Talk:List of Britpop musicians
- 1 Consensus
- 2 The Real Britpop
- 3 Other names
- 4 A List Divided
- 5 New version
- 6 I don't see how this list of Britpop musicians could not constitute original research...
- 7 Note
- 8 Proposed re-shuffle of bands
- 9 Related bands: Muse?.
- 10 Related bands: David Devant & His Spirit Wife?.
- 11 What about The Verve?
This page really needs to line up (especially the categorization) with the main Britpop article (probably both this page and the Britpop page need to be edited and brought to a meeting point. --Akrabbim 01:58, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
The Real Britpop
The 1st BritPop bands were The Las and The Satyrs from whence the term Britpop came. These bands had folded by 1993. It must be noted that many of the listed bands on this page supported these two bands during this early period, however many are unrecognisable as BritPop. Journalists seem to have become aware of the phenmenon only after Creation Records became involved with Oasis and have also tried to tie BritPop with the Manchester scene. The Music Press regularly dubbed The Las and The Satyrs as regressive, though few , if any, witnessed the genuine public enthusiam for these groups. It is ironic that the two most accomplished writers, Lee Mavers of The Las and Stuart E of The Satyrs, have been overlooked for lesser talents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 23:18, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
Theres a difference between Britpop music (as in bubblegum, poppy sounding) and popular British bands (mainstream, chart topping groups). Placebo, Stereolab, Portishead and Radiohead are not Britpop. Stereolab is French, I don't think Placebo is British, and the last two are not "pop" music, they are experimental. Milk 04:15, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)
This is going to meet with absolute denial i'm sure, but in my world no Britpop list is complete without the Beatles...they transcend time and were an integral part of that cultural movement in the early-mid 90s, despite the fact that they had finished by 1970...and much of Oasis's music derived from them or referenced them. The Beatles are in fact the very best Britpop band, in my view. They fit right in. Let's make the gesture and put them on the list as a transcendent towering influence without whom Britpop as we know it would not have been possible. Plus the fact that we were waiting for the 60s to happen again and Britpop delivered, and the Beatles were what was missing; Oasis just tried to fill in that gap. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 19:14, 21 July 2008 (UTC)user: cleartonal 22 July 2008
- Stereolab aren't French, they have one French member, used to have a second and also featured an Australian, but are basically a British group and are based in Britain. Bonalaw 14:55, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- This doesn't mean they are "Britpop" though. They really aren't, but neither is the majority of the stuff on this list. --Sachabrunel 19:34, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
- I wouldn't call Britpop "bubblegum, poppy sounding". It's hard to describe in a nutshell but that certainly isn't right. Consider Oasis, the epitome of Britpop - are they "bubblegum"? no way. However there are a lot of contentious inclusions on this list, that's for sure. David Gray???? I mean come on - I think we ought to make sure we know what we mean by Britpop before just throwing artistes willy-nilly into the list because they are British, and perform pop. To my mind Britpop is a particular style of guitar-based band music which was quite prominent in the 1990s, i.e. Blur, Oasis - so before anyone feesl like extending this list please check out the Britpop article and make sure you know what you're talking about! Graham 05:12, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Graham - I'd agree with you, and I've been working on the list of Britpop bands and the Britpop page to this end. I've tried to add lots of the early (These Animal Men, S*M*A*S*H) and lesser (Marion, My Life Story) Britpop bands. I've deleted lots of non-Britpop bands (my favourite was Marillion!) and have been using 2000 as a cut-off date (so Graham Coxon's later solo albums got deleted) Any comments on the list as it stands?
'A' definitely don't belong there. Not only are they not Britpop, the album linked to is from 2002.
Can I offer up Garbage and Skunk Anansie as Britpop bands or at least bands strongly associated with Britpop at the time. Also what about including some of the one hit wonders. White town etc. El Daniel.
The Audience (when Sophie Ellis Bextor was an unknown singer...) The Bluetones Catatonia Geneva Kinky Machine The Lightning Seeds (like Saint Etienne, more electronic than the others but take a look at «lucky you» or «what if») Me Me Me (Blur's Alex's other band) Primal Scream (the «screamadelica» phase) Rialto Space Saladd ?
Please do add theses names to the list. I'm a big Britpop fan and would certainly like that information on this magic musical moment would be available with quality, on the internet. Next year, we should be celebrating 10 years since the greatest Britpop year, mythical 1995.
Carlos, from Portugal.
