Talk:Juukan Gorge

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Cave: destroyed or not?

The only photos showing up at a Google search, the shelters (the grottoes under a rock ledge, if I interpret correctly what I'm seeing, because there's no explanation in the captions) are still there. What's gone is the mildly sloping hill above them. Which should never happen with a major heritage site, where the immediate environment is essential to the understanding of the site and also to its visual impact. But that's not the point. Did I misunderstand what the photos are showing? If yes, it's not my fault. Especially in politically charged situations, precise information is essential. On WP it should be detailed as well as concise, and if possible illustrated with pictures. It isn't, and the endless text w/o a structure (paragraphs with meaningful headings) make it useless to the user, who usually doesn't have the time to study the text like a lawyer does with a law or a researcher with unprocessed experimental data.

What HAS been destroyed? What has been documented beforehand, maybe even saved and is in archaeological storage or museum displays? What's the talk of Rio Tinto "restoring the shelters" - using what, cardboard or cement? Are there 3D computer scans and photos of destroyed shelters, if indeed there are any destroyed shelters, and of rock art there? That's what needs to be documented here, anything else is regurgitating useless journalistic superficial products. I don't give a damn about Jacques, and nobody will remember his name pretty soon, but I do care to know what was there, what's gone, and what scientific documentation of it we've got left. Arminden (talk) 10:23, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You are probably referring to photos like these, https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/24/rio-tinto-chiefs-lose-millions-in-bonuses-over-destruction-of-juukan-gorge ? The pictures are both taken before the blast. The second image is showing some destruction, but it's apparently only in preparation of the actual blast.

To my knowledge nobody has ever released images showing how the site did look after the blast. I do very much agree that there is some lack of information, about the size/shape of the cave before the explosion, and about its remains (if any). --2OO.3OO.2OO.3OO (talk) 14:38, 24 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Updates and questions

I have a couple of questions: 1. I don't think the caves were sacred. There was no evidence of rituals/ceremonies there. As written in 'The Conversation' in July 2024 (link here https://theconversation.com/the-first-published-results-from-juukan-gorge-show-47-000-years-of-aboriginal-heritage-was-destroyed-in-mining-blast-234806) they were ancient. Furthermore the PKKP (traditional owners) didn't formally object until it was too late (see the Registrar witness statement on the Senate Inquiry). 2. The laws were repelled after a huge backlash (this was in the context of the referendum on the Voice). In short, nothing has changed. 3. WP should be factual. I feel that this article is too emotional and indulges in a bit of activism. I'll try to amend AnitaLaFrancaise (talk) 07:54, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand why Rio Tinto & ex CEO Jacques took all the blame when the blast was legal, no objections were made until it was too late and the laws haven't changed (the 2021 law was repealed). AnitaLaFrancaise (talk) 08:21, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]