Talk:Jay Rockefeller

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Untitled[edit]

I only hear this guy referred to as "John D Rockfeller IV" outside of this article. Shouldn't the article be titled as such? I don't know in what contexts he goes by "Jay," but it's not the way he's best known, so I think the title should be changed...

In his home state, he is always called 'Jay' and he is called that on a social level, too. I would strongly oppose any such title change. Youngamerican 14:10, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Oil stocks ?[edit]

Does anyone know if Senator Rockefeller owns oil stocks? His family got their $$ from Standard Oil, (which started Exxon, etc.). Is Rockefeller against the Iraq War because losing that war will keep the price of oil up?


Accusations and investigations of leaking[edit]

In July 2005, the Justice Dept. began an investigation concerning whether Senator Rockefeller is guilty of criminally leaking government secrets. [1] According to media personality Rush Limbaugh, Senator Rockefeller is also suspected of leaking NSA wiretap details in December 2005. [2]

After a nexis and google search, I'd like to propose the following for the last sentence of this section: There are unconfirmed rumors that Senator Rockefeller is also suspected of leaking NSA wiretap details in December 2005. Kschlot1 01:45, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Partisan rumors have no business being in an article, period. Articles that present extrapolation, speculation, and "future history" are original research and therefore inappropriate. Remember that Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. --Dragon695 02:55, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Senator Rockefeller's office just called to complain about this. There is no investigation. The source cited above (Newsmax) is not reliable. Unless and until this turns into a bigger story, a random suspicion thrown out by Rush Limbaugh does not seem notable to me either. Let's not include this stuff unless and until we have reliable mainstream sources.

(To be clear: Rush Limbaugh can be a valid source, but there is a question of importance here -- if he said something once on the radio, that hardly merits inclusion in this article. If he's on a crusade and other media take notice, then it becomes interesting enough to include.)

--Jimbo Wales 17:05, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Accusations and investigations of leaking removed[edit]

I have removed this partisan piece of hackery, and I would do the same if it were a Republican. Rush Limbaugh and NewsMax are about as NPOV as Al Franken and Mother Jones are. Until you can provide evidence from some other source (EVEN FOX NEWS) less POV-pushing then those two, the section must go. --Dragon695 02:49, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Agreed.--Jimbo Wales 17:06, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Please keep your insults off this page. There is no need to say "Moonie Times", etc. 70.84.56.166 03:37, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Someone should give a mention to S. 733, specifically sec. 14 (b) (2) and sec. 18 (2). Rockafeller is basically sponsoring a bill that would give the president unlimited power to sequester any information he wants and shut down the internet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.24.225.125 (talk) 20:05, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

2002 Trip to Syria, Jordan and Saudi Arabia[edit]

In 2002, Senator Rockefeller travelled to certain Middle East countries and revealed United States military intentions to the leaders of those countries. Rockefeller was quoted admitting this in November 2005 "I took a trip by myself in January of 2002 to Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Syria, and I told each of the heads of state that it was my view that George Bush had already made up his mind to go to war against Iraq". [3] As a ranking Senator, Rockefeller is privy to many internal military planning details on which he is able to form his personal views.

I've revised the source to point to the orignal Fox News sunday transcript, de-cropped the quote, and removed the bold emphisis. Otherwise, it would seem to be a fair thing (he did after all say it). However, it still could probably do with a rebuttle, if any, from the senator or his supporters. --Dragon695 07:20, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Rebuttal? As in a denial? What's there to "rebut"? 70.84.56.166 03:30, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

2002 Trip to Syria, Jordan and Saudi Arabia[edit]

In 2002, Senator Rockefeller travelled to certain Middle East countries and revealed United States military intentions to the leaders of those countries. Rockefeller was quoted admitting this in November 2005: "I took a trip by myself in January of 2002 to Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Syria, and I told each of the heads of state that it was my view that George Bush had already made up his mind to go to war against Iraq, that that was a predetermined set course which had taken shape shortly after 9/11." [4] As a ranking Senator, Rockefeller is privy to many internal military planning details on which he is able to form his personal views. Regarding this trip and Senator Rockefeller's communications with Syrian and other leaders; as these facts became known, there have been suggestions made that Rockefeller may have violated the Logan Act and could be subject to criminal prosecution. [5]

Explanation of my edits[edit]

