Talk:J. Lewis Crozer Library

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A fact from J. Lewis Crozer Library appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 8 September 2023 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the J. Lewis Crozer Library was the third library established in Pennsylvania?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2023/September. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/J. Lewis Crozer Library.

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Lightburst (talk) 19:10, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Article history

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J. Lewis Crozer Library

... that the J. Lewis Crozer Library (pictured) was the third library established in Pennsylvania? Source: It was the third library established in Pennsylvania.
- Reviewed: Big John Dodo

Created by Dwkaminski (talk). Self-nominated at 13:28, 25 August 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/J. Lewis Crozer Library; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

* General eligibility:
New enough:
Long enough:
Other problems:

Policy compliance:

Adequate sourcing:
Neutral:
Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
Other problems:

Hook eligibility:

Cited:
Interesting:
Other problems:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: - Not done
Overall: Aside from the qpq, everything seems fine. Once the qpq is completed the article should meet eligibility criteria. Graearms (talk) 19:18, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Graearms: Thanks for the review. QPQ on Big John Dodo DYK submission has been completed. Dwkaminski (talk) 13:14, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Dwkaminski:

The nomination should meet all eligibility criteria now. Graearms (talk) 13:38, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Dwkaminski and Graearms: I think it may have been interesting to include 1769 in the hook for context. But it works as is. Lightburst (talk) 19:09, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Dubious[edit]

Copying from my main page comment: "*... that the J. Lewis Crozer Library was the third library established in Pennsylvania? this claim is dubious, a simple search finds three libraries before this one: the Library Company of Philadelphia (1731 according to our article), the Darby Free Library (1743 according to our article) and the University of Pennsylvania Libraries (which was founded in 1750 according to our article). Meanwhile J. Lewis Crozer Library was founded in 1769. I'm also dubious of the source of the claim, which appears self-published. Therapyisgood (talk) 04:30, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

See also here and work back. Therapyisgood (talk) 04:33, 8 September 2023 (UTC)"[reply]
Perhaps the qualifier "public" before library would reduce your concern. Definitely agree that Library Company of Philadelphia and Darby Free Library were first. I would not think the University of Penn library is public. Please change the statement if you feel the source you link to above is stronger. Dwkaminski (talk) 17:33, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
... that the J. Lewis Crozer Library was the third library established in Pennsylvania? this claim is dubious, a simple search finds three libraries before this one: the Library Company of Philadelphia (1731 according to our article), the Darby Free Library (1743 according to our article) and the University of Pennsylvania Libraries (which was founded in 1750 according to our article). Meanwhile J. Lewis Crozer Library was founded in 1769. I'm also dubious of the source of the claim, which appears self-published. Therapyisgood (talk) 04:30, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- See also here and work back. Therapyisgood (talk) 04:33, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  Summoning the DYK team that has had involvement: Dwkaminski (as nominator), Graearms (as reviewer), Lightburst (as promoter to prep), and Z1720 (as promoter to queue). Schwede 66 04:48, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's not an acceptable source for that claim. Mackensen (talk) 12:12, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've tagged as dubious in the article, can this be pulled? Therapyisgood (talk) 14:06, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Therapyisgood Not sure why you are being so pushy here. Some of us are just now having a look. Is this a case of you trying to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS? Lightburst (talk) 14:17, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest to change to something like

... that the J. Lewis Crozer Library started with 163 books?

If people want to emphasise the age, just mention the year 1769. —Kusma (talk) 14:23, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Kusma: great minds! Lightburst (talk) 14:30, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) @Schwede66: Thanks for the ping. How about we switch the hook to some other fact in the article.

ALT1 ... that when the J. Lewis Crozer Library (pictured) was founded in 1769 they had 163 books? I cannot access the reference, and I do not see much else that is hooky. Lightburst (talk) 14:27, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Changed to something like this, please check for further copyedits. —Kusma (talk) 15:41, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Noting that I have looked at the source, and while it is from the 19th century I see no reason to doubt it. —Kusma (talk) 15:42, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Coming in late on this. I replied on the talk page first. Looks like what's done is done. However... Perhaps the qualifier "public" before library would have reduced concern. Definitely agree that Library Company of Philadelphia and Darby Free Library were first. I would not think the University of Penn library is public.Dwkaminski (talk) 17:42, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That would not have improved anything, as nobody seems to have found a decent source for the claim "third public library in Pennsylvania" either. Ideally, this should come from a neutral scholarly source about libraries in Pennsylvania, but it certainly should not come from the library's parent organisation (and they just claim the disproved "third library"; turning that into "third public library" would be WP:OR). —Kusma (talk) 21:06, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Kusma: I removed the third library claim and altered it to "one of the earliest libraries established" supported by the Flint reference. I also removed the dubious tag. Dwkaminski (talk) 13:10, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]