Talk:Juan Ponce de León/Archive 1

Archive 1

Ponce de Leon's colony

The sources I used state the site is uncertain, but probably around the Caloosahatchee River or Charlotte Harbot, both of which are well north of Cape Romano. What is the source for Cape Romano as the site of the attempted colony? -- Dalbury^(Talk) 01:42, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Sanibel Island mention

He sailed back south to [[Havana]], and then up to Florida again, stopping at the Bay of ''Chequesta''
 ([[Biscayne Bay]]) before returning to Puerto Rico.

was changed to

He sailed back south to [[Havána]], and then up to Florida again, stopping at the Bay of ''Chequesta''
 ([[Biscayne Bay]]) or to what is now '''''Sanibel Island''''' before returning to Puerto Rico.

without adding a citation or a source.So the addition of sanibel island will stay on the talk page for now unless the user adds the source of this statement, thus it will return in the article. Lincher 15:37, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

A complication is that there are a lot of blogs and other rather unscholarly pages on the web that state all kinds of otherwise unverifiable things about the early exploration of Florida. Web sources need to be carefully assessed for reliability when conflicting accounts abound. The primary sources give vague descriptions and unreliable coordinates for geographic features, and have have been interpreted by many people with various levels of expertise and objectivity. The source for the account as it now stands is a tertiary source (another on-line encyclopedia). The use of tertiary sources in Wikipedia is discouraged, but it was the best I could find when I added it. We really need to find some good secondary sources that meet WP:RS, and use them to build the best account we can in this article. The best sources, of course, will carefully discuss and assess the various possible interpretations of the primary material. -- Donald Albury 17:07, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the answer. As it stands, you agree with my point that the aforementioned change wasn't sourced and thus doesn't qualify for the article or else the article becomes POV or unsourced or WP:OR. Lincher 20:49, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Governor table

I've move this here because it greatly disagrees with the sources I see, which make de Leon the first Governor of Puerto Rico, followed by Diego Columbus. So, I want to see the references for the version in the table. -- Dalbury^(Talk) 03:05, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

I put it back, but removed Pinzón. It now agrees with List of Governors of Puerto Rico. quadpus 00:07, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

The Fountain of Youth

The entry is mistaken:

Source 1: Samuel Eliot Morison (Southern Voyages, p. 504) cites Peter Martyr, in De Orbe Novo, Decada 2, Book X, writes (Leonardo Olschki translation)that their existed on an island called Boiuca or Bimini, "a spring of running water of such marvellous virtue, that the water therof being drunk, perhaps with some diet, makes old men young again." "It was said, moreover, that on a neighbouring shore might be found a river gifted with the same beneficient property."

Source 2: Las Casas does not mention the search for the fountain of youth, but in note 8, chapter 20 of the Alianza Editorial, Fray Bartolomé de Las Casas: Obras Completas 1994, the editors note that (my translation) "the Indians told him that there [Bimini] he would find the fountain of youth or rejuvenation by only bathing in the river." The editors add that what is doubtful is Escalante Fontañeda's report that Ponce De León was looking for the River Jordan.

I suggest a rewriting of this entry, since it is misleading. By the way, Ferdinand had a great interest in rejuvenation since his French chef gave him aphrodesiacs to help satisfy the demands of his young wife Germaine de Foìx. Richard Crosfield.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Richard crosfield (talk • contribs) 10:23, 9 March 2007 (UTC).

How is it misleading? What do you propose to say? Note that the story of Ponce de Leon searching for the Fountain of Youth is not known to have appeared before the memoirs of Hernando de Escalante Fontaneda, who apparantly got the story from the Indians in Florida during his captivity. -- Donald Albury 12:28, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it's misleading at all. It's accurate as it is; the story was first recorded by Fontaneda, whose account informed Peter Martyr. That's all there is to it, really.--Cúchullain ^t/c 22:23, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

The source is Peter Martyr, who got his information directly from Ponce de León, and Decadas precedes Escalante's memoirs by many years. So the fountain of youth legend has a much earlier source than is acknowledged in the text. ññññ Richard Crosfield.

I was mistaken. It was Antonio de Herrera y Tordesillas, not Peter Martyr, who was informed by Fontaneda. Peter Martyr does describe the Fountain of Youth long before Fontaneda, but he did not claim Ponce de Leon was looking for it. The first one to do so was, as far as I know, Fontaneda (though he didn't believe it); this is what the article says. Even before Peter Martyr there were stories of the Fountain of Youth, for instance in the Persian rescension of the Alexander Romance, but these don't need to be included here, since they have nothing to do with Ponce de Leon.--Cúchullain ^t/c 17:41, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

There are at least three good early sources that support the notion that Ponce de León, in 1513, did indeed search for the Fountain of Youth on an island in the Indies.

1.Peter Martyr d'Anghiera (Decadas, 1516) refers to an island north of Cuba named Boiuca or Bimini where there was ‘a spring of running water of such marvellous virtue, that the water thereof being drunk, perhaps with some diet, makes old men young again’. We know from the royal patent (23 February 1512) authorizing Ponce’s expedition that he was searching for the island of Bimini, and since Peter Martyr knew Ponce de León, it is reasonable to believe that he was his source of information.

