Talk:Layla Miller

Picture

So is there a picture of Layla Miller before "House of M" or is the red horned part just someone description?--Mullon 23:57, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

• It's the description she gave, post-HoM, of her pre-HoM appearance. She may have been lying. DS 16:51, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

her name in hebrew means "the night" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.230.77.185 (talk) 22:23, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Intro + edits

I thought we should engage in a constructive discussion of the recent changes to the entry here. Because it's actually not an improvement to the entry to have it's first substantive sentence reference "Dr. Strange's theory of her origin" when that theory has not been previously mentioned in the entry. This is a very problematic construction, and "better this way" is just not strong enough of a rationale to explain or justify the change.--Galliaz (talk) 18:58, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I said "better this way", because she needs her origin first, i did not say "wow, look at that, it is perfect". It still needs work, the entire article does. So instead of reverting to a bad state for the article, why not improve it further. Rau J16 19:07, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

We're in agreement: the reversion I made was to an improved state of the entry, for the reason I gave in my first comment. (It wasn't a reversion just for the sake of a reversion, as you imply.) The character's origin is in House of M, so I think a separate "Origin" sub-heading is unnecessary. And in order to continue in a constructive vein, could you please explain why you feel your wording is better? (Specifically: "Contrary to Dr. Strange's ...")--Galliaz (talk) 19:17, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I never said that that wording was better. I was referring tot he split of the sections, her origin is not given in House of M, it is given in X-Factor, where she reveals her status as a depowered mutant, what her mutation was, that she is an orphan and that she was beaten by the other kids at the orphanage. Evidence of some of those facts were even shown, such as her receiving many bruises upon her return tot the orphanage. I feel that mixing the two sections is not a good move because they do not tie into each other as much as they used to. I am 100% for re-wording the opening to the bio section, but 0% for having House of M as the lead section.. Rau J16 19:34, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Rewrote lead to try and satisfy both parties. I did this by making sense of the first statement, with out losing informationRau J16 22:33, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Largely condensed the bio sections of the article. Rau's talk 04:18, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Did it again. Rau's Speak Page 18:58, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Firstly, (and I'd have to double check on this,) I thought that Layla was merely allowed continued existence in an orphanage after House of M, not that she was actually there beforehand. Remember - reality was altered, so it is entirely possible that the people of the orphanage are even given memories of her before House of M, even if she didn't exist yet. This explains why she is in an orphanage in the normal universe, instead of with her parents as in House of M. This would also mean that Doc Strange was not wrong. Secondly, as per the editorial guidelines and using the Batman page as a staple, retcons to the character should be listed in relation to when they were published, aka ordering the article according to real time instead of comic book continuity.Primal Zed (talk) 18:46, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Even if she was initially created during House of M, if reality was altered, couldn't it have been altered so that she actually was born, then put up for adoption. Problem is, it's OR. We go by what is said by the creative teams, and the books themselves. They said she grew up in an orphanage, then she grew up in an orphanage. But I'll fix the article. Rau's Speak Page 20:36, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

While we're discussing this, can someone remind me why we removed the mention of her previous mutant abilities purportedly before House of M? Layla states that she had scales and could breathe fire. If that's part of her "continuity" should it be mentioned?Luminum (talk) 08:01, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

They should be. Rau's Speak Page 08:27, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

I'd have to check the issue to be sure, but with her dry sense of humor I figured her description of her pre-House of M powers were sarcasm. Since it has no real consequence on the character, I don't think it should be mentioned unless in a section describing her mannerisms (as an example of her tendancy to mention stuff she 'knows' that others have no way of verifying). Also, by Rau's logic, 'continuity' was altered in House of M so that she never had those powers anyway, if she ever did.Primal Zed (talk) 13:20, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Marvel definitely notes it. http://www.marvel.com/universe/Miller%2C_Layla They're not always up on their game, but regardless, if they've noted it under her powers, I think it should be on here.Luminum (talk) 18:49, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Considering that website is edited by fans, not directly managed by the company itself, it's not really an absolute basis of fact. You can include her previous powers somewhere in the article if you can find the issue that she mentions them, and indicate that she could be lying. It doesn't seem appropriate to put it prominently, like in the infobox, because we've never actually seen her like this (and likely never will). Primal Zed (talk) 19:24, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

I was simply giving an example. The books state she looked like that, in fact the other kids at the orphanage kinda confirm it. But we can't say whether or not it was sarcasm, or a lie, or anything else. She said it, no one denied it, it's fact until proven otherwise. Rau's Speak Page 20:22, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Mighty Avengers #13

In Mighty Avengers #13, Daisy Johnson approaches Layla at X-Factor Investigations about joining Nick Fury's new Howling Commandos. She declines, saying they would fail with her in the team.

