose that isn't the sort of thing you can put in an entry here... 62.136.191.88 16:15, 26 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I took out an unsourced claim that also didn't adhere to Wikipedia style guidelines. If you want to source it and make it encyclopedic, here it is: "+Edit By a Iranian User:That phrase is Shiraz ( The beautiful city in Iran) and 6/8 is most Popular rythem in Iran.The "Throughout the" in 5th line is too." 68.8.134.10 06:18, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Coverart

The coverart used in this article is a bootleg Russian flexidisk version [1] and not the official coverart (white text on brown background, or gold on brown on most reissues). And it seems these releases are considered official on the Love 30 article. Best change this. Korinkami 19:52, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Heroin

Hugh Cornwell has admitted in his autobiography that the song IS about heroin. TomGreen 14:22, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

The piece definitely shifts between 3/4 and 4/4, not 6/8 and 7/8!

"However, even as of 2004, the Irish Today FM radio station would always play this track as a substitute for The Stranglers' "Skin Deep", which is more obviously about heroin usage".

I'm completly confused by this. Either it's written the wrong way round i.e. the radio station would play Skin Deep INSTEAD of Golden Brown or I'm missing something. I've just read the lyrics to Skin Deep and, to me, it seems about being careful about being drawn into a relationship on beauty (which is is only Skin Deep) alone. Furthermore, the above quote seems to appear word for word on a number of other websites which don't seem to be any more official than this

LewisR 21:44, 5 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Gordon Brown

And I thought this was a song on Gordon Brown when I heard it. At least its melody always comes to my mind whenever Gordon is mentioned in the news, and apparently I'm not the only one who had this association .... --84.115.129.76 13:15, 10 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I came to this talk page wondering why Gordon was "Not to be confused with" this article. Now I know why!

But seriously- is that really necessary? I don't see how he would be commonly confused with this song. EcthelionGenesis (talk) 22:34, 19 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I came here to remove it ;) – it's not a common confusion, and it's not really a suitable disambiguation. Changed. Cycle~ (talk) 19:48, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Golden Brown.jpg

Image:Golden Brown.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 16:58, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Golden Brown.jpg

Image:Golden Brown.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 18:41, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mondegreen

How is 'with my mind she runs' a mondegreen? What could those words be mistaken for? F W Nietzsche (talk) 04:58, 1 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"With my man she runs", for example. That was what I assumed the words actually were, for many years long before the coming of the Internet.

Nuttyskin (talk) 11:23, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Or alternatively, "With my manchirons". What the heck is a "manchiron"? I have no idea. It was the sudden urge to find out after all these years, when the song came up on my playlist, that lead me to discover: (a) The correct lyrics, and (b) that I'm not the only person in the world who mishears this. Nezuji (talk) 01:54, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wind

Couldn't "Wind" (an outro of Naruto) be called a cover version of golden brown? I think to absolutely hear similar patterns. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.23.72.196 (talk) 06:38, 2 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sphinx

Is it significant, I wonder, that the word sphinx in Greek literally means strangler? Nuttyskin (talk) 11:25, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Time signature

"The song is a waltzing, harpsichord-led ballad alternating between 3/4 and 4/4. The song's characteristic opening phrase consists of three bars of 3/4 and one bar of 4/4" Not according to at least three separate publications of the sheet music, which has it constantly alternating between 6/8 and 7/8. Sheet 1 Sheet 2 Sheet 3 --Klock101 (talk) 20:59, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest that the article needs changing then, with the sources you've linked to being used as inline references. I have to say, I've always thought it was in 6/8 time and not 3/4. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 01:42, 31 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done. And you can't have a "waltzing" 6/8 - 7/8 compound, since a waltz is in 3/4. Guy (Help!) 12:10, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I would question that. Those 3 separate sources are actually all from the same website - probably the same arranger. I hear it as the posters above did - the keyboard (piano sound) is in a waltzing 3. The harpsichord is playing 6/8 within that (8th notes, not 16th notes as in the online arrangement). The drummer when he comes in is alternating between a bar of 6/8 and a bar of 3/4. Every fourth bar is in 4/4. When the voice comes in they drop the 4/4. It could be written out as it is in the online arrangement linked above, but the keyboard is doing a very clear 3 in a bar - nothing 6/8ish about it at all, so it seems unlikely that the keyboard player who wrote it was thinking of it that way (in 16th notes with the keyboard in 6/8). The only way to really nail that down would be to ask him. Earthling16 (talk) 00:46, 27 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Here are 4 sources online for arrangements of Golden Brown that show the instrumental opening written in 3/4 / 6/8 with every 4th bar in 4/4. http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/golden-brown-digital-sheet-music/19430568

