Talk:Jack Sheppard (cave diver)

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Disputed

There is a conflict here with Wookey Hole Caves which claims : "In 1935, two Post Office engineers, Graham Balcombe and John Arthur "Jack" Sheppard penetrated 170 ft (52 m) into the cave, reaching "Chamber 7" using standard diving dress. The event was the first successful cave dive in Britain." Derek Andrews (talk) 11:26, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You've got a sharp eye. Unfortunately I've lent out all my history of cave diving books (eg Martyn Farr's book) to be able to check it out. I don't think there is really a conflict; it's the same pair of guys trying out different sets of equipment in caves within 20 miles of each other in roughly the same year. I'm pretty sure that the Wookey Hole dive was using the old-fashioned brass helmet style diving equipment which is fed from the surface by a hose. I think the Swildon's dive used a self-contained oxygen rebreather apparatus. Depending on how you define it, one of them counts as the first, but since it involved the same guy in both instances, he remains the pioneer. For tourism purposes, Wookey Hole has an interest in claiming to be the first. But actually doing it self-contained is a whole different kettle of mud and probably represents the actual break-through.Goatchurch (talk) 23:13, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It sounds like maybe there are two 'firsts', and both articles just need some rewording to qualify exactly what happened in each? I'll have a look in Balch's book and see if that is any more specific, otherwise I will leave it to the experts. Derek Andrews (talk) 23:31, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hey guys, what is the "dispute" and how can we settle it?

Yes, it is all documented, in Martyn Farr's book, in Oliver Wells' book and in others.

As I remember, from what my father (Jack Sheppard) told me, and from what you can see in these books, the Swildon's dives were not successful. The Wookey Hole dives were first attempted using the old-fashioned brass helmet style diving equipment which is fed from the surface by a hose, and later by a self-contained oxygen rebreather apparatus.

Let me repeat what the basic Wikipedia article states, which you have "disputed":

Jack Sheppard (31 March 1909–14 July 2001), born John Arthur Sheppard in Lewisham, Kent (south east London), was a pioneer of cave diving in the United Kingdom and a founder of the Cave Diving Group together with Graham Balcombe.[1] Sheppard and Balcombe both worked for the Post Office as telecommunications engineers. They became rock climbing partners and while based in Bristol became interested in the caves of the Mendip Hills, particularly Swildon's Hole which they believed connected to Wookey Hole Caves. They proved this by putting dye into the water at Swildon's and seeing it emerge at Wookey. Various attempts were made to enter these underwater cave systems using shore-based pumped air diving suits, without much success. Sheppard then constructed his own dry suit, incorporating an oxygen rebreathing system, and used this to make the world's first cave dive in Swildon's Hole on 4 October 1936.[1] During his later life, Jack Sheppard was made Honorary President of the Cave Diving Group.

To my certain knowledge, any conflict the above statement has with the following paragraph indicates that the following paragraph is an incorrect summary of the real circumstances:

"In 1935, two Post Office engineers, Graham Balcombe and John Arthur "Jack" Sheppard penetrated 170 ft (52 m) into the cave, reaching "Chamber 7" using standard diving dress. The event was the first successful cave dive in Britain."

Remember that Jack Sheppard and Graham Balcombe worked as a team, or "dive buddies" as we would say today, so only one of them would ever have reached a goal while the other provided back-up. However, sorry, looking at the Wikipedia entry, which I believe I actually wrote, it does not look correct. I think the world's first cave dive was on 4 October 1936 in Wookey Hole, not Swildon's Hole. Let me check this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by John Arthur Sheppard (talk • contribs) 20:50, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is more of a conflict than a dispute. If you have the reference material to re-write both these articles, that would be great! Derek Andrews (talk) 10:22, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks to User:Tim P who pointed out [this reference] I have now edited both articles and removed the dispute tags.— Rod ^talk 20:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually the first dive was by Balcombe in 1934 at Swildon's Hole which was unsuccessful due to the depth of a water using what was basically a long snorkel tube and also lack of protective clothing. Work then moved to Wookey Hole where Standard Diving Dress was used to progress to Chamber 7 (the principal divers being Balcombe and Mrs. Penelope Powell). Sheppard was studying at the time and did not play a large part in the diving. Operations then returned to Swildon's Hole where Sheppard used a homemade drysuit and base fed air supply to pass Sump 1. All of this if summarised from Balcombe's memoirs (A Glimmering in Darkness). Duncan Price (talk) 15:50, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]