Two points here: 1) Should we mention this in the article?, and 2) How in the name of christmas did she get back from the future?

Ixistant (talk) 18:37, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure if we should mention it. Ask yourself if it's notable. If it is, then add it. if it doesn't add anything to the character significantly or play a role in any major plotline, then it's not notable. Also, I believe that she was approached before the events of Messiah Complex.Luminum (talk) 19:00, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

It was before Messiah Complex, she even states "I need to be here for something later anyhow. The mutants need me." And it was in the article but I removed it because it was such a trivial appearance it seemed more for the fans than anything, at least right now. Ya' never know, it could be a hint to a larger role for Layla in the next generation. Rau's Speak Page 22:24, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

This section is now part of XCell, but I added the fact that since Layla is listed in the Caterpillar files, at least one of her parents must be believed to be superhuman. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cabil (talk • contribs) 19:29, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Return

I'm pretty sure PAD said something like, hey, stop talking about this stuff, at the front of the issues. So shouldn't someone out there be NOT TALKING ABOUT IT here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.91.10.73 (talk) 07:30, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

True enough, but it seems that the general consensus with Wikipedia is to not care. See Wikipedia:Spoiler for more. Deafgeek (talk) 16:04, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Because he asked us not to talk about his very publicly distributed writings we shouldn't? Is there suddenly an information blackout in all forms of communication because it "came from PAD?" Nonsense.Luminum (talk) 22:01, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

And the line between Wikipedia and ED continues to blur... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.114.140.153 (talk) 15:35, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, in truth, even if we disagree with it, not including any info because it spoils the plot would be against Wiki Policies, see Wikipedia:Spoilers. So regardless of the author's intent or desires, this is an encyclopedia which has an obligation to extensively and fully report without bias info and not censor or withhold information.24.190.34.219 (talk) 03:17, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

There appears to be a gap between the last appearance described in this section (Layla being married to Jamie Madrox in Las Vegas) and her appearance in Uncanny X-Men #11 LGY #630 - April 2019. Her appearance in that issue is significant but isn’t described - she is found by Logan/Wolverine to be happily living with her husband Jamie and nursing Davey, her (and presumably Jamie’s) baby. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cwarsaw99 (talk • contribs) 20:31, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

I insist, Layla will bring about the end of the Brand New Day

When Layla meets Spider-Man (and, given how everyone in the Marvel Universe meets Spidey sooner or later, she will), wouldn't her powers undo the events of One More Day?

Wouldn't contact with Layla cause Peter to suddenly remember that he was married to Mary-Jane, that they used to have a daughter, his unsmaking and the death of Harry Osborn?

Does Quesada realize this?

Well, given that Layla's power is to bring back the dead, as recently revealed, that wouldn't work anymore.--RossF18 (talk) 19:03, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, of course that revelation doesn't really explain how Layla was able to restore other people's memories during House of M besides the old ret-conning of her powers explanation so it still wouldn't work.24.190.34.219 (talk) 03:13, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, but the whole House of M powers can always be explained by Scarlet Witch - she's like the ultimate trump card. Whatever wierd happened after M day, they have a ready made reason - oh, it's the result of Scarlet Witch messing with space time. So, for all we know, Scarlet Witch gave her those specific powers just for her role in M day and took them away after M day, leaving her with her memory and restoring life powers. Oh, there's always that secondary mutation explanation. Either way, I think the confusion stems from the fact that many people were tying her ability to "know stuff" with her House of M powers. So, if her "knowing stuff" was an artificial Terminator scenario, there is no telling what that would entail for her House of M powers which she hasn't apparently displayed since M Day. Again, I think many, at least me, thought her knowing stuff was an extension of her House of M powers. If her House of M powers were ret conned away, at what point would that be? Issue 50? When we find out that she doesn't actually have the natural ability to "know stuff"? Well, if that's the case, that kind of says what I'm talking about. Do you have a different point in time when her powers were ret conned away? Just not using her powers in my mind is not ret conning them away. Anyway, I think the key still lies with Scarlet Witch. Was Layla in existence before House of M (I mean, I know she wasn't written yet, but was she out there already in the universe) or was Layla specifically made out of nothing by Scarlet Witch for House of M and then kept existing. That ties into the question of whether Layla visited her younger self before or after M day. If before, well, there are several things that go with that. First, Witch didn't make her just for House of M, and second, was her ability to restore other people's memories an actual power, something Scarlet Witch made to happen, or just a by product of her knowing stuff. If Layla was talking to herself after M day, well, then her powers were either created by Scarlet Witch or she had them all along and they were ret conned away. It's all up in the air so far.--RossF18 (talk) 04:33, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and check this interview out: It explains a lot. --RossF18 (talk) 04:55, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