http://m.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtdFPE.asp?ppn=MN0072322&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F

http://se22pianoschool.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/52692132-the-stranglers-golden-brown.pdf

http://musicnoteslib.com/file/37135/The_Stranglers-Golden_Brown.pdf

Earthling16 (talk) 09:24, 27 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm late to this discussion but would also like to point out it's a 3/4 and 4/4 rather than 6/8 and 7/8 feel. Regardless of what some online publication says, the difference is that 6/8 is 1 strong beat followed by 6 'weak' beats before beginning again. 3/4 has 1 strong beat followed by 2 'weaker' (although they're kind of stronger but that's another issue entirely) before a strong one again. In the song you can clearly feel that every 3 beats (or 4 in the 4/4 parts) there is a strong beat and the chord progression follows this too. Sheetmusicplus and the like aren't infallible, they're not much of a step above tab sites to be honest so they're best considered as a guide. If you want a reference (since I know wikipedia loves that, there's a good discussion in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbuj5xLEU-o Newo70 (talk) 05:19, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"baroque" instruments

The screen grab includes one baroque-style instrument (the harpsichord is probably a reproduction), the balance are entirely modern. If it were baroque then there would be no drum kit and the double bass would be a violone. Guy (Help!) 23:48, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Similarity to Dr. John's Croker Courtbullion

Melody, rhythm, and instrumentation are practically identical to the harpsichord sequence in Croker Courtbullion^[1] on Dr. John's Gris-Gris album, released in 1968.

^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H7j5R0Fnlc

Bill Turnbull

There is a whole section about Bill Turnbull waltzing to it and claiming it was a disaster because of the alternating 4/4 3/4, but from a video of the performance the 4/4 measure is absent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.75.115.38 (talk) 11:00, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

BBC Classic Animal Tracks

The song was used in the BBC Classic Animal Tracks TV series as a background music for a cheetah. It's almost impossible to find this series anywhere! Harjasusi (talk) 19:25, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Dave Brubeck "version"

Hello . I think there is a big error on this article : song writer of golden brown(not the lyrics) is M Paul Desmond -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qs1J612nZs .Thnks . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E0A:33:E250:1DD:DDC4:CED3:28B0 (talk) 09:13, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if you're serious, but Paul Desmond most certainly didn't write Golden Brown. The video you've linked is – as explained in the creator's comment on YouTube – a cleverly done but simulated parody of Golden Brown as if played by Dave Brubeck in the style of Take Five (which was written by Desmond). Dave.Dunford (talk) 18:47, 8 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I make a stupid error, Errare humanum est, sorry. Thanks^10 for your answer & job on wiki. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E0A:33:E250:D80A:8418:259B:2A56 (talk) 11:11, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This recent cover in the style of Brubeck is now commercially available via iTunes and Amazon, among other outlets: [2] What more do we need for inclusion in the article? --2003:EF:1700:B483:5DB9:6E6A:B4D1:170 (talk) 20:10, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

According to the creator's YouTube, the vinyl version of it has even made #24 in the UK vinyl singles chart back in October: [3] --2003:EF:1700:B483:5DB9:6E6A:B4D1:170 (talk) 21:15, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Proof from the Official Vinyl Singles Chart website: [4] The single stayed in the Top 40 for two weeks in October 2020, entering them at #34, and peaking at #24 the next week. There was no third week for the single, because it was sold out and they couldn't press more copies. --2003:EF:1700:B483:5DB9:6E6A:B4D1:170 (talk) 21:21, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's very clever. Delightful. Clever video too. But is there any coverage by secondary sources? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:04, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've googled a few secondary reviews for the fake Brubeck version:

Michael, James. New 7″ vinyl mixes Dave Brubeck into The Stranglers — The Take Vibe, The New LoFi, January 16th, 2021 (a source good enough to be used on our article Serious Klein)
Single of the Week: The Take Vibe E.P., DJ D-Mac & Associates, October 2, 2020
Take Vibe E.P. - Golden Brown, Nostalgia King, October 7, 2020 (a source already in use on articles such as Citizen Kane, Snuff Garrett, and Putham Pudhu Kaalai)
Gorton, TJ. The Stranglers meet Dave Brubeck on this incredible 7inch release on Jazz Room Records, Beat Caffeine, October 14, 2020
The TAKE VIBE EP, Golden Brown, Juno Records
Golden Brown, Take Vibe E.P., JAZZR005, deejay.de
Hebeisen, Ane. Die besten Songs 2020 (Teil 2) ("The Best Songs of 2020 (Part 2)"), Tages-Anzeiger, December 30, 2020

Besides those reviews, the cover has also found its way into official over-the-air FM radio station playlists:

At least some of those playlists look like they're not regular rotation, but rather special information programs to showcase new or special records, where the host would present background information for every song. --2003:EF:1700:B483:5DB9:6E6A:B4D1:170 (talk) 09:24, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, so I've gone and added some of these sources along with more background information on the cover version from those sources into the article. --2003:EF:1700:B483:5DB9:6E6A:B4D1:170 (talk) 09:57, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good to me, maybe a few more could be added, to support notability? I've done a few minor copy edits. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:22, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent. I would be lying if I said English was my first language. The only issue I see is a confusion over what "Take Vibe" is supposed to be. I know some of the sources I've brought up interpret it as the title of the cover song, whereas I think it's meant to be the name of the supposed outfit or band performing the cover, akin to Whistlin' Jack Smith. Like, something akin to a stage persona or pen name. As for more sources, I've found a few in Spanish and Portuguese, but I can't read them. --2003:EF:1700:B483:5DB9:6E6A:B4D1:170 (talk) 18:03, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I think it's essentially just a stage name or a deliberately anonymous EP title, the musician credits appearing separately on the label. The primary source is here. I'm vey glad to see the video has been posted on YouTube by JAZZ ROOM RECORDS here. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:24, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No mention of Dave Brubeck Quartet

You pity me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:908:899:2920:AD79:B887:38AE:1A8F (talk) 22:21, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

FrankMusik 2009 sample, then 2022 cover and re-sample

Singer/Songwriter/Producer FrankMusik sampled the track for his 2009 Complete Me album track “When You’re Around”. In 2022, he produced a full cover of the track and a reproduction of his 2009 album track, this time sampling his own cover. Mcnaugha (talk) 14:47, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Time signature?

The song has been described as having the intro portion (and similar sections) in several different but similar time signatures. The numbers I see in the sources are ¹³
₈ ; alternating measures of ⁶
₈ and ⁷
₈ (adding up to 13); and three measures of ³
₄ plus one of ⁴
₄ (adding up to 13). All of these are close enough to be mentioned. The source saying ¹³
₈ is a staff-penned assessment by AllMusic, but nobody looking at the music would agree that it is actually 13 beats in one measure. The AllMusic description is more of an impression, I think, but still interesting to our readers.

The song's sheet music is always in printed as ⁶
₈ plus a bit of ⁷
₈.[8][9][10] There is no reason why we should purposely misrepresent the song as having 13 beats per measure when it doesn't. Binksternet (talk) 18:19, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Any information on a Wikipedia page needs to be supported by reliable published sources. If all the sources say it is 13/8 then, as far as Wikipedia is concerning it is 13/8. MrMajors (talk) 07:22, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Your preferred source has a fatal contradiction. It says "For a start it's in 13/8 time, three bars of 3/4 time" which is complete nonsense. According to WP:CONTEXTMATTERS, your source fails to bring the required reliability to this issue. Wikipedia does not require us to cling to wrong facts in the face of correct information. Binksternet (talk) 15:12, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

My source, the composer, "fails to bring the required reliability", yet the sheet music (credited to the same person) is a valid source? You can't have it both ways. MrMajors (talk) 16:32, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The composer is being casually interviewed, not tested and graded on accuracy. In the interview, he mixes up his time signatures, flipping back and forth between various /8 and /4 signatures without a care, as if they are the same. Of course they are not. Binksternet (talk) 17:26, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A book co-written by the composer dedicated to a song by song analysis of their music isn't a casual interview. MrMajors (talk) 19:51, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No matter the source, the composer is stating impossibilities. Per WP:CONTEXTMATTERS, we are not required to follow him off the cliff. Binksternet (talk) 07:54, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H7j5R0Fnlc

[1]