2.Gonzalo Fernández de Oviedo (La Historia general y natural de las Indias , Book 16, written between 1515 and 1535) and López de Gómara ( Historia General de la Indias, p. 72 in the Obras Maestras edition, written between 1540 and 1551) also refer to Ponce de León’s search for an island where there was a fountain ‘that turned old men young.’

As a result, it is misleading to state that the story of the Fountain of Youth began with Hernando de Escalente, who wrote his memoirs in 1575, which is long after Martyr, Oviedo and Gómara. [[Samuel Eliot Morison]], in The Southern Voyages 1492-1616, does not doubt that Ponce de León was searching for the Fountain of Youth and I see no sources to support the theory that he wasn’t. Or am I missing something? ññññ Richard Crosfield.

If Oviedo and Gomara really say that, then the information about Fontaneda being the first to mention the legend is wrong, and I would be extremely disappointed in myself for allowing it to be included for so long. The Peter Martyr connection is still speculative; he doesn't name his source as Ponce de Leon, and the fact that Ponce de Leon was looking for Bimini doesn't mean he was looking for the rejuvinating water per se. I'll do some digging on my own, if you want to add the Oviedo and Gomara info in (with sources) here and at Fountain of Youth, go ahead.--Cúchullain ^t/c 01:21, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I have edited this page but can't get my references to stick: They are 1. López de Gómara, Historia General de las Indias, segunda parte. 2. Gonzalo Fernández de Oviedo, Historia General y Natural de las Indias, libro 16, cap. XI. 3. Pedro Mártir de Angleria, Decadas de Nuevo Mundo, Dec 2, cap. X. 4. Juan Gil, Mitos u Utopías del Descubrimiento, 1. Colón y su tiempo, cap. IX, Madrid 1989. Can you help?--Richard crosfield 17:09, 28 March 2007 (UTC)Richard Crosfield.

I incorporated the info, but it would be best if we could name which editions we're using, page numbers, and ISBNs if available. I'm also not 100% sure I separated your references out correctly, please fix them if need be, or tell me what I have wrong. I also added your info to Fountain of Youth.

I'm wondering, though, if the article we had previously used as a source was mistaken in that Fontaneda was the first to connect the fountain of youth to Florida, not de Leon? Do any of the pre-Fontaneda sources make such a connection, or do they only place the fountain in Bimini?--Cúchullain ^t/c 22:27, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Both Oviedo and Gómera specifically state that Ponce de León was searching for Bimini (called Boyuca by Gómera), an island where he could find a spring that turned old men young. Ponce searched for Bimini (supposedly a Taino name) and found an 'island' he called Florida. Later, on the same voyage, he sailed west and discovered another 'island' he called Bimini. This was almost certainly the northern shore of Yucatan. Oviedo, of course, was in the Indies with Ponce de León and almost certainly heard the news of the magical spring from him. Juan Gil, a leading contemporary Spanish historian on Columbus and the early conquistadores, assumes that it was Ponce de León who told Peter Martyr, and the Court and everyone he spoke to, about this fountain of youth. Certainly Peter Martyr, who was Ponce's contemporary and knew him, wrote about the excitement this then caused in Spain. Also, a Dr. Chanca wrote in 1514 a treatise explaining that medically it was not possible to rejuvenate oneself but that there were waters that could ameliorate certain complaints. Dr Chanca's wrote his treatise in direct response to Ponce's news. The references for Oviedo and Juan Gil (ISBN 84-206-2577.9 (T.I)) are very specific and refer to the Spanish text. In the case of Gomera, the exact reference is Edición Obras Maestras, López de Gómera, Historia General de las Indias, vol.1, p 72., Barcelona 1965 (no ISBN in my copy). It would be interesting to discover who first raised the possibility that Ponce wasn't looking for a rejuvenating spring. Richard Crosfield, 12 April 2007.

Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Assessment BITches (So tempted to put down "living=yes"...)he was super cool

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 01:17, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Any Comments About This As a Reference?

• Boldly Onward
  • Table of Contents
  • Commentary by Reviewers

David Hager, M.D. 03:04, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

If someone reads the book and finds something useful, they can include it in the article with proper citations, but per our guideline at Wikipedia:Conflict of interest, it would be better if you first discussed here on the talk page any specific additions citing your own books that you want to make. In any case, you need to avoid any appearance of trying to promote your own books through Wikipedia. -- Donald Albury 03:22, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

It's not my book. None are for sale. Just been trying to figure out how to integrate many years of Lin's research and writing into the Wikipedia project. At age 87, he won't be doing it himself. My time is limited. I hope someone might find this work to be useful.--David Hager, M.D. 03:53, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