Here's what the anon ip number wanted this paragraph to say: "In 2002, Senator Rockefeller travelled to several Middle East countries and revealed United States military intentions to the leaders of those countries. Rockefeller was quoted admitting this in November 2005: "I took a trip by myself in January of 2002 to Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Syria, and I told each of the heads of state that it was my view that George Bush had already made up his mind to go to war against Iraq, that that was a predetermined set course which had taken shape shortly after 9/11." [1] As a ranking Senator, Rockefeller is privy to many internal military planning details on which he is able to form his personal views. Regarding this trip and Senator Rockefeller's communications with Syrian and other leaders; as these facts became known, there have been suggestions made that Rockefeller may have violated the Logan Act and could be subject to criminal prosecution. [2]"

This is a highly POV presentation, to say the least. The word "revealed" suggests what is later asserted... something which is completely unsupported by the references... that Sen. Rockefeller was privy to secret information which he revealed. Danny version notes that he made the trip, had the discussions, but does not prejudge whether the discussion did or did not reveal secrets -- we are not in a position to judge, nor in a position to suggest, one way or the other.

Even including the incident at all, in an article of this length, is fairly POV, but the solution to that is to make the article better and longer overall. I hardly think that the man's entire career is best summed up with this reference to a fairly minor event in that career.--Jimbo Wales 21:17, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

With all due respect Jimbo, your personal feelings about Rocky are not ipso facto NPOV. As I see it, you are letting your emotions cloud your vision here. Please read all the above, including the conjectures about Rocky's family oil ties and see if there is a drive to poison the well here. Indeed, there is not. Rather, the effort is to be sure that people understand the context. 1) A high ranking Senator 2) took it upon himself to address foreign leaders 3) while at the same time, being in personal knowledge of various USA intentions 4) as a result of sitting on very important Senate committees 5) yet he went ahead and did it anyway.
Jimbo, 1st you delete the Limbaugh assertion. Now you sweep the Logan act allegation under the rug. By your own admission you've already reacted to complaints from Rocky's office. That being the case, you have chosen sides in a partisan battle. Rocky's staff wants this info excised because it's true and it makes him look bad - and you are helping them.
All that said, since you are indeed the grand-poobah around here, you are entitled to deference and in this case, as best as reasonably possibly, you shall have it. Even so, mark my words: When more facts about these blabbings and leaks finally come out, you will come to see that your intercession here was ethically wrong and not only that, these allegations against Rocky are true. Loose lips do indeed sink ships and Rocky is a blabbermouth.
Now as to whether he blabs out of senility, spite, avarice, hubris or a simply a stupid understanding of current world events, I'll leave that to the history books to decide. In the meantime, I'll do my best to respect your wishes here - even though you are both ethically and factually wrong on this point. PS: Love the wiki - this is truly a paradigm shifting happening. Thanks for all you've done so far - keep up the good work. 192.168.227.195 09:30, 25 February 2006 (UTC)(Actually posted by user:70.85.195.227)

Section title[edit]

According to Rocky "I took a trip by myself in January of 2002 to Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Syria..." he went to 3 specific countries. There is no reason to obfuscate that fact and/or infer he went elsewhere. He went to those countries, stop deleting this true NPOV section title.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.98.130.204 (talkcontribs)

any relations to Nicholas Rockefeller[edit]

<removed copyvio of http://www.abanet.org/buslaw/newsletter/0052/materials/pp1.pdf>

Cybersecurity Act of 2009[edit]

Cybersecurity Act of 2009 is mentioned in this article, but it's also notable enough to deserve its own article. I can't create it because I have been topic banned from political articles. Grundle2600 (talk) 03:57, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Jamie Rockefeller Article Removed?[edit]

I couldn't help but notice that the page for Jay's eldest son John Davison "Jamie" Rockefeller V seems to have gone. I recall there once being an article for Jamie, what happened to it? If it isn't gone, then why does the "John D. Rockefeller V" link redirect me to John D. "Jay" Rockefeller IV's page?? Thesomeone987 (talk) 03:53, 26 February 2012 (UTC)Thesomeone987

There are probably discussion pages if you dig around, but I would assume that John V was found not to be notable in his own right and a decision was made to link back to his father. Bitmapped (talk) 04:20, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

January 15, 1985[edit]

Why did Rockefeller join the Senate 12 days later than the other senators who were elected in 1984? See Seniority in the United States Senate (which offers no explanation). KarlFrei (talk) 15:58, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

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