Talk:Lake Van

Name relationships?

1. As Lake Van is in Turkey, the Turkish name of the lake in Turkish should be displayed before any other language. 2. Can anybody explain the relevance of Ottoman-Armenian population, Armenian genocide, or Treaty of Sevres, which are lisred in the "See Also Section", with Lake Van? AldirmaGonul 05:47, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

Needs better pictures

The Lake deserves better pictures.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/wildworld/profiles/photos/pa/pa0805a.html http://lh3.ggpht.com/_SY8WbeiNaOg/SFAleX5p1hI/AAAAAAAADSU/7y4aTqwyZGI/CIMG1067.JPG http://sacredsites.com/middle_east/turkey/akdamar.htm —Preceding http://www.ramayana.si/Turkey/Akdamar116.jpg unsigned comment added by 72.38.144.241 (talk) 22:13, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

A map of its location would be useful too. MikeEagling (talk) 16:42, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Is Lake Van saline or not?

I have noticed a contradiction between this article and the article on Kurdistan. This article describes Lake Van as a saline body of water; the Kurdistan article describes Lake Van as a non-saline body of water. Would those of you working on these two articles mind sorting this out? I am posting this observation on the other site's Talk page, also.RNavigator 13:11, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Here's some information from http://lakes.chebucto.org/saline1.html

A widely accepted demarcation line between fresh and salt water occurs at 3 grams per litre, or 3 o/oo. (Freshwater lakes contain 0 - 3 g/L of salt and saltwater lakes anything over 3 g/L). Here are data for some lakes:

Lake	Salinity (g/L)
Caspian Sea	10-12
Lake Van	24
Great Salt Lake	150-280
Dead Sea (Israel/Jordan)	over 300

I think it's clear that Van is definitely a salt lake, but obviously much less salty than the Dead Sea.

Various salts contribute to the salinity, not just sodium chloride. In particular, the presence of sodium carbonate and sodium bicarbonate in some salt lakes makes the water alkaline. Lake Van has a pH of 9.8 which is distinctly alkaline (data from http://www.internationales-buero.de/_media/Abstract-Sari.pdf).

Hope that helps. Euchiasmus 05:25, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Sources

I provided them, its good enough. Artaxiad 19:12, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Transliteration of Armenian name

Can someone please transliterate the Armenian name? Meursault2004 12:10, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Accurate measurements

Lake Van is a notable lake because it's so deep and is very large for a salt lake. It would be good to be able to list some accurate measurements for the lake, such as depth, area, volume height above sea level, etc. There are quite a number of differing figures for these, so I thought compiling the various sources here might help establish the most reliable figures. Any general comments would be welcome, too. Rupert Clayton 14:25, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Bold (where used) indicates figures that appear to have most corroboration. Data sources are listed at the end.Rupert Clayton 17:16, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Maximum depth

• 457 m
• 451 m
• 445 m
• 145 m
• 90 m

Average depth

• 171 m

Surface area

• 3,763 km² (1,453 sq mi)
• 3,755 km²
• 3,713 km² (1,434 sq mi)
• 3,600 km²
• 3,574 km²
• 3,522 km²

Drainage basin

• 19,405 km²
• 12,500 km²

Water volume

• 607 km³

Shoreline length

• 430 km

Length and width

• 130 km
• 120 km (75 mi)
• 119 km (74 mi)

Surface elevation

• 1719 m
• 1670 m
• 1650 m
• 1646 m
• 1640 m

Chemistry and salinity

Overall salinity: 24 g/L

Salt content (just NaCl?): 0.19%

pH: 9.8

1911 Britannica [8]

[9]

Data sources

Many reports of research around Lake Van in various fields contain basic data on the lake's measurements. Because of this, modern sources in seemingly tangential specialties may have more accurate data than older geological, limnological, and bathymetric sources.

Springer journals [10]

Geology and bathymetry

• Cook, A. C. & Kurtman, F. (eds) 1978. The Geology of Lake Van, Memoir. Mineral Research Exploration Institute Turkey, Ankara, 169.

