Talk:Jeff Butler (football manager)

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A fact from Jeff Butler (football manager) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 11 May 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Jeff Butler was sacked as head coach of the South Africa national football team after it was discovered that he had passed off the playing career of another Geoff Butler as his own?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/May. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Jeff Butler (football manager).

Wikipedia

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 12:55, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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... that football coach Jeff Butler was sacked as South Africa head coach after it was discovered that he had falsified his CV with the playing career of another Geoff Butler? Source: "Born in England, Butler was regarded as one of the most successful foreign coaches in South Africa and also coached Bafana Bafana in 1992, but was fired over issues of falsifying his CV." Mlotha, Sipho (3 October 2019). "Fake coaches in South Africa PSL started with Jeff Butler, claims Cavin Johnson". Kick Off. Retrieved 13 April 2020. "Jeff Butler... had been travelling around the continent claiming as his own the English playing career of another man, a former player with Norwich City also named Jeff Butler" "Jeff one of the best coaches - Bricks Mudau". thobelafm.co.za. 26 April 2017. Retrieved 12 April 2020.
- ALT1:... that football coach Jeff Butler won eight league titles in Africa? Tembo, Benedict (18 June 2017). "Nkana's sacking of Saileti, Kampamba unjustified – Zambia Daily Mail". Zambia Daily Mail. Retrieved 12 April 2020.Barron, Chris (30 April 2017). "Obituary: Jeff Butler, hard taskmaster who forged SA's iconic soccer team". TimesLIVE. Retrieved 12 April 2020.

Reviewed: MacGillycuddy's Reeks

5x expanded by EchetusXe (talk). Self-nominated at 15:54, 13 April 2020 (UTC).[reply]

Y Article is long enough (3196 characters), more than 5x expanded according to DYKcheck tool, nominated in time (expansion started 12 April, nominated 13 April), and apart from one issue highlighted below, article is within policy. Copyvio tool picks up a match, but that is a quote in the article, so no actual copyvios
? One question on the article: it says his place of death is England. However, the text says he moved to Spain, and the source [1] doesn't mention where he died (Spain, England or elsewhere) at all. Do you have a source for him dying in England?
Y ALT0 is short enough, interesting, well-cited, and I believe in policy. There is a hook rules that "Articles and hooks that focus unduly on negative aspects of living individuals should be avoided.", however as Butler is no longer living, that rule does not apply. And it's certainly the most interesting hook from the article
Y ALT1 is also short enough, well-cited and reasonably interesting, though I far prefer ALT0
Y QPQ done
Overall this nomination is fine apart from the date of death issue. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:48, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As luck would have it, it was in the first source I checked on the article. Cheers.Echetus Xe 16:55, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good to go now that that has been clarified. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:57, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I came by to promote this, but then I realized that 50 years of his life, from his birth to his coaching career, are unaccounted for. Yoninah (talk) 22:53, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

He passed off Geoff Butler's career as his own. Geoff Butler retired as a player in 1982 and Jeff Butler's first recorded coaching job was in Zambia in 1982. By the time his lie was discovered in 1992 he had built up a successful ten year career as a coach in Africa. The lie was discovered in 1992 and cost him the South Africa national team job when a reporter did a bit of research on his "playing career" for a write up. By this time the coaching success he had actually achieved on the continent was enough for him to continue to find work. I don't believe Jeff Butler ever admitted what he was actually doing before the 80s, but he never played professional football in England. an obituary mentioned he was married for 52 years, so we can include the fact that he got married during this time.Echetus Xe 04:43, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've made that clear in the article now.Echetus Xe 04:48, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@EchetusXe: thank you, that's much better. Now, about the hook: the hook wording is copying the source, but it doesn't say anything about a CV in the article. Could we word the hook this way:
ALT0a: ... that Jeff Butler was sacked as South Africa head coach after it was discovered that he had passed off the playing career of another Geoff Butler as his own? Yoninah (talk) 17:15, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah that sounds great, I don't think there's a better way of wording it really.Echetus Xe 12:49, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Restoring tick for ALT0a per Joseph2302's review. Yoninah (talk) 12:54, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Biographical details

Do you realize that 50 years of his life, from his birth to his coaching career, are unaccounted for? Yoninah (talk) 22:51, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]