Talk:Historical Chinese phonology

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This page needs a lot of work. I will get to it if/when I can.Chris B 07:29, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I wonder if we could have discussion of the following terms that I was just looking for but cannot find wiki information about, even on the Chinese page. 精組, 庄組, 端組, 章組. Tibetologist (talk) 10:44, 14 January 2010 (UTC) el

Differences between systems and the introduction of Chinese characters[edit]

I'd say the system represented here is really a bit different from what I've learnt and people I know online use. e.g. We think the devision III-3 chongniu has a medial of /-ri-/ (phonologically, not meaning such combination was the case of pronunciation), whose /r/ is not necessarily equal to the /r/ medial of division II's but share the same origin in OC with it, we agree that in EMC the final 模 represents /uo/ but not /u/ (and no pure /u/ existed then after former /u/ became /əu/), and we never conceived or suggested the existence of any "long vowel". I can keep listing, and the problem gets especially noticeable in OC reconstruction which basically is a matter of dispute.

I also seriously suggest that we introduce Chinese characters to name the initials and finals, with IPA of reconstructions beside them, because of their uncertain nature, to reduce disputing and unfamilarity of different systems, and because of the factual practice and tradition of doing so. Agree?


Rethliopuks (talk) 16:32, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

I will seriously rewrite this article later when I will be free...In China I have seen absolutely nobody who has ever suggested a long vowel in EMC. EMC does not, in my and our opinion, need a long vowel.

I will introduce Chinese characters (as a main method) with English/IPA accomnapying. I will mainl use phonological/phonemical descriptions but not phonetical.

Rethliopuks (talk) 08:13, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

The article suffers from a lack of references, which makes it hard to see where the various forms come from. /-aː-/ for 麻 in LMC comes from Pulleyblank, I think.
I don't think using Chinese characters for the MC initials would be helpful. There's little dispute about the values of the initials, and the alphabetic notations are much clearer.
On the other hand there's no consensus on the finals, and choosing an IPA form would be difficult. The finals are often referred to by Chinese character and modern pinyin, though I'm not sure that would be very useful to a non-specialist readership. Kanguole 00:39, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Long vowels?[edit]

Starting from From Old Chinese to Early Middle Chinese long /a:/ is mentioned several times. Could someone clear up whence it (presumably) comes from? Our Old Chinese phonology page mentions only six vowels. Crom daba (talk) 23:31, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

As I mentioned above, I think it comes from Pulleyblank's Middle Chinese: A Study in Historical Phonology. He has it in Middle Chinese division II finals.
The whole article is in very poor shape. Kanguole 00:14, 19 March 2017 (UTC)