• Cook, A. C., Wong, H. K. Kempe, S. & Kurtman, F. 1984. A geological study of Lake Van, Eastern Turkey. Geologische Rundschau, 73, 701–734.

• A geological study of Lake Van, eastern Turkey (Degens 1984)

• Kempe, S. 1977. Hydrographie, Warven-Chronologie und Organische Geochemie des Van Sees, Ost-Türkei. Mitteilunger Geologisch-paläontologischen Institut der Universität Hamburg, 47, 125–228.

• Landmann, G., and S. Kempe. 2005. Annual deposition signal versus lake dynamics: Microprobe analysis of Lake Van (Turkey) sediments reveals missing varves in the period 11.2-10.2 ka BP. Facies 51: 143-153.

• Spatial variability in the release of terrigenic He from the sediments of Lake Van (Turkey) (Tomonaga 2007)

• Utkucu, M. 2006. Implications for the water level change triggered moderate (M >= 4.0) earthquakes in Lake Van basin, Eastern Turkey. Journal Of Seismology 10: 105-117.

• "The bathymetry of Lake Van, eastern Turkey" (Wong 1978) in Geology of Lake Van

Hydrology, limnology, climate

• Altunkaynak, A., M. Ozger, and Z. Sen. 2003. Triple diagram model of level fluctuations in Lake Van, Turkey. Hydrology and Earth System Sciences 7: 235-244.

• "Investigation of Rainfall-Runoff Modelling of the Van Lake Catchment by Using Remote Sensing and GIS Integration" (Coskun 2004) in Proceedings of the 20th Congress of the International Society for Photogrammetry and Remote Sensing
  

• M. Kadioğlu, Z. Şen and E. Batur, The greatest soda-water lake in the world and how it is influenced by climatic change, Annales Geophysicae, Volume 15, Number 11 / February, 1997, pages 1489-1497, doi:10.1007/s00585-997-1489-9

• Kilicel, F., and F. Gokalp. 2005. Aas determination of some trace heavy metals in Lake Van water after preconcentration by complexation with surface functional groups on activated carbon. Fresenius Environmental Bulletin 14: 124-129.

• Lemcke G., and M. Sturm, δ18O and Trace Element Measurements as Proxy for the Reconstruction of Climate Changes at Lake Van (Turkey): Preliminary Results, in: N. Dalfes, G. Kukla, H. Weiss, eds., Third Millennium BC Climate Change and Old World Collapse. Berlin, Springer, pp. 653-678 (1997).

• Ogun, E., E. Atalan, and K. Ozdemir. 2005. Some pollution parameters in water samples from Lake Van, Turkey. Fresenius Environmental Bulletin 14: 1031-1035.

• Wick, L., G. Lemcke and M. Sturm, Evidence of late Glacial and Holocene climatic change and human

impact in eastern Anatolia: high resolution pollen, charcoal, isotopic, and geochemical records from the laminated sediments of Lake Van, Turkey, The Holocene 2003 in press.

Biology and fisheries

• Aliriz, S., and V. Turkoglu. 2003. Purification and characterization of acetylcholinesterase from the Lake Van fish (Chalcalburnus tarichii Pallas, 1811). Preparative Biochemistry & Biotechnology 33: 137-145.

• Berber, I., and S. Berber. 2006. Numerical analysis of SDS-PAGE protein patterns of facultative alkaliphilic Bacillus species isolated from Lake Van, Turkey. Fresenius Environmental Bulletin 15: 409-416.

• Inland fisheries of Europe (Dill 1990)

• Kilicel, F., and F. Gokalp. 2005. Determination of some heavy metal levels in muscle tissues of Lake Van fish (Chalcalburnus tarichi). Asian Journal Of Chemistry 17: 2425-2429.

• Lopez-Garcia, P., J. Kazmierczak, K. Benzerara, S. Kempe, F. Guyot, and D. Moreira. 2005. Bacterial diversity and carbonate precipitation in the giant microbialites from the highly alkaline Lake Van, Turkey. Extremophiles 9: 263-274.

