Talk:John Nelson Goulty

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Since there's an outstanding request for pictures on here; I've sent messages to some of the photographers on Flickr who have pictures[1] of the bus[2], asking them to considering changing the licence to CC-BY/CC-BY-SA to allow their use on Wikipedia. As for a picture (an etching) of Nelson himself, these will all be long out-of-copyright; the question is where to locate an original one. There is this one[3], but because it's small (276×400) it's not quite possible to read the library name confidently. It possibly says "H. V. Public Library Print Department". Does anyone else have a lead, or is local enough to try sourcing an image? —Sladen (talk) 13:05, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

If you get no joy with the bus pic licences, I'll have a look through my collection to see if I've photographed it (I have a large collection of B&H bus photos, and can upload to Commons as PD if I find one). Otherwise I'll keep an eye out for it when I'm wandering round the city; I always take my camera with me! Regarding the etching, I'd be tempted to contact B&H Bus Company to see where they found the etching image. I think they have a publicity department which handles communications on non-operational matters. the e-mail comms "at" might be best. Alternatively, I could ask them at their Facebook page – they're normally very good at replying to all sorts of queries. Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 13:29, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
Also turned up:
  • Grant, Andy L. (2 August 2002). "[SXP] GOULTY Family". I believe the chapel still exists as the Elim Free Church, but there is in Brighton Art Gallery a more contemporaneous print of around 1825, engraved by W. Alexander. 
Although it's not clear from that whether the engraving in Brighton Museum & Art Gallery would be the church building, or the individual. I'll try the bus company too per your suggestion. —Sladen (talk) 13:44, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
Sent feelers out to both B-H Buses PR and Katie Hobbs (Curator, B-H Council). —Sladen (talk) 14:44, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
Reply from Katie Hobbs, Curator at Brighton "…we do indeed have two engravings of Rev John Nelson Goulty in our Fine Art print collection. They have the identification numbers FA203452 and FA203451."Sladen (talk) 18:33, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Susan/Barrie Kaye t/a K Books Ltd in York appear to have a c.1830 print available from the engraving. Listed on Abebooks as being 25GBP.[4] No answer by telephone on the given 01759 number. —Sladen (talk) 15:41, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
I finally got through to Susan and Barrie and they were very helpful and agreed to help with the Image:reverend-john-nelson-goulty-engraving-1830.jpg scan for Wikipedia at cost price! For future note they have collection of (if I understand correctly) ~80k similar rare missionary prints/portraits and suggest that it would be certainly worth asking for their help again in the future (searching via Abebooks). —Sladen (talk) 16:44, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
Are we allowed to buy pictures if they are meant to be copyright-free on Wikimedia Commons? Or would we be using another license? Who would pay?Zigzig20s (talk) 00:03, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
The price paid (or not paid) for obtaining a suitable image has nothing to do with its legal freeness. In this case the scan is a reproduction of an engraving that is 180+ years old—beyond the upper limit of human life expectancy plus 70 years—meaning it is out-of-copyright. This is shown on commons:Image:Reverend-john-nelson-goulty-engraving-1830.jpg#Licensing. —Sladen (talk) 00:17, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Who pays?Zigzig20s (talk) 00:38, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
In this case, for example, (I) had offered to covered the scanning. Over the years it has been possible to purchase various material (generally found via eBay) as citation sources—that has been my personal contribution to building this great libre knowledge resource that we now have, and the same goes for the time, phonecalls, emails to locate and negotiate access or rights to materials, or setting off with a specific shot in mind (sometimes one has to wait a week for five-second window of opportunity). I believe many surveys for OpenStreetMap and Wikipedia editors do the same. When a rare complete set of Channel Tunnel internal staff magazines came up for sale on one occasion last year I did also apply for a UK Project Grant to reimburse the costs—I guess one could still say I "lost" money as one has to be a member first! Everyone contributes in a myriad of ways, and their own personal manner depending upon their motivations and as circumstances allow. —Sladen (talk) 01:38, 18 December 2014 (UTC) PS. In the end Barry and Susan Kaye of K Books Ltd wrote back this morning with some additional information, and that there would be no need to cover for the scanning as they were very happy the engraving could be used, and that crediting them for their assistance was "most thoughtful … and much appreciated".