Ok, in answer:
The Audience = from 1998, too late to be really Britpop. The Bluetones = Fair enough. Catatonia = Were around in 1995, so fair enough. Geneva = Not sure, just about within the timeframe but different sound. Kinky Machine = Not sure who they are, sorry. The Lightning Seeds = Been around since 80s making similar music so not sure on this again. Me Me Me = Absolutely. Primal Scream (screamadelica) = Not at all, way too early. Rialto = A little late, but yes on balance. Space = Also a little late, but yes on balance. Salad = Absolutely. This is the kind of band that should be here. --Sachabrunel 19:39, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
A List Divided
While I don't agree with the claims that Britpop is dead I think it's important to mention artists that are heavily influenced by Britpop. So maybe there should be a division of 1st generation and 2nd generation artists. Thoughts? Tastywheat 18:28, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
Britpop does not equal "british pop," it was a pretty short-lived genre of the mid 90s only. About 65% of these bands shouldn't be in the main list at all. Breaking it up may work. --Sachabrunel 19:33, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Manic Street Preachers can't possibly be classified as Britpop, not that it isn't British and not that it isn't pop, but it simply doesn't fit in with the kind of music Blur and Pulp and Suede make. --18.104.22.168 15:57, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
But Everything Must Go and Design for life were massive Britpop albums and songs respectively. SouthEastLad 09:22, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
I've just weeded out a lot of bands which I consider to be "not Britpop". In most cases I've given a detailed explanation. I've also, in the interests of sanity, narrowed the criteria down to genuine Britpop bands - which means they must be British. Britpop influenced bands from other countries can go elsewhere, otherwise the list just becomes jumbled nonsense.
That said, I still fear that the list isn't worth the trouble, and that it's serving as a link farm for people's favourite bands. There's also the problem that Britpop might mean something different to me (a Brit who was there) than it does to you (in, say, America). With that in mind, I have listed it for deletion. So far it's a 50/50 (which would mean the list would be kept) but if you want to have your say, either way, please follow the link provided at the top of the article. --kingboyk 02:27, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
I think this list looks like surviving the vote so here's what I think should be in here, and these only:
- 60 Foot Dolls
- The Boo Radleys
- The Bluetones
- The Divine Comedy
- Dodgy (band)
- The Gyres
- Heavy Stereo
- The Longpigs
- Northern Uproar
- Ocean Colour Scene
- The Real People
- Shed Seven
- These Animal Men
We need to get away from the use of 'Britpop' to mean 'Indie' or even 'Britpop-like' - it wasn't so much a musical genre as a cultural movement. Nothing from after 1998 should be in here at all. Ditto before 1993. --Sachabrunel 17:16, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
- In terms of inclusions, can't argue too much with that. There's a couple I would question but not enough to go ahead and remove them. I haven't checked what you've excluded. --kingboyk 18:55, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
- Ash and The Divine Comedy are from Northern Ireland, which is part of the United Kingdom, NOT Britain, so shouldn't really be included.
I've categorised everything, and put back a couple - Laxton's Superb and Thurman. I remember these getting a fair amount of press at the time and often on tour supporting the more established acts. As for Robbie, Britop-related is fair enough I'd say. Anyone have any comments please feel free to discuss here. --Sachabrunel 19:57, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
- Just checked by to see how this article was doing after it survived AFD. "A lot better" is the happy answer! Good work. --kingboyk 17:56, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't see how this list of Britpop musicians could not constitute original research...
Since as a music genre, there's no standard accepted definition of what Britpop is, I can't see how this unreferenced article could not constitute a completely unverifiable piece of original research. Maybe if it could be referenced that each of these artists had been called 'Britpop' it'd be better, but who's gonna bother to do that?--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 21:36, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
- This may be the case, however if you read the above discussion this page is a compromise created by a failed VFD. Also you could say the same of any music genre. Sachabrunel 09:20, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
- Agree, but it was kept at AfD (wrongly, but it was kept). Take my word for it though that the list is at least now relatively sane... --kingboyk (talk) 00:09, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
How on earth do you consider that this would constitute "original research"? There are some pop groups such as Blur or Oasis who have long been regarded as "britpop". ACEOREVIVED (talk) 18:26, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
This page will, I suspect, never conform to the stricter definitions of what is verifiable. On the other hand it is fairly useful, and for this reason survived a VFD, which I expect it would again. The problem is that everyone keeps adding their favourite bands to the list. I haven't got time to check out the claim in each case, so have deleted a few entries that have no information to back them up. With this in mind, please note the following points before you add to this page-
1. Britpop was a scene that existed in the UK, particularly Camden, from around 1994-97. Most British bands of the time were not involved in it. Reef are not Britpop, nor are Simply Red. The list we have in the first section is pretty much comprehensive already - if you want to add to it then please explain yourself. 2. Act that are connected to Britpop - this doesn't mean 'guitar bands who were in the UK in the nineties' - it means what it says. 3. Acts with a "Britpop sound" - I don't like this section, but I suppose it should stay for reasons of diplomacy. 4. As for sources, ideally this will happen if and when the NME, Select, Melody Maker, etc put their 1995 issues online in some form. The word has been bandied about so much of late that it's beginning to lose all meaning - for this reason I can't tink of any post-2000 sources that would cut it. Bienfuxia (talk) 13:58, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
- Ah, someone's deleted the 'Britpop sound' section. Can't say I mind. Bienfuxia (talk) 14:02, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Proposed re-shuffle of bands
1. The whole first wave, second wave is by nature very arbitary. What sources define the second wave as bands who released an album in late 1996? John Harris has a broader definition of Britpop (he suggests Suede's first album as the start and Pulp's This Is Hardcore as its finish) other sources suggest 1993-97 (e.g. AMG http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:2681 ),
2. i) There are some bands which I think there can be some general concensus that they were Britpop bands. First tier -- Blur, Oasis, Pulp, Ash, Supergrass, Elastica. Second tier -- Gene, Echobelly, Menswear,Longpigs, Marion, Sleeper. Third tier -- Powder, Northern Uproar, These Animal Men etc. I don't believe Thurman are notable (neither album or singles made top 40. Their whole entry smacks of a fanpage) or The Real People belong (no albums charted, they were more an influence on the scene).