You can cite any reliable published source to support material in an article. Our goal is to attribute everything in Wikipedia to reliable sources. See Wikipedia:Citing sources for the mechanics of that. Inserting links to web pages about books smacks of commercial promotion, which is not compatible with Wikipedia's purpose. -- Donald Albury 10:56, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Kristina loves... beer —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.60.239.135 (talk) 15:36, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Question about height

Does anyone know how tall de Leon was, especially in comparison to the natives at the time? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.146.75.60 (talk) 02:19, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Date of birth change

Please provide an explanation to change his birthdate from 1462 to 1460 or else the changes will be reverted. Lincher 18:18, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

His correct birthdate is 1460. See here, for example. -- Donald Albury 20:57, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I know, was just looking at the last modification, I made a mistake in changing it, thus the 2nd revert. Thanks for watching the page too. Lincher 00:25, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, now it's gone to "c. 1471". Yet most sources still seem to say 1460. A few even pin it down to 8 April 1460, but that seems to be a confusion with the date he left Florida. I'm changing it to 1460. -- JackofOz (talk) 07:16, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

So is it 1460 (as in the side bar) or 1474 (as in the first line of the article)? Brainiacitguy 05:07, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, it's 1474--I didn't catch the sidebar. Glendoremus (talk) 15:21, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Birth cat doesn't match birth date

If the latest research says 1474, but the birth cat still uses the old 1460 date; should the cat be changed? normally it would be aligned with the birth year or birthdate.--FeanorStar7 (talk) 12:48, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Good catch. Fixed. Thanks.Glendoremus (talk) 04:39, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Recent edit in Juan_Ponce_de_León#Last_voyage_to_Florida

An editor added the sentence:

Historians speculate that, due to his failure to find mythical fountain of youth, Ponce de León was eventually forced to die.

I restored the original sentence. The reference attached to the revised sentence is Find a Grave, which is not generally accepted as a reliable source. Additionally, the source doesn't even support the sentence.--SPhilbrickT 11:28, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Phonetic transcription

The phonetic transcription /hwan.ˌponʒɛ.dɛ.lɛ.'on/ belongs only to central varieties of Andalusian Spanish, being uncommon to the rest of varieties of Spanish language including both those spoken in Castille (where Ponce de León was born), and in latin america. The vowel /ɛ/ occurs exclusively in the provinces of Córdoba (mainly), Jaén and Sevilla, while consonantic sound /h/ is believed to have locally evolved from general spanish's pronunce of "J" (IPA noted /x/) in Andalusia. /ʒ/ doesn't exist in northern half of Spain (including Valladolid), where it is believed to have evolved to modern Z pronunciation (IPA: /θ/) around the 17th century. Despite it's not currently said in northern Spain, they did so in historical times, so I'm not complaining about that particular case. Therefore, I proppose /xwan.'ponʒe.de.le.'on/ that would be a common solution to both historical castillian Spanish and modern-day spanish of the Americas. In current castillian, it would be /xwan.'ponθe.de.le.'on/. --Lascorz (talk) 20:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I added the traditional English transcription [ˈpɒns də ˈliən] http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ponce+de+leon Turesable (talk) 20:18, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Meaning

Anyone know what Ponce de leon might mean? Could be important to add that too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.120.106.228 (talk) 05:02, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

It is his family name - the whole thing is. It's like asking what Washington means. Yes we can tease out the history of the surname (Ponce is just a form of the Languedoc-area given name Pons, and was first used in this family to show that the bearer was son of someone named Pons (like Sanchez means son of Sancho), while de Leon means 'of Leon', added to commemorate the fact that someone's mother was the illegitimate daughter of the king of Leon) but it all happened 250 years earlier and is no more relevant to a biography of the man than in an article on Winston Churchill explaining that the surname originally meant 'the hill where the church is'. Agricolae (talk) 23:08, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Melbourne Beach Island is NOT called Ponce de Leon Island

This article states that the island that Melbourne Beach resides on is called Ponce de Leon Island, IT IS NOT. Currently there is no separate map name for this barrier island. On ancient maps from the 1600's it is called Barra de Ays along the Roi de Ays (the original name for the Indian River, named for the ancient 3000 year old local native culture of the Ays(or Ais - pronounced Ah-ee's)driven to extinction by the beginning of the 1700's. Only 3 (Melbourne Beach, Melbourne, Indialantic) of the 8 voting communities that reside on the section of island in question have voted to support the proposal to name it Ponce de Leon. The other 5 have refused to hear it (Sebastian tax district & Indian Harbor Beach) or voted NO or did not pass the resolution or rescinded support for the resolution (Cocoa Beach, Satellite Beach, Cape Canaveral). The Ponce de Leon naming is being proposed by individuals claiming to be promoting it as part of the 500 year celebration of the naming of Florida and is being resisted by the majority of communities that reside on the island in question.

The number of communities on the island that do not support the Ponce de Leon naming is now 6 out of 8, as the town of Indiatlantic rescinded their support for the naming also.

