Talk:Jürgen Brocke

This page was proposed for deletion by K.e.coffman (talk · contribs) on 25 December 2016 with the comment:
#REDIRECT List of Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross recipients (Bn–Bz) -- see Talk
It was contested by Icewhiz (talk · contribs) on 2017-04-23 with the comment:
Undid revision 756572047 by K.e.coffman (talk) notable ace

This page was proposed for deletion by K.e.coffman (talk · contribs) on 14 October 2017 with the comment:
Reverted to revision 756572047 by K.e.coffman (talk): Restore redirect, see tp. (TW)
It was contested by Pudeo (talk · contribs) on 2019-08-17 with the comment:
Reverted to revision 804953810 by MarnetteD (talk): Notable topic, use AfD if disagree (TW)

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Aviation: Biography

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Biography: Military

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Notability

Does not meet WP:SOLDIER & sig RS coverage not found link.

No de.Wiki article. Please also see a note at MilHist Talk Archives for background behind the redirect. K.e.coffman (talk) 06:29, 25 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Notable due to his status as a Flying ace with a high claimed kills counts. As you can see in List of World War II flying aces - flyers with a much smaller kill count have articles - with the notability being their kill count and nothing else. Being an aerial ace (with a significant count for a particular conflict - 5 would be borderline for WWII, but would confer significance in any other conflict - mid-double digits and up for WWII is clearly significant). notable per SOLDIER: " Played an important role in a significant military event such as a major battle or campaign" - kill counts of these magnitude are a significant material and personnel (aviation - expensive to train) advantage. Soviets were competitive in the air from the end of 1942 and onward - and in event taking out a regiment sized enemy force - Aviation regiment (Soviet Union) single handed is significant regardless of opposition quality. The high kill count of the top German aviators was just due to enemy opposition - but because they kept on flying combat ops (as opposed to being tasked to training / command) - until they died / severely wounded / war ended - this was detrimental to the German effort on a strategic level, but on a personal level allowed very skilled pilots to shine (gaining significant experience and improving beyond the level of other forces with a saner personnel mgmt strategy).Icewhiz (talk) 11:12, 23 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect

Restoring the redirect. Successful completion of missions (sorties flown, # of enemy aircraft shot down, etc) is not part of SOLDIER. A MilHist RfC on this topic has failed to gain consensus in May of 2017:

MilHist:RfC on the notability of flying aces.

For a relevant AfD, please see:

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fritz Lüddecke, which closed as "Delete" in September 2017.

Please also see the discussion with the editor who had earlier objected to the redirect: Link. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:26, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]