Talk:Mindfulness (psychology)

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The section, "Elevation_of_positive_emotions_and_outcomes", misrepresents the work of Shao (2009). Current text reads, "He found that a stronger positive association for women than for men."

However, the Shao's article says, "Our findings show that mindfulness was not associated with performance either as a bivariate correlation or when controlling for other predictors. We found, however, that mindfulness and gender interacted to predict performance. Specifically, mindfulness was positively related to performance for women but not men." Source: Shao, R.P. & Skarlicki, D.P. 2009 "The role of mindfulness in predicting individual performance" Canadian Journal of Behavioural Science, volume 41, number 4, page 198.

45 women participated in this study.

I suggest we change the text to, "He found mindfulness was positively related to performance for women."

Martinangel (talk) 18:03, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

five types of Zen[edit]

This piece,

Although Buddhist meditation techniques originated as spiritual practices, they have a long history of secular applications. For instance, the Tang Dynasty Chan (Japanese Zen) and Huayan scholar-monk Zongmi (780-841) listed "Five Types of Meditation", the first of which is for fanfu (Japanese bompu) 凡夫 "ordinary people". Philip Kapleau explains:

Bompu Zen, being free from any philosophic or religious content, is for anybody and everybody. It is a Zen practiced purely in the belief that it can improve both physical and mental health. Since it can almost certainly have no ill effects, anyone can undertake it, whatever religious beliefs they happen to hold or if they hold none at all. Bompu Zen is bound to eliminate sickness of a psychosomatic nature and to improve the health generally. (1989:49)

is about the five types of Zen, not about mindfulness in psychology. I have removed this section from the page. A more appropriate place for this information would be (and is) Guifeng Zongmi or Buddhist meditation.

Also, after a recent edit, the first sentence of the blockquoted section above is now redundant. makeswell (talk) 15:31, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Are there no critiques of the concept of mindfulness that could be included?Alnpete (talk) 07:59, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Criticism by Wallace[edit]

Hi, I found the criticism quote by Wallace difficult to understand. The use of ellipses in the quotation takes what may be a coherent argument, and make it seem like that of an uneducated person. I suggest removing the quote, as it already has too much space for what is, namely a disputed, and not necessarily relevant (that is Mindfulness is as much what is taught now, as what was taught a few hundred years after Buddha died) opinion. Any objections, suggestions? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 08:25, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Psychological mindedness[edit]

there looks to be an overlap with psychological mindedness--Penbat (talk) 18:23, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Khoury meta-analysis[edit]

Says on page 770: "Our meta-analysis only included mindfulness meditation protocols, limiting the scope of the results to this particular practice." TimidGuy (talk) 11:09, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Says on page 764: "Studies were excluded if they (1) did not include a mindfulness meditation based intervention." And "The meta-analysis excluded studies that examined mindfulness as part of another treatment, such as cognitive behavior protocol, because it was dif!cult to dissociate the effect of mindfulness fromother components." TimidGuy (talk) 11:14, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Sure. But since the authors chose to characterize their overall analysis as being relevant to MBT ("our results showed that MBT is moderately to largely effective", and in the very article title), it's best not to reinterpret this here based on their protocol selection. Alexbrn talk|contribs|COI 11:16, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
Oh - you reverted without discussion. Alexbrn talk|contribs|COI 11:19, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
I don't see how it's an interpretation. They explicitly only included studies on mindfulness meditation and explicitly excluded mindfulness-based cognitive therapy. It just seems like it's clearer to refer to it as a meta-analysis on mindfulness meditation rather than on mindfulness-based therapy. TimidGuy (talk) 11:24, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
It's not what the paper concluded. (Add) Specifically you've made it look like the "it" here refers to meditation, when the authors state their conclusion in respect of MBT. Alexbrn talk|contribs|COI 11:31, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
(Add) I've expanded this with some content from the article body and added a DARE commentary. Alexbrn talk|contribs|COI 12:20, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── TimidGuy you keep inserting that this study is specific to meditation. Whatever the paper means by the stuff you've quoted, it does not mean it was confined to meditation studies only. Look at Appendix B, or read the DARE summary: "In the included studies, a variety of mindfulness therapies were used, including mindfulness-based awareness processes, stress reduction, cognitive therapy, relapse prevention and yoga." Alexbrn talk|contribs|COI 14:17, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