Ricksbigart (talk) 10:11, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

I've removed the name, as it has not been adopted, and may never be adopted. -- Donald Albury 11:29, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

References

File:Duque de Cadiz.jpeg Nominated for Deletion

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Ancestors/descendants

Isn't the article mixing up the ancestors with the descendants? As far as I know, the ancestors of an individual are its parents, it grandparents, its grandgrandparents, its grandgrand...parents and the descendants are its children, its grandchildren, its grandgrandchildren, etc. -- Petru Dimitriu (talk) 19:11, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

The Ancestors table looks like it is the family tree of the Juan Ponce de León who is the subject of this table. The Descendants table looks like it is the family tree of a Juan Ponce de León who was the grandson of the subject of this article. Only two of the people named in that tree are descendants of the subject of this article. I have hidden the Descendants table pending discussion here. -- Donald Albury 20:58, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

The Ponce de León family have its roots on Ponce Vélaz, nobleman from Leon, who was descended from the Vela Family, and thus, from the Kings of Vascony. I don't know who wrote that family section, but it's just clueless. Pietje96 (talk) 10:44, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Controversy Section?

I think there should be a section regarding controversy of Ponce's discovering Florida and his treatment of indigenous people. Anybody else agree with this?--Ourhistory153 (talk) 13:59, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Criticism advocates integrating criticisms or negative material on a subject into the article rather than having a separate "Criticism" section. While that is an essay, and not binding on anyone, I think it is good advice. His treatment of the Tainos of Hispaniola and Puerto Rico should be covered in those sections of the article. I don't know how much Bartolomé de las Casas says specifically about Ponce de León's conduct. I don't see las Casas mentioned in the article, although I would think he is cited in some of the sources used. Las Casas is certainly a major primary source on the treatment of the Tainos by the Spanish. -- Donald Albury 18:40, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Possibility of a Legacy section

I've added several citations onto the page recently, and I was also wondering if there could be a legacy section added onto the page. This article isn't far away from getting a GA nomination, but a legacy section wouldn't hurt, if needed. I don't have the sources for such an addition at the moment, however. Is there anyone who worked/is willing to work on this page that could add a legacy section if it's needed for this to get a GA nomination. It would be nice to see one of the notable Castilian/Spanish explorers/conquistadors (Columbus, Cortes, De Leon, Soto, Pizarro, Balboa, etc.) get a GA nomination, and this article is probably the closest, if not Hernando de Soto's. Thanks for reading!LeftAire (talk) 06:36, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

What do you envision being in a Legacy section? Something like a Juan Ponce de León in culture section? I see 25 or more articles in WP about schools, streets, towns, hotels, and geographic features named after this de León, and I suspect such a Legacy section could turn into a trivia list that would be a magnet for mentions of other schools, streets, etc. that haven't made it into WP yet. We could also get a listing of every book, movie and song that includes a mention of Ponce de León. I do think a section on the impact of the image of Juan Ponce de León on American culture and on Puerto Rican culture (I gather that his historical image in Puerto Rico may be different from his image in the US), with good sources, would be a great addition to the article. BTW, are you aware of this proposal and the reactions to it? It is highlighting a shift in the perception of Castilian/Spanish explorers/conquistadors. -- Donald Albury 09:59, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Well, I have read that de León might not have been the first to 'discover Florida', and that slave traders might have had contact roughly five years before. I didn't know that Ponce de León might have been one of those slave traders. I wasn't aware of this information concerning the Ponce de León/Ais island controversy. I'm undecided on whether the naming should be either one or the other, but I don't think that it should constitute not naming it Juan Ponce de Leon because of the treatment of the natives (which weren't even in Florida, but Puerto Rico), but more so because of the chance he wasn't the first explorer. How many other explorers have places named after them in spite of their reputations? Sir Francis Drake has a bay named after him in California and an island in England, Cortes has a town in Honduras and an island in Canada named after him, the currency in Panama is called Balboa, I could keep going on with instances such as these. I don't condone what he did, but I don't get emotionally driven on places being named after controversial people, because if I did, I would be made at practically the whole world. Sorry, got off topic. There are a few places that I do know of that are named after de León, such as Ponce de León Springs in Atlanta, cities named Ponce de León in both Florida and Missouri, the Ponce Islet, Ponce de Leon State Park, etc. in Florida. Here's the link for more places in the U.S.:[1]. I know there's a high school named after him in Puerto Rico, but that's all of the information that I'm aware of at the moment. His perception in Puerto Rico would be a nice find. LeftAire (talk) 17:41, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

The possibility that Ponce de León was looking for slaves is the conclusion of a historian, I don't know of any source contemporary with Ponce de León that says that. However, I do find it easier to believe that he was looking for new lands to conquer, and for the gold and Indians he might find there, than to believe that he was looking for the Fountain of Youth (a story which did not appear until 40 or so years after his voyage). As for an appropriate name for that currently unnamed island in Brevard County, I think that the Ais, who lived there for a long time, and were likely descended from people who had lived there for thousands of years, have a better claim than Ponce de León, who may or may not have landed there once. As for things named after him, besides what you name, Florida already has Ponce Inlet, Florida (city, next to Ponce de Leon Inlet), Ponce de Leon Bay, at least two hotels named Ponce de Leon Hotel, and Ponce de Leon Middle School, that have WP articles (OK, the middle school is a redirect). There are Ponce de Leon Boulevards in nine Florida cities that I have found in a quick search. -- Donald Albury 16:08, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