• Fisheries and Remote Sensing Applications in Lake Van (Sarı 2007)
  

• Senler, N. G., K. Bicek, A. Gul, and S. Deger. 2003. A note on endoparasitic fauna in gulls around Lake Van region. Indian Veterinary Journal 80: 830-831.

Other reports

• Proceedings of ERS-Envisat Symposium (ESA 2000)

• Saline Lakes (SWCSMH 2006)

Encyclopedias and general works

Encyclopedia Britannica online

Columbia Encyclopedia online

References for those sources

Lake Van saw a rapid rise in the level of its waters in the 1990s. I don't have a source to give specific data but it was a very substantial increase (well over 3 meters, accompanied by large areas of agricultural land being flooded). For example, the jetty of the ferry port at Tatvan was operating normally in the 1980s but was completely under water by the late 1990s and a new one had to be constructed. All figures for surface area, depth, shoreline length, etc., that were compiled before the 1990s will now be inaccurate. Meowy 15:53, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Water level rise and railway deviation

If the water level rises after a railway deviation is built to bypass the Lake Van ferry, that investment would be wasted. How difficult would it to build an outlet tunnel to drain the lake and protect that railway? Tabletop (talk) 01:23, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

References

I added a reference to the pH, but the article still needs a reference about the extraction of economic resources. I'll see what I can find, but someone searching Turkish sources would be useful also. --KP Botany (talk) 19:38, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Thospitis

http://www.livius.org/va-vh/van/van_lake.html , this name is important because Van, Turkey = Tushpa! (The Greek and Latin languages had no "sh" sound)Böri (talk) 12:35, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Name of this peninsula

Name of this peninsula?

Hi. Does anyone know the name of this peninsula. Google Maps/Earth shows nothing, and I cant find anything while searching online. Rehman 11:51, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Deveboynu. Duh, everyone knows that! Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 16:01, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

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External links modified

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Greek name

Rupert Clayton: Greek name seems relevant for a major lake that was part of the Byzantine Empire on and off. Mostly off, that is. As far as I am able to find out, the area was Byzantine from 1021 (when the Armenian kingdom of Vaspurakan was incorporated in the Byzantine Empire) to 1087 (the battle of Manzikert), possibly also for a few years up to the Arab invasion in 640. For most of historic time it has been part of different Armenian states, and it has actually been far longer under Mongolian rule than under Byzantine. I would suggest that the Greek name is undue for the lede per WP:PLACE. If not, there will be a huge number of places where a Greek name should or could be added. --T*U (talk) 09:52, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

TU-nor: Fair enough. I agree that those two periods seem to be when the area around Lake Van was under Byzantine control. I moved the Greek name down to the section on the lake's history during the Byzantine empire. Thanks. Rupert Clayton (talk) 18:44, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Armenian name

Why is the Armenian name of the town included? These have been Turkish and Kurdish lands for a thousand years. Articles on Greek islands that were Turkish territory a hundred years ago are not allowing Turkish names to be included! Double standards seem to be at play. Someone explain it logically please. Dominator1071 (talk) 23:19, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

There have been Armenians in the area for centuries, as witness the Cathedral of the Holy Cross, Aghtamar.

If you could point out Greek places where the Ottoman place name is "not allowed to be included", please let me know. As a general rule, the Ottoman names should be given, as for example in Chania, Crete, Lesbos, Giannitsa, etc. --Macrakis (talk) 02:55, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Removal of information from stable lead

ZaniGiovanni you are removing the Eastern Anatolia Region wikilink from the stable lead, which was inserted about 7 months ago [11] with no apperant reason. And only reverting when it's readded. Would you care to explain why that information should be removed? DriedGrape (talk) 07:47, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

