Talk:Juan Ponce de León

Parody?

Is this relevant? I say take it out, maybe keep it as a "see also". Also, it's a potential spoiler. HereToHelp 23:47, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

• • it's been sitting there for years. I can't find an article of that title or a journal of that name. Deleted. Glendoremus (talk) 17:10, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Discovery of Florida

sorry pleas do nto bannnne mee

Add a profile's picture

There are a lot of images of Ponce de Leon. Can anyone put a photo, please? Choose one of them:

• File:Kskm,dsc,xc.
• File:RUIDIAZ(1893) 1.083 JUskskals.jpg
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Semi-protected edit request on 2 May 2022

May you pls put source 174.76.113.101 (talk) 14:47, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 15:02, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Contested edits

I had edited some of the details in this listing based on research that I had done for my self-published book, "The Maps That Change Florida's History." All of my edits were removed because Wikipedia does not allow self-published books as reliable sources. The actual "sources" of my information were two rare maps that were contained in another "self-published" book, "Die Beiden Altesten General-Karten von Amerika Ausgefürt den Jahren 1527 und 1529" by Johann Georg Kohl, published in 1860. Dr. Kohl's book, and the two large maps that are folded and inserted in the book, are referenced by most cartographers and many historians studying the Spanish colonization of the New World in the early 16th century. The book is very, very rare. I cannot find evidence that the maps contained in it have ever before been referenced by a Florida or Spanish-Colonial historian. There was, at the time I acquired it, only one copy of this book available for sale in the world. I bought it for $3,000 and had the maps that it contained scanned at high resolution for further study. (I also provided hi res scans to the University of Florida, which has posted them online at their George A. Smathers Digital Collection.) After a year of intensive study, I concluded that hi res enlargements of these two maps have not before been available to historians or researchers. The maps contain latitude scales, which, when compared to GPS locations of various toponyms on the map, are remarkably accurate. I also found that the Bahia de Juan Ponce appears for the first time on these maps, drawn about 6 years after Ponce de Leon's failed settlement expedition of 1521. I also noticed that other toponyms on the map, south of the Bahia de Juan Ponce, included the Rio de Canoas and the Rio de la Paz. Being a Floridian, I recognized that the Peace (Paz) River flows into Charlotte Harbor. I also noted that in the chronicles of Juan Ponce's original 1513 visit, he had attempted to establish a Peace (Rio de la Paz?) with Chief Carlos, but had been betrayed when the Spaniards arrived for a subsequent meeting and were ambushed by many Indians in canoes (Rio de Canoas?). The book is important because it displays on the cover and within, maps that have not been enlarged and published before. It also includes an enormous amount of research (particularly concerning the marine environment of La Florida in the early 1500's) that has not been published before. My book was reviewed by noted historians. Their reviews are printed on the back cover of the book and reproduced below. Does it advance scholarship on the subject of Juan Ponce de León if my book, conclusions, and references cannot make it to Wikipedia, while other far less documented conclusions are included in this listing?

MacDougald demonstrates that the harbor the Spanish called the Bahia de Juan Ponce is certainly Tampa Bay. Why is that important? It equates Juan Ponce de León with Tampa Bay. MacDougald’s recognition that the Bay of Juan Ponce is Tampa Bay suggests that rather than Charlotte Harbor being the location of Ponce’s 1521 attempted settlement it was instead Tampa Bay. I am especially intrigued by the suggestion that Ponce de León’s 1521 attempted settlement on Florida’s Gulf coast was on Old Tampa Bay among the Tocobaga Indians, exactly where Narváez found himself seven years later.

       - Jerald T. Milanich, Ph.D., Curator Emeritus of Archaeology at the Florida Museum of Natural History at the University of Florida and author of Florida Indians and the Invasion from Europe.

In his second foray into the subject of early Spanish voyages to Florida’s west coast, James MacDougald once again presents the results of his meticulous, well-documented research and analysis. In The Maps That Change Florida’s History he tells how the toponym “Bay of Juan Ponce” at what is today named “Old Tampa Bay” prompted him to examine large-scale detailed official maps of the period for evidence that Ponce’s 1521 settlement attempt took place on its shores. Throughout, MacDougald combines his familiarity with the area, his extensive sailing experience, and his findings to provide a cohesive and persuasive argument for locating Ponce’s 1521 settlement on the shores of Old Tampa Bay. A real contribution to the study of early Spanish expeditions to Florida and a “must-read” for anyone interested in the field.

     - Martin A. Favata, Professor Emeritus, University of Tampa

As we approach the quincentennial of Juan Ponce de Leon’s attempt to establish the first Spanish settlement in Florida, MacDougald presents new insight and documentation regarding the settlement’s location. Charlotte Harbor in Southwest Florida has long been thought to be the settlement’s most likely site. Combining his personal knowledge of the Gulf waterways and nautical navigation skills, penetrating reexamination of the historical record, and rediscovery of an historic map, MacDougald builds a strong case for location of this first settlement endeavor on Tampa Bay. The Maps That Change Florida’s History represents an important new contribution to our understanding of the Spanish Entrada in Florida.

      - Will Michaels, Ph.D., Retired Director of the St. Petersburg Museum of History, and author of The Making of St. Petersburg.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jim MacDougald (talk • contribs) 19:15, 7 June 2022 (UTC) 

I've added a header and will ping Carlstak, since they were involved in this (see also discussion at this Teahouse thread). 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:13, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Well, you've signed this Jim MacDougald, so I'm going to assume that's who you are. I don't see anything in our reliable sources policy that says citing reliable sources in your work makes it reliable by extension. Your book is self-published, which anyone with the cash can do, and books published by vanity presses are not subject to the more rigorous standards of editorial oversight and fact-checking implemented by established publishing houses with large staffs. Our policy says:

"Anyone can create a personal web page or publish their own book and claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published sources are largely not acceptable. Self-published books... are examples of self-published media. Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications."

As far as I can see, your cites of favorable comments by experts are not a substitute for "work in the relevant field that has previously been published by reliable, independent publications". Your case would be more convincing if you were able to cite works of yours that meet our criterion. Without them, your attempt to insert the material comes off as marketing to sell your book. Carlstak (talk) 21:02, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Juan Ponce de Leon - Correction: Spanish West Indies

in section" First Voyage to Florida, 8th paragraph, it says: it would soon become the primary route for eastbound ships leaving the Spanish Indies bound for Europe Correction: ships leaving the Spanish West Indies, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_West_Indies) WeatherOrg (talk) 14:44, 14 October 2022 WeatherOrg (talk) 18:15, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

 Fixed Thanks for pointing this out. I didn't wikilink it because it has already been linked at first instance. Carlstak (talk) 12:12, 21 October 2022 (UTC)