Talk:MV Apollo
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Requested move 1 March 2021
[edit]- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) -- Calidum 04:08, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
MV Apollo → MV Apollo (Canadian ferry) – Not a proper WP:PRIMARYTOPIC when considering the former headquarters of the Church of Scientology, which was the founding flagship of the Sea Org and the personal residence of L. Ron Hubbard, and had been previously known as HMS Royal Scotsman. Both of the ships were built as ferries, so "(ferry)" by itself is insufficient as a disambiguator. The lead highlights the ship's use in Canada, although it was first registered in Sweden. I am open to alternative suggestions, as I am not very familiar with the Wikipedia naming convention for ships. — BarrelProof (talk) 01:53, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
- Oppose per WP:OVERPRECISION. There is no other article using the title, and there is already a hatnote pointing to the Royal Scotsman that serves the rare misguided reader exactly as well as an unnecessary dab page would. Station1 (talk) 22:40, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
- Personally, I think the HMS Royal Scotsman is more notable as the MV Apollo than as the Royal Scotsman, due to the historical importance of the connection to the Church of Scientology. But regardless of whether that article is actually moved or not, we disambiguate topics, not title matches – e.g., the typical example of Hurricane. That name isn't the name of an article. — BarrelProof (talk) 23:50, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
- Yes, but when there is no title conflict, like here, we can disambiguate topics by using hatnotes. They serve the same purpose as a dab page, without inconveniencing anyone. Station1 (talk) 00:54, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
- That seems rather different from what the guidelines say. The guidelines say that "if an ambiguous term has no primary topic, then that term needs to lead to a disambiguation page". If the term "MV Apollo" has a primary topic, I suspect that it is the Scientology topic that is primary (even if the title of the other article is different, as with "Hurricane"). If the term has no primary topic, the term should lead to a dab page, regardless of what titles are used for the articles in question. — BarrelProof (talk) 05:02, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
- But how would a dab page actually benefit anyone? I see it only forcing people who want this ship to go through an extra page. If you were proposing a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT, like hurricane, this would be a different conversation. Station1 (talk) 17:18, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
- That seems rather different from what the guidelines say. The guidelines say that "if an ambiguous term has no primary topic, then that term needs to lead to a disambiguation page". If the term "MV Apollo" has a primary topic, I suspect that it is the Scientology topic that is primary (even if the title of the other article is different, as with "Hurricane"). If the term has no primary topic, the term should lead to a dab page, regardless of what titles are used for the articles in question. — BarrelProof (talk) 05:02, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
- Yes, but when there is no title conflict, like here, we can disambiguate topics by using hatnotes. They serve the same purpose as a dab page, without inconveniencing anyone. Station1 (talk) 00:54, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
- Personally, I think the HMS Royal Scotsman is more notable as the MV Apollo than as the Royal Scotsman, due to the historical importance of the connection to the Church of Scientology. But regardless of whether that article is actually moved or not, we disambiguate topics, not title matches – e.g., the typical example of Hurricane. That name isn't the name of an article. — BarrelProof (talk) 23:50, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
- Technically, the ferry was not owned by Canada like their warships are, only operated in Canada as the vessel has operated in several locations. Therefore MV Apollo (ferry) would be a better title if you needed to disambiguate. Llammakey (talk) 01:08, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
- Both ships were ferries, so "(ferry)" does not disambiguate. — BarrelProof (talk) 04:52, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
- Then it has to be by date. As in MV Apollo (1995 ferry), though I cannot see where the other Apollo was a ferry in the article. Royal Scotsman was a ferry. Apollo was just a accomodations ship. Because Canadian is a non-starter. Llammakey (talk) 11:05, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
- Oh, I see. The Scientology ship was not a ferry when it was called Apollo, but it was a ferry at a previous point in its history when it was called Royal Scotsman. If that is not considered an issue, then MV Apollo (ferry) would be OK. — BarrelProof (talk) 16:59, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
- Was the ship even called MV Apollo? I see references to the ship being called Apollo but I can't find any that say "MV Apollo". Station1 (talk) 17:18, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
- You can find a use of the term in the Hubbard Communications Office Bulletins here. — BarrelProof (talk) 01:01, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
- Was the ship even called MV Apollo? I see references to the ship being called Apollo but I can't find any that say "MV Apollo". Station1 (talk) 17:18, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
- Oh, I see. The Scientology ship was not a ferry when it was called Apollo, but it was a ferry at a previous point in its history when it was called Royal Scotsman. If that is not considered an issue, then MV Apollo (ferry) would be OK. — BarrelProof (talk) 16:59, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
- Then it has to be by date. As in MV Apollo (1995 ferry), though I cannot see where the other Apollo was a ferry in the article. Royal Scotsman was a ferry. Apollo was just a accomodations ship. Because Canadian is a non-starter. Llammakey (talk) 11:05, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
- Both ships were ferries, so "(ferry)" does not disambiguate. — BarrelProof (talk) 04:52, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
- Oppose both should just be dabbed by date. I favour using the year it was first called by that name if it was not the name when launched but other editors prefer year of launch regardless. Miramar has about 100 ships named Apollo and there are multiple other MV Apollos which we do not currently have articles for. Lyndaship (talk) 11:16, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
- Oppose as per @Station1. Unless HMS Royal Scotsman is moved, there is nothing to disambiguate. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 04:11, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
Who owned this boat
[edit]Does anyone know who exactly owned the boat between 1973 and 1976 Mymy109 (talk) 16:33, 20 March 2024 (UTC)