I explained my reason. It isn't being "removed", it's being wikilinked appropriately, as we already have Turkey in lead and it makes sense to add the region as a wikilink to "east of Turkey" (which it is and which I did). Also, you're broadly tbanned from AA, please don't edit and edit-war in this article. It directly falls under your tban, see the WikiProject Armenia banner above. Also, as I already told you in ANI, consensus do change. Saying "stable edit" isn't a valid reason for edit-warring. If we go even further back, there was no Eastern Anatolia Region in the lead, but that isn't my point. And as I said, consensuses do change. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 07:59, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Exactly, consensuses do change, except you seem to wish to completely skip that step. This is not MOS:LINKONCE, you have moved the specific information further below. And "the east of Turkey" is much less accurate and helpful than the previous stable version. DriedGrape (talk) 08:04, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

That's entirely your opinion. To me, it just clogs the lead as we already have Turkey present in the lead. It only makes sense to add it as a wlink to east of Turkey which it is: Eastern_Anatolia_Region#Location_and_borders – "The Eastern Anatolia Region is located in the easternmost part of Turkey.". ZaniGiovanni (talk) 08:14, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

And that is also entirely your opinion. "The east of Turkey" is not synonymous with the Eastern Anatolia Region. And since it is an administrative region, it makes no sense to not refer to it by name here, or pushing it down in the lead. Not to WP:OTHERSTUFF, but there are many other locations of nature in Turkey the articles for which refer to the administrative region by name and further in the lead. DriedGrape (talk) 08:19, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

I didn't say it's “synonymous” I said it lies in the east of Turkey, which it does. And you're WP:OTHERSTUFFing right now. We already have Turkey in the lead, wlinking the region as east of Turkey seems appropriate to me. If you disagree, we can ask for a third opinion. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 08:24, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Regardless, you shouldn't be engaging and edit-warring in an area that you're broadly tbanned from, how hard is it for you to understand? ZaniGiovanni (talk) 08:25, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

I'm sorry but hyperlinking "the east of Turkey" to Eastern Anatolia Region definitely suggests they are synonymous. We already had a third opinion. The stable version was achieved after editorial back-and-forths. Edit: I'm pretty sure I'm not sanctioned from talking about Administrative divisions of Turkey. DriedGrape (talk) 08:28, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Hyperlinking "east of Turkey" with Eastern Anatolia region means that The Eastern Anatolia Region is located in the easternmost part of Turkey. And "stable version" does change. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 08:32, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

No you're sanctioned from AA area, and the article falls direclty under WikiProject Armenia. Not only you're sanctioned from AA, you're sanction is WP:BROADLY, and you keep nibbling around it. And it's not like you already breached your sanction, removing Armenian highlands entirely in a different article [12]. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 08:35, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Your constant accusations are nearing WP:PA at this point. Also, WP:OTHERSTUFF, please refrain from derailing the topic. DriedGrape (talk) 08:43, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Edit: I'm pretty sure I'm not sanctioned from talking about Administrative divisions of Turkey – My reply was to your added comment. And I'm not accusing, I'm stating the facts with diffs. If you want the conversation to be solely about this article, then don't add comments of "how sure you are that you aren't breaching your tban". And unfoundedly accusing others of misconduct is what actually constitutes as a personal attack, which you're doing rn. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 08:48, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Region name

This article incorrectly uses an archaic region name instead of its modern name (Eastern Anatolia v. Armenian Highlands.) WP:MPN explicitly states that modern place names should be used instead of historical names. The previous arguments on this talk page fail to establish why "Armenian Highlands" is modern usage instead of "Eastern Anatolia." If the users who resist to use the modern place name decline to provide arguments on this respect in due time, I will modify the article accordingly. 95.12.124.115 (talk) 09:15, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Lake van turkey

Show the perfect reason 144.48.225.2 (talk) 15:21, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Lakes near Van

Akdoğan

Haçlı

Nazik

Nemrut

Erçek

Batmış

Aygır

Turna

Kaz

Ahır

Sodalı

Hıdırmenteş

Süphan

Akgöl

Gövelek

Atar

Lakes near Lake Van. For the best understanding, I added the locations of the surrounding lakes on the map.

Vartolu3566 (talk) 15:43, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

History

Why does History segment end so abruptly? 94.252.122.86 (talk) 22:12, 22 January 2024 (UTC)