InfoBox "Abilities" Section and Layla's Knowledge

Please stop removing Layla's knowledge of the past and future from the abilities section. Yes it is not her mutant(?, well we don't know if she's a mutant) power and was given to her artificially... neither of this matters.

First, how the the section appears on the infobox is "Abilities" not "Powers" (yes, when editing it may look like power=, but how it appears on the page is "Abilities" which was an early change in Wiki to accommodate non super comic heroes). Look at any other super hero wiki page, the section does not just list mutant or superhero powers. Iron Man and Dr. Doom both list their power suits and armaments. Iron fist lists "master martial artist", Hawkeye/Ronin lists "grandmaster archer", etc. etc. The section is for any significant attribute that sets them apart in the comics (both from normal humans and other super heroes) and that the character uses on a regular basis. Layla's knowledge although not a mutant ability is still above normal human AND she uses it regularly be it for her own ends or to help X-Factor investigations. Why do we list "master martial artist" or "grandmaster archer" for Iron fist and Hawkeye? Why do we list Iron Man's power suit or Captain America's shield in this section? Because it's something that an average human in the Marvel U can't do or doesn't have access to. Layla's knowledge falls into this category.

Second, whoever removed it on the grounds "not a "power" per definition, but something given to her artificially", how does that matter? There are a ton of other heroes who have been given powers and abilities artificially. I mean, the Hood doesn't have any powers without his cloak, we still list it. Not to mention, Iron Man's suit isn't a "power" per se, hey it's not even an ability, but of course we mention it. The fact is that Layla's knowledge is a significant above human feature (normal characters don't have the ability) that for most of her comic life has been her identifying trait. Not to mention issue #50 stated she was also downloaded with knowledge of the next 80 years so she still has knowledge of upcoming events.

If Spider Man was given his powers by his future self coming back in time and injecting him with a serum, would it make a difference? Of course not, we would still list his abilities. Comic characters receive their abilities and/or powers from many different sources. Layla may not even be a mutant based on past issues, and for all we know, her resurrecting power was given to her as well. Plus, if you want to get technical, we could still even list under a former section her ability to restore people's memories in House of M. Of course the real explanation was that this ability was ret-conned away but it was a power that's not explained by Layla's knowledge injection from her future self (Rogue was even able to absorb the ability to restore other's memories). In fact, we don't even know for sure if future Layla visited her self before or after House of M. 24.190.34.219 (talk) 02:49, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. Planewalker Dave (talk) 06:52, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Agree. See also my above comments in the "I insist, Layla will bring about the end of the Brand New Day" section. Also, see this interview--RossF18 (talk) 04:34, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. Luminum (talk) 10:03, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Butterfly

Please stop removing this info from the lead. It IS her official code name and thus deserves to be there. It based off the Butterfly Effect and in-universe she gets it from Rictor in the first arc (#6). Even if she mostly goes by her real name it doesn't stop it from being her official code name: it's been used in multiple comics not only by Peter David and in X-Factor but by other writers (Kyle & Yost) in other comics (X-Force #26); butterflies are used to represent the character in artwork (the cover to the Layla Miller one-shot); Peter David has used it to refer to Layla in some interviews, it's what Layla uses when she's in the future after Messiah Complex (the character Ruby calls her by her code name, "Butterfly," on two separate occasions [#44] and so does the character Linquon [#50]); but most importantly Marvel uses it occasionally on the recap page at the front of comics over her real name (see X-Factor #230, which you can easily view the recap page of here [1]) and is used on Marvel.com's own character database [2]. I've added some citations I was easily able to verify because I owned the comics and recalled the arcs, but I know there are a few others.Flygongengar (talk) 07:29, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

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