I was skeptical of the idea that de León was looking for slaves, and I certainly didn't read that in any contemporary sources, either. I think that I might have misspelled the islet/inlet with regards to Florida. With regards of the island name, it probably would make more sense to name the island Ais since they were the original inhabitants, and the region was named Ais previously, and I do agree the Ais do have a better claim. As for extra information for the article, I'll continue to try and find material whenever I have the chance. LeftAire (talk) 03:47, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Extra sentence around footnote 51

In the First Voyage to Florida section, we find

On the 4th of June, there was another encounter with natives near Sanibel Island and the Calusa in war canoes, with the Spanish sinking a fourth of them. An unsubstantiated claim to justify Spanish retreat.[51]

The original source, Marley at page 17, only supports the first sentence. The sentence fragment which follows ("An unsubstantiated claim....") does not appear in Marley and does not have its own support.

199.107.16.130 (talk) 17:01, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Inappropriate Language

In the section: "Last voyage to Florida"

... The colonists were soon attacked by Calusa "braves"...

Not particualarly an acceptable term these days. Why not "redskins" or "savages"?? But of course those wouldn't be used in Wikipedia and "braves" shouldn't either. Maybe change to warriors, or some other military term? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.160.218.42 (talk) 23:22, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

What exactly is wrong with braves? Do you have a source verifying it is "not acceptable"? This is the first time I've ever seen claim the term 'braves' is pejorative or inappropiate for whatever reason, which 'savages' and 'redskins' clearly are. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 23:50, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps we could find the word that the Calusa themselves used for such people.... 199.107.16.130 (talk) 17:03, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Visigothic origins

"The identity of his parents is still unknown, but he appears to have been a member of a distinguished and influential noble family. His relatives included Rodrigo Ponce de León, Marquis of Cádiz, a celebrated figure in the Moorish wars."...therefore, the addition of phrases indicating a Visigothic origin is unwarranted. I'm sure that he has more than just Visigothic origins. --Maragm (talk) 08:51, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Article fully protected for three days

@Maragm and Pietje96: Instead of blocking both of you for edit-warring, I have protected what is no doubt The Wrong Version for three days. Favonian (talk) 10:40, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