ii) Powder could be a borderline case. They only released three singles and no proper album yet they gained infamy and column inches largely thanks to their singer Pearl Lowe.
3. I would suggest a possible test of inclusion could be whether the artist released an alternative pop/rock album in the 1993-97 period which made the UK top 40 or have been identified (Live Forever, The Last Party, AMG) as impacting significiently to the genre.
a) If Divine Comedy (whose orchestral pop sound deviates from the guitar pop/rock sound of the others in this list) is included in the initial list then so should My Life Story (first album released in 1995. Top 40 second album in 1997. Several Top 40 singles, very British centric lyrics).
- 1. Granted, yes. The reason it was organised like this was to include borderline cases who came along slightly after the event - 96 and onwards. Remember that this whole page is a compromise.
- It's a hard one. I would've thought though that including bands which released an album at any time during 1996 would be a bit more logical than first half of 1996. It's easier to verify via copyright/album covers years opposed to half years.
- 2. The distinction here really is that these bands toured with the big britpop names and are therefore linked to them. Thurman are largely forgotten now, but were promoted side by side with Oasis as the two next big things at the time. Powder are, far from being a borderline case, perhaps the epitome of a britpop band. They appeared on the Britpop Now tv special, they were on Parkaway records, Pearl was the girlfriend of Danny Goffey from Supergrass, they toured with Pulp, Sleeper and Blur, they wore Blur-style sportswear and they only released singles in 1995.... how more Britpop can you get than that? The point here isn't "are they notable" (which they have to be to be on Wikipedia in the first place) it's "were they part of the Britpop scene?" - how obscure they are is of no relevance at all. I'm not particularly aware of The Real People, but they seem to have a reasonable case for inclusion.
- Inclined to agree about Powder. They and Menswear are pretty much the definition of Britpop. I really don't know Thurman but will keep an eye out in my research.
- 3. John Harris might have appointed himself as the official historian of Britpop, but lots of people don't agree with his analysis at all. Live Forever is a bit of an oddity too - while it contains some good interviews the film-makers don't seem to have any more that a vague knowledge of the subject. Sorry, personal bugbears and the like there. The best sources would be the NME and Select magazine from 94-96, unfortunately not available online, it seems. As for MLS, you have a case there. As I said before, the whole list is a slightly messy compromise which has to be constantly pruned of people's favourite bands. I'd like it to be simply the first section myself, or perhaps even have the whole article deleted, but unfortunately neither of those seem possible.
- I'd like to see more references too, for this and the main Britpop article as Harris is the main source there, it would be good to get some of his sources. I'm doing some research and will be going through magazines of the time and will try and get references from the era. Live Forever was a brief summary of the whole scene (blink and you'll miss it for most bands).
- 4. Brilliant. Love it. Put it in! Bienfuxia (talk) 14:59, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
- They aren't. It's been removed. Anyone else want to help out with the endless task of removing clutter? Bienfuxia (talk) 18:58, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
Related bands: David Devant & His Spirit Wife?.
Don't know why they keep getting removed - their sound (Example "Lie Detector") is as Britpop as Menswear. Just because they did a bit of performance art doesn't mean they can't be included.
Should The Verve be classified here? I did not see them mentioned in any of the lists here, but I had always taken them to be a group who were often considered to be a Britpop group. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 23:31, 14 August 2012 (UTC)