I sure don't know how else to interpret this: "Our meta-analysis only included mindfulness meditation protocols, limiting the scope of the results to this particular practice." Can you give me the bibliographic citation for Appendix B, please? Thanks. TimidGuy (talk) 16:01, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
Since the appendix wasn't part of the published study, I emailed Khoury and requested it. I received a very kind and interesting reply. Will share tomorrow. TimidGuy (talk) 19:13, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
It's published online as supplemental material (via Sciencedirect). Alexbrn talk|contribs|COI 19:35, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I told Dr. Khoury we were discussing how to characterize it and that I had referred to it as a meta-analysis of studies on mindfulness meditation. He said my characterization was "exact." Nevertheless, now that I'm more familiar with the studies, I do think we'd want to alter the wording of my most recent edit (which was deleted). All 209 studies include mindfulness meditation as a central component, including those studies for which it's not obvious from the title, such as the ones on mindfulness-based awareness processes, stress reduction, cognitive therapy, relapse prevention and yoga. It seems important to clarify this, since "mindfulness-based therapies" is a more general term that could include therapies that don't entail mindfulness meditation. One reason I mention this clarification is that ultimately I think we should move all of the research on specific techniques out of this article and into the articles for particular techniques or therapies. My understanding is that mindfulness is a state of awareness, and I feel it's separate from the techniques that are used to cultivate mindfulness. In fact, I saw one study which found a correlation between mindfulness and positive benefits in which the subjects didn't use any mindfulness therapy at all. They were simply assessed as naturally having a more mindful awareness. We would retain in this article the research on defining and characterizing and assessing the mindful state. So far these reasons, I propose we restore a modified version of the phrase that specifies the inclusion criterion for this meta-analysis. TimidGuy (talk) 10:56, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
It's not mentioned as a conclusion and the DARE summary didn't pick up on it, so why should Wikipedia? - there are lots of incidental things that could be picked up on. I am concerned about the "meditation" word being unduly shoehorned in because of editor interest, rather than due support in the source. Maybe ask at WT:MED? Alexbrn talk|contribs|COI 11:12, 8 April 2014 (UTC)


I have removed the interwikis and have transferred them to my workpage (they are also in the page history of this page). They will be installed on Wikidata as soon as possible. – Paine Ellsworth CLIMAX! 23:41, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Mindfulness (positive psychology) and Mindfulness meditation[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The discussion was undecided, with equal numbers of supporters and opponents. There's no agreement on the terms being used,a nd whether or not they overlap. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 04:53, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Same topic Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:45, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

@Joshua Jonathan: I agree with your proposal to merge the articles Mindfulness meditation and Mindfulness (positive psychology) into Mindfulness (psychology). I think Mindfulness-based stress reduction should be merged into it too, and will add a notice there. I will edit the tags you created so Discuss all point to this section, as recommended by Help:Merging: "(1) Create one discussion section, typically on the destination article's talk page; (2) Tag each article with the appropriate merger tag. All tag Discuss links should be specified to point at the new discussion section." - Thanks; LeoRomero (talk) 01:21, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
I think you make a great point Leo. I have not merged an article on wikipedia as of yet so I will try tagging each article with the appropriate merger tags if you have not done so by then. --User:Ebbyabate1 Ebbyabate1 (talk) 04:17, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
@Ebbyabate1: Thanks! I think I got the tags, but do please have at 'em. Rock on Positive Psychologists! LeoRomero (talk) 12:24, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Leo, I am sort of new with using wikipedia so I appreciate your help! --User: Ebbyabate1Ebbyabate1 (talk) 04:41, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
@Ebbyabate1: Nonono Thank YOU. You do good work here, and your welcoming my help contributes much to my subjective well-being. - To yours! LeoRomero (talk) 05:03, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
I'd prefer to keep Mindfulness-based stress reduction as a separate article, since it has its own discourse (althiugh it's closely connected to mindfulness (psy)). Succes with the tagging! Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:38, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
Mindfulness is a state, and mindfulness meditation is one way of cultivating that state. The two are different. It's possible for a person to experience mindfulness without practicing any particular technique. I've seen a study on naturally occurring mindfulness. I do think our mindfulness articles should be reorganized, but I'd rather keep the concept of mindfulness and techniques for culturing mindfulness separate. TimidGuy (talk) 10:52, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
@Joshua Jonathan: Heya! Re your deletion (diff) of the line I pinched from TimidGuy, which part/s need/s sourcing? - Thanks; LeoRomero (talk) 05:19, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
@Joshua Jonathan: Nevermind, I just saw your note in the section below. Lemme see if I can source. 05:23, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
@Joshua Jonathan: (1) Before I get lost in the haystack, are you looking for credible sources that establish a difference between mindfulness and mindfulness meditation? T.i, you want citations for TimidGuy's statement that "Mindfulness is a state, and mindfulness meditation is one way of cultivating that state"? (2) Do you have citations that say they're the same? I'm guessing not, but I should be sure of that before I go looking. (This is not a priority for me, btw, but it's on my list). - Thanks again; LeoRomero (talk) 05:36, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
@Joshua Jonathan: @TimidGuy: @Ebbyabate1: This is not a citation, but a clarification which I stumbled upon while rereading the Mindfulness (positive psychology) Article that Ebbyabate1 created. The Langer referred to here is the so-called "Mother of Mindfulness": "While Dr. Langer conducted some of the earliest research on meditation, her work has focused mainly on mindfulness without meditation." I hope this helps clarify somewhat that the two things are different.
The "problem" stays the same: "mindfulness meditation" is a WP:FORK, I think. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 10:35, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
I don't see that you've addressed my point. Mindfulness is a state of awareness, a state that can be experienced by someone who has never meditated. It can be experienced outside of meditation, and in meditation. Mindfulness meditation is a means of systematically cultivating that state of awareness, such that one gradually becomes more mindful in daily life. Researchers have scientifically described what mindfulness is, using standardized assessments. Researchers now have a large body of studies on the effects of mindfulness meditation. Please tell me why you think they're the same topic. TimidGuy (talk) 16:06, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I've explained before. It's up to you to come up with WP:RS which make this distinction. Otherwise it's your personal understanding, which is WP:OR. Sorry; the insight may be correct, but Wikipedia is based on WP:RS, not on our personal insights. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 17:27, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