If you look at the history of the article, months ago I corrected the genealogy, added sources, created articles on related individuals, all sourced, such as Bermudo Núñez where the same user changed information that was as specified in the source that I had added, also created Ponce Vela de Cabrera, also well-referenced where again, the same user added the Visigoth heritage which is not documented in the sources originally provided, and also created Pedro Ponce de Cabrera and Sancha Ponce de Cabrera (just to show that I am familiar with this lineage and have studied them in depth). Not all nobles in Spain descend from the Visigoths and any filiation must be documented and there is no primary source proving that this lineage has Visigothic origins. I will ask two other users well-versed in these medieval genealogies to chime in (Srnec and Agricolae). It is certainly not the "Wrong Version"as it stands. --Maragm (talk) 11:06, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear Maragm, would you stop adding those useless foreign-language sources concerning to Ponce's family, that tend to be etymologically biased? Specially that one referring to a supposed basque origin on Ponce Vélaz, one of the explorer supposed ancestors. For example, you've introduced a source where it can be read the following declaration: "...Basque-Navarrese names in subsequent generations, such as Vela and Oveco". Not correct, not at all. Oveco perhaps may be basque, but even the Royal Academy of the Basque language claims that Vela (Veila, Wegila) is a name of Visigothic origin, just as spanish scholars since the XVI century [2] est Vela nomen Gothicum. Pietje96 (talk) 12:35, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Funny that you claim that I use useless foreign-language sources and then you go and add a link to a source in Spanish from the 17th-century (pretty much surpassed by modern scholars). Perhaps what would be best is to remove all of this Ponce de León ancestry since we don't even know the parentage of Juan P. de L. You not only claim a Visigothic origin but also put words into the mouth of one of the sources I used by adding a phrase just before the reference when the source does not say that at all.--Maragm (talk) 12:47, 30 December 2014 (UTC) pd...and on the Basque origin, it's not what I say, since I am quoting a secondary source as can be verified here. So if you take issue with that, I suggest you get in touch directly with the author.--Maragm (talk) 12:59, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear Maragm, before introducing useless, biased foreing-language sources, you should distinguish between sources used as references and web links that have been written in talk pages. No disrespect, but as I've told you before, Ponce's ancestral heritage should be written here, as you might be the only one who cares about Ponce's relatives from the XI century. Pietje96 (talk) 13:24, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Two more useless Spanish sources indicating that the origin could be Basque p. 237 "Vela is traditionally considered a pre-Roman or Basque name with the meaning of Cuervo even though some say that it is Suevian, that is, of germanic origin". And here, p. 50 Vela as Basque I had not mentioned the Basque origin originally and only added it after you decided to add the Visigothic bit right before a reference which does not even mention that. --Maragm (talk) 14:47, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear Maragm. Here is a link of the Academy of the Basque language about basque given names [3]; if we click on Bela it appears to be a short form of Beila, that is, according to this academy, a short form of Vigila, a visigoth name. Not a big surprise, as we can find a gothic count named Veila in 511, who was killed in Barcelona, during the reign of goth king Gesalec: Comes uero Veila Barcinone occiditur (CHRONICORVM CAESARAVGVSTANORVM RELIQVIAE. Ad. a. 511). If you want some sources, here you have some: * Justo Pérez de Urbel: Historia del Condado de Castilla, Vol. 2, p.113 CSIC, 1945: Claims Vela is of course a short form of Veila (Vigila). * Carl Justi: Velázquez y su siglo, p. 125: explains the evolution of the name, from Vigila (Wigila or Wegila, modern day Weigel) to Vela. * (basque source) Euskal Herriaren Historiari Buruzko Biltzarra: Erakundeak, ekonomia eta gizartea (VIII-XV mendeak): María de Meñaca: Castilla primitiva y el linaje vasco de los Velas. Ed. Txertoa, 1988: Explains a deep study about the Vela family, of which Ponce Vélaz takes the name or surname, who was of visigothic origin: Godos al servicio de francos * Emiliana Ramos Remedios: Aportaciones del análisis antroponímico al área vasco-románica (siglos IX-XII). La documentación de Santa María de Valpuesta. Rev. int. estd. Vascos. 55, 2, 2010. 499-566. Emphasizes: We can conclude, that there is a single name of Visigothic origin, that graphically evolves through our documentation, from Vigila to Vela, which doesn't seem to have anything with the Basque 'vela' 'Crow' . Got german sources aswell: *Revue internationale d'onomastique, Vol. 18-19, p. 57: Denn Vela ist stets Maskulinum un entspricht apg. Veila (...) älter Vegila (...) aus got. *Wegila. Éditions d'Artrey, 1966. * Franz Stark: Die Kosenamen der Germanen, p. 67: Veila, short form of Vigila) 1868. * Volkert F. Faltings: Nordfriesische Grabhügelnamen mit anthroponymem Erstglied: Zur form und flexion älterer nordfriesischer rufnamen, p. 37: same thing. * Karl Brugmann, Wilhelm Streitberg, August Leskien: Indogermanische Forschungen, p. 50: Menschennamen: Veila Westgote, etwa aus * Wëgila”; Vol. 32. 1913. Ps. See also * La España moderna, N.º 211-216, pp.86-89. M. Tello, 1906. Also found this one [4], an useless source as yours.. Pietje96 (talk) 16:20, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

And don't forget to delete the biased content, thanks for your time. Pietje96 (talk) 16:22, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, Pietje96, don't forget to delete your biased content since it was you who started with the Visigoth origin when this article is not about that and I only corrected months ago what was an erroneous genealogy. It is not for you or I to say that it is Basque, Swahili, or Visigoth and the normal thing to do is to include different hypotheses backed by secondary sources instead of adding info before a reference to make it look as if that reference had said that. --Maragm (talk) 17:39, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

The fact is that Ponce de León was descended from the Vela Family (Browne Ayes: Juan Ponce de Leon His New and Revised Genealogy), and thus, descended from the Visigoths, see Meñaca: Castilla primitiva y el linaje vasco de los Velas: Godos al servicio de francos. You wrote "the normal thing to do is to include different hypotheses". Not really. The 'normal thing' is to include only the truth (so I had to prove your content was wrong), the rest can be thrown directly into the rubbish. Also "instead of adding info before a reference to make it look as if that reference had said that", hey! you may have done that, not me. And again, don't forget to delete the biased content you wrote about Vela (Ponce Vélaz) being a basque name, or I'll do it for you. Remember that even the Academy of Basque Language denies that. Ridiculous! Pietje96 (talk) 18:17, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Hey, you actually did do that as evidenced by the history of this and two other articles!Here, you changed Basque/Navarrese, as mentioned by the source to “similar”. And you did the same thing here, adding “Of visigoth heritage” in the same sentence that has a reference by Torres Sevilla when she does not mention that. And in this article, in particular, you did the same thing, adding “of visigothic origin” again, right before the original reference by Torres Sevilla who does not say that. Later you added Peck as a reference after I had reverted…and not content with mentioning it once, you had to add that his pedigree dated back to the times of the Visigothic kings, without adding any reference. So, unless you have a namesake here using the same nick, the above does show that you did exactly what I had said. --Maragm (talk) 18:56, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Hey, I should have put my references before writing anything just before your total useless, clueless & mediocre information. Anyway, the Visigothic origin was just a small detail. The only thing proving those changes, is your incompetence to put references that are verifiable, just as the one saying Vela is a basque name. About the Pedigree reference, I thought I had included the citation F. Kottenkamp: The History of Chivalry and Armour.... p. 15, 2013, Courier Corporation: Ponce de Leon could exhibit a pedigree which dated back to the times of the Visigothic Kings. Don't keep up the bad work. Pietje96 (talk) 19:20, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm glad that you're convinced of the Visigothic origin, since I see that in Spanish wiki you were not that certain and in the article on Vela (apellido) you added a reference on the Basque origin and here you give preference to the Basque rather than the Visigothic matrix. and in the discussion page of the above-mentioned article, you adamantly asserted that “Vela was a Basque name from inmemorial time,…and that Veila is from Vasconia and as indicated by author María de Meñaca, the family’s origin was from Navarra-Aragón, that is, Basque”.

