Talk:Jan de Hartog
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Topics for addition and expansion
- Early Houston: I want to include the events leading up to "The Hospital" and add a little more of the positive results that came from that book. Deadguy71 (talk) 18:15, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- War Orphans: I'd like more information and sources regarding the prelude to how he and his wife were involved with the Korean War Orphans prior to the adoption of his daughters. If I can document and source the events enough to tie his involvement to it, I want to include the story he used to tell about the "Sick hospital" Deadguy71 (talk) 18:15, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- More Pictures.. I'm trying to get the article up to a more stable state before getting Jan de Hartog's widow involved, but I'm sure she'll have a great picture I can use. I've seen some great ones that even include him as a "sea mouse" and suchlike that I hope she'll allow me to use. Failing that, I know I can get others from Christmas gatherings and suchlike, though they wouldn't be as nice. Deadguy71 (talk) 18:15, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- Dowsing: I want to expand upon his involvement with Dowsing. He taught me how to dowse properly. I actually ran into someone that had "heard of him" because of his dowsing, so perhaps his involvement is more documentable than I suspect. Deadguy71 (talk) 18:15, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- More Awards: He's always downplayed the award thing, but awards serve a purpose in calling attention towards someone who, for one reason or another, deserves that attention. I think it's inspiring, and useful to try and document everything we can find. If nothing else, I have pictures of his "Key to the City of Clearwater", though I doubt it'll be easy to get a history on it. He was even knighted, yet I can't find anything official on it.Deadguy71 (talk) 18:15, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
- in 1966 he was awarded the "Edmond Hustinxprijs voor toneelschrijvers" which translates from Dutch into the "Edmond Hustinx for playwrights." He was the first to be awarded this. ( I'm looking for references other than ( The dutch version of his wikipedia page) or ( Dutch wikipedia page for the award) M.Scott (talk) 23:36, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
- in 1900 he was awarded the "Jacobson-prijs" which translates from Dutch into the "Jacobson Prize". The Jacobson prize is a five-year Dutch literary prize awarded to older literature. (Again.. looking for a better reference than the Dutch wikipedia page for the awardM.Scott (talk) 23:44, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Concern regarding accuracy
Part of the problem with Jan de Hartog's history is that bits and pieces of it are the result of his storytelling, as opposed to what actually occurred. With (I beleive) the only exception being The Hospital his stories have fiction intertwined with the reality. This includes stories about the author's own life.
Wikipedia's official stance is that if it's referenced and cited from a secondary perspective, from a reliable source, it is eligible for inclusion in a Wikipedia article. The TRUTH or accuracy is not to be determined independant of the secondary sources.--M. Scott Deadguy71 (talk) 12:28, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
This article is no longer a start-class article by my estimation. I rated it (perhaps conservatively) to a "C" class article in the hopes that it would be re-evaluated by others. Perhaps it should be considered a "B" class article, but I hesitate to give it that without some outside input on the matter. I apologize if I have done this incorrectly, and request instruction on the matter if this is the case. M.Scott (talk) 17:26, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section., and are posted here for posterity. Following
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|If you actually *read* The Hospital, you will learn that the de Hartogs did NOT have to leave Houston, since the book did NOT lead to the hostility described in the article. In fact, Marjorie de Hartog, now 73 years old, still lives near me in Houston.
Also, Mrs. de Hartog is referred to as "non-Dutch" in the article. She is, more precisely, English-born. (Again, this fact is stated several times in The Hospital.)
If you have any doubt as to the veracity of these statements, just just call or e-mail the University of Houston M.D. Anderson Library (Special Collections department), where all of Mr. de Hartog's writings are kept.
==Responce to "lack of hostility" claim== Hello, I am not challenging your unsigned, anonymous, assertions here, but perhaps you may view the circumstances differently when you view them from a perspective of context.
Jan de Hartog was my uncle, and he and his wife were indeed "run out of town" after publishing "The Hospital" (your link directs to a film of the same name rather than the book). The anonymous threats were not made public due to their nature, but they indeed left town due to threats referencing the book and at minimum, an at least "perceived" hostility,
They returned to live in Houston quite a while later (1990), long after the hostility had subsided due to marked changes in the social climate there. It's obviously quite difficult to document anonymous threats of that nature, when the social climate of the time supported them. However, I'm sure that it can at minimum, be proven that they relocated to a farmhouse in Pennsylvania and lived there for several years as I have many fond memories of staying with them and their two adopted daughters (my cousins) at that location. They also relocated to Naples, Florida for awhile, but I can't be certain of how long they lived there.
Mention of the threats and hostility which caused him to leave Houston is also listed here in his biography, on the "Library of Texas Website": [http://www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/uhsc/00047/hsc-00047.html]
It's restated here, in the same "Special Collections Department" that you claim association with: [=collections/findingaid&id=290&q=&rootcontentid=30887 http://archon.lib.uh.edu/?p=collections/findingaid&id=290&q=&rootcontentid=30887]
This next source gives a better idea of the climate in which the book was first received. Hopefully, you understand that a controversial book that made Houston look VERY bad with regards to it's medical treatments of minorites was not "well received" in a climate that was, at the time, steeped in racism. [http://www.quaker.org/fqa/fager/sieber.html]
The epitaph "**gger-lover" was often thrown at him and his wife (and indeed the entire group of volunteers) on a regular basis. At that time, it was likely to imply violence when the message is found at your private residence. Coupled with claims of "muckraking" and other negative media attention, it is indeed, a hostile environment.
Thankfully, this kind of thing is not the norm there now, and my uncle is remembered in a more favorable light, but at the time, it was a different story. Then, the changes that ensued from his expose were enacted not because those already directly involved suddenly learned of the conditions for the first time, but because he pulled public attention to the conditions in such a way that they could not be ignored or pushed under a rug any longer.
So, as I have presented three sources and common rationality that back my claim, including the very source you asked readers to use to disprove my claim, I am hoping that you reconsider and withdraw your postion as it blocks the growth potential of this article. It's assumed you mean no harm by your statements, but in downplaying what he had to deal with in writing this book, it cheapens the value and effort of what he did.
In a nutshell, if the book was well received and met with universal acclaim from the parties involved, there never would have been any need for the book in the first place.
Indeed, just reading the book should indicate what it's reception would've been like, assuming you understand the social climate of the time. If you fail to retract your comments, I ask that you add sources which might document either: how they remained in Houston, per your claim, or sources that clearly indicate other reasons for why they left.
Thanks for your time,M.Scott Deadguy71 (talk) 04:33, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Last edited at 04:33, 7 July 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 19:32, 29 April 2016 (UTC)