See, for example.[1] This article explains that mindfulness can be practiced inside or outside of meditation.[2] TimidGuy (talk) 11:22, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
"There is a difference between mindfulness meditation and simple mindfulness."[3] TimidGuy (talk) 14:38, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
Joshua Jonathan I made the distinction between mindfulness and mindfulness meditation citing 2 of TimidGuy's 3 sources. diff - Thanks; LeoRomero (talk) 23:44, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
Thanks TimidGuy for taking these efforts! Nevertheless, I'm not convinced; midnfullness as described in those articles is still mindifullness as described in "Mindfullness (psychology)", the same topic as basically covered now in "Mindfullness (meditation)", while the Wiki-article on "Mindfullness" covers the meditation aspects. Apart from that, there is also WP:COMMONNAME, and something like the introduction/invention of new terms by Wikipedia, as is the case with "Mindfullness (meditation)". So I still think that the "Mindfullness (meditation)" article is a WP:FORK, despite the very good intentions. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:32, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
Yes, it's the same mindfulness. But the articles make the point that the mental state of mindfulness is different from the practice of cultivating that state via mindfulness meditation, hence separate articles. We shouldn't mush together the two topics, especially since there are two different bodies of research. One body of research revolves around characterizing this state of awareness. The other revolves around the effects, both neurophysiological and clinical, of the practice of mindfulness meditation. The WP article on Mindfulness is related to Buddhism, whereas Mindfulness meditation is a secular practice. As the New York Times says, "There is a difference between mindfulness meditation and simple mindfulness." Regarding Common Name, the term "mindfulness meditation" is indeed a common name. A search on the exact phrase in Google brings up 540,000 results, in Google Books, 54,700 results, in Google Scholar, 16,300 results. And by the way, I think some of the content in Mindfulness (psychology) belongs in the Mindfulness meditation article. Mindfulness (psychology) should only be about the scientific description and assessment of mindfulness awareness. TimidGuy (talk) 10:43, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
Joshua Jonathan, I think WP:FORK refers to copying (with some modification) material from WP to a place other than WP. So I don't think Mindfulness meditation is a fork. Am I misreading the article? (That's been known to happen). TimidGuy, re "some of the content in Mindfulness (psychology) belongs in the Mindfulness meditation article", I got the same notion while editing the current Mindfulness (psychology). Maybe you could copy the relevant bits into Mindfulness meditation, and continue to build on what you started? If you focus on Mindfulness meditation, I'll focus on mindfulness without meditation on Mindfulness (psychology). I'd like to see if we can make both of them "Perfect Articles", and hold off on merging until we're done. Thoughts? - Thanks again; LeoRomero (talk) 22:38, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, Leo. That sounds like a good next step. In copying the "relevant bits" to the Mindfulness meditation article, should I also at the same time remove them here? TimidGuy (talk) 10:47, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
@TimidGuy: I'd like to keep them here for now, if you don't mind. We might want to do stuff like later. - TYA; LeoRomero (talk) 12:08, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I've now copied the material about research on the effects of mindfulness meditation to the Mindfulness meditation article. TimidGuy (talk) 11:10, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Copying info from "Mindfulnees (psychology)" has extended "MM", but not generated substantial differences. So far, only TimidGuy seems to object to the proposed merger, so I'll go ahead and merge them. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 11:03, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Above LeoRomero agrees there should be separate articles, and here[4] A1candidate opposes the merge. We shouldn't merge as long as three editors aren't supporting it. I do, however, still feel like the mindfulness-related articles could be reorganized. TimidGuy (talk) 11:11, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
You've got a point there. I'm still waiting for the convincing sources on the distinction you make between "mindfulness" and "mindfulness meditation". @Dorje108: @Tengu800: @JimRenge: @Aoidh: @Suddha: could you give your opinions please? Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 18:20, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
I'd like to repeat that "mindfulness as a state" is covered by Sati, which redirects to Mindfulness, by Wakefulness, and maybe also by Jhana, especially the first jhana, while "mindfulness meditation" is also covered by Mindfulness, and by Mindfulness (psychology), Satipatthana and Bhavana, and maybe also Samatha [5]. If mindfulness is to described as a state of consciousness (itself an outdated concept), which is different from "mindfulness meditation", then you should start an article on "Mindfulness (state of consciousness)", not duplicate existing articles. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:42, 10 May 2014 (UTC)


Having gone through most pages related to mindfulness, and after creating