Re my poor unverifiable references: Margarita Torres has a PHD in Medieval History and is a profesor in the University of León and has published quite a few books and articles in reputable publications.

Salarar y Acha is member of the Real Academia Matritense de Heraldica y Genealogía and has also published many works, one of which is a monographic study of the Velas, quite verifiable in Googlebooks, including his mention of Vela as a Basque name.

I have no intention of editing this article again, so do as you wish, although I would suggest to leave out the etymology and leave it as it was before your one and only contribution to this article, the addition of the Visigothic origin since what I had added months ago did not include any etymology. --Maragm (talk) 20:02, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Ok. But I've already told you about the basque academy stuff & shown we can find a gothic count named Veila in 511 Comes uero Veila Barcinone occiditur (CHRONICORVM CAESARAVGVSTANORVM RELIQVIAE. Ad. a. 511) At the beginning I thought It was a basque name too. I was 100% wrong Pietje96 (talk) 08:43, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Consensus. Ponce's ancestral origin, should be written elsewhere. Pietje96 (talk) 08:56, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

I have been a genealogist for over 30 years and am descended from 16th century colonists of St. Augustine and a descendant of the Ponce de Leon Family. While I am proud of my famous relative and our family's heritage I do NOT believe that a Wikipedia biography needs to include a full treatment of his genealogy. The knowledge of his ancestry is imperfect and genealogy is not integral to his accomplishments the way it is for a royal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.144.213.97 (talk) 12:08, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Add two pictures

Can anyone put these pictures about his first voyage, please? In this paragraph (Juan_Ponce_de_León#First_voyage_to_Florida)

• 
  Juan Ponce de Leon and their explorers in Florida looking for the fountain of youth, according to a German romantic drawing of the nineteenth century.
• 
  A late-1800s engraving of Ponce de León’s expedition seeking the Fountain of Youth in Florida.

The article would be cluttered with more images added, and these are both romanticized pictures from the 19th century of an event that never occurred. One is already in the Fountain of Youth article, which is a more appropriate place for them, anyway. This article is better without them. Carlstak (talk) 13:20, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

First discoverer of mainland (future) U.S.?

I could be wrong, but wasn't Ponce de Leon the first European discoverer of what would become the U.S. mainland? And if so, shouldn't that be mentioned here -- as well as in other articles that talk about that period and the history of the U.S.? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.101.77.44 (talk) 16:12, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Juan Ponce de Leon was not the first European to find mainland america. that would be Leif Ericsson, a Scandinavian viking, who found Canada. Little Frog (talk) 20:54, 25 October 2017 (UTC)Little FrogLittle Frog (talk) 20:54, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 February 2019

Juan Ponce de León was born in 1460, not 1474. Or is this another example of the Mandela Effect?... 2600:1006:B14A:8FF:9D05:9AE1:3D8F:B983 (talk) 05:10, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Please read the article. It explains the confusion. – Jonesey95 (talk) 08:58, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Puerto Rico

The Spanish conquistador Ponce de leon was the first governor of Puerto Rico. conquistador definition:a conqueror, especially one of the Spanish conquerors of Mexico and Peru in the 16th century. He had renamed it from boriken to San Juan Bautista on november 19 1493. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sylaslockwood (talk • contribs) 14:24, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Catholic Church

It would be interesting to know the Church opinion about this article.

No, it wouldn't. And your comment has nothing to do with improving the article, but is only WP:FORUM.50.111.22.12 (talk) 17:49, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS

CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS WAS ON OF THE FIRST EXPLORERS. HE WAS BORN IN GENOA, ITALY.HE HAD OWNED 3 SHIPS. THEY WERE NAMED: SANTA MARIA, THE PINTA AND THE NINA. HE HAD A KING AND QUEEN NAMED: QUEEN ISABELLA THE FIRST AND KING FERDINAD THE SECOND. THEY HAD JUST CAMEOUT FROM A BIG WAR THAT THEY HAD JUST WON. HE HAD ASKED THE KING AND QUEEN IF HE WAS ABLE TO BORROW SOME MONEY OF THEIRS. THEY DID NOT WANT TO BECAUSE THEY HAD TO GIVE IT OUT BECAUSE WHOEVER HAD CONTRIBUTED TO THE WAR THEY WOULD GET TO RECEIVE BACK MONEY FROM THEM. THEN THE KING AND QUEEN THOUGHT THAT IF THEY LENDED SOME OF THE MONEY HE COULD GIVE THEM SOME WHEN THEY RETURN. CHRISTPHER COLUNBUS HAD TO MAKE A PROMISE THAT HE WOULD BRING THEM SOME BACK. HE WENT ON MANY VOYAGES BUT ONE SHIP HAD NEVER MADE IT BACK IT WAS THE SANTA MARIA. CHRISTOPHER COLUNBUS HAD DONE AN EXPLORATION WITH PONCE DE LEON TO CREATE THE NEW EXPLORATION. CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS DID A LOT OF EXPEDITIONS FOR EXAMPLE CUBA, FLORIDA AND MORE. HE EMJOYED WJAT HE WAS DOING. HE SOON MADE THAT PROMISE AND BRANG BACK THE GOLD TO THE KING ANQUEEN. HE WANTED A OT OF GOLD TO HAVE LOYALITY IN COUNTRIES. HE WAS ONE OF THE EXLORERS HIS MOST FAMOUS FOR HIS EXPEDITION. WE REPRESERNT HIM BY THE DAY THAT IS NA,=MED COLUMBUS DAY, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.37.181.66 (talk) 01:04, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

thanks for the shout-post, Polish IP - what the? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.111.22.12 (talk) 18:03, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 March 2020

Juan Ponce de Leon was born 1554 138.229.188.249 (talk) 06:51, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

No, this Ponce de Leon died well before that. Perhaps you're thinking of someone else with a similar name? Here's a list of "other" Juan Ponce de Leons who have Wikipedia articles: Ponce de León (disambiguation) --Zeng8r (talk) 11:22, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

The life of Juan Ponce De Leon

It should be called that because it is talking ABOUT the life of him. that is all i have now

Why “official”?

The intro paragraph says he led the “first official European expedition to Florida”. By saying “official”, it implies there was at least one unofficial European expedition before his. The Florida Wikipedia page doesn’t mention that. I’m not a historian so I don’t know if there’s any controversy about this, but in the absence of any citation justifying this belief, the word “official” should be deleted or perhaps replaced with “known”.GaryFx (talk) 13:05, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

As mentioned in this section of the History of Florida article, small Spanish and/or Portuguese parties almost certainly sighted and landed in Florida before Ponce de Leon's famous expedition. The first Spanish expeditions were likely small and unauthorized slave raids, and though the Portuguese government may have sponsored extensive map-making journeys in the area soon after Columbus, they were very secretive about their discoveries. So while there is ample circumstantial evidence for earlier European arrivals, documentation is scarce and details are sketchy, hence the qualified phrasing that Ponce de Leon's 1513 expedition was the first to be officially and publicly authorized by a European government.

This article likely doesn't go into all these the details since they're tangential to his biography, though I'm on the fence on whether or not they should be briefly mentioned in the text. Definitely not in the lead, though. Zeng8r (talk) 16:15, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

he dicover the foutian of youth — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FCC8:AE0C:1500:2824:14A9:E46:8744 (talk) 13:01, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 October 2020

he dincoiser the foutan of youth 2607:FCC8:AE0C:1500:2824:14A9:E46:8744 (talk) 13:17, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Asartea ^{Trick | Treat} 13:27, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 October 2020

". The statue was made in New York in 1882 using the bronze from English cannons seized after the English attacked San Juan in 1797.[57]"

I think this is supposed to be part of the photo caption. 144.96.41.37 (talk) 10:20, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Terasail^[Talk] 22:16, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Change

Image & caption to displayed as a thumb on the article
	Ponce de León's statue in Plaza San José, San Juan, Puerto Rico

The statue was made in New York in 1882 using the bronze from English cannons seized after the English attacked San Juan in 1797. Again, the exact site of their landfall is controversial. The vicinity of Charlotte Harbor is the most commonly identified spot...

to

Image & caption to displayed as a thumb on the article
	Ponce de León's statue in Plaza San José, San Juan, Puerto Rico. The statue was made in New York in 1882 using the bronze from English cannons seized after the English attacked San Juan in 1797.

Again, the exact site of their landfall is controversial. The vicinity of Charlotte Harbor is the most commonly identified spot... 144.96.41.37 (talk) 07:19, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: Please see MOS:CAPSUCCINCT, thanks. Terasail^[Talk] 22:35, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Then please delete "The statue was made...", because this sentence is about the statue and clearly does not fit in with the surrounding body of the text. 144.96.41.37 (talk) 02:40, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

 DoneThe text was obviously meant to be part of the photo caption. I've removed the extraneous text for concision, and fixed the layout. Thanks to the IP, well done. Carlstak (talk) 04:14, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

References

Parody?

Is this relevant? I say take it out, maybe keep it as a "see also". Also, it's a potential spoiler. HereToHelp 23:47, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

• • it's been sitting there for years. I can't find an article of that title or a journal of that name. Deleted. Glendoremus (talk) 17:10, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 May 2022

May you pls put source 174.76.113.101 (talk) 14:47, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 15:02, 2 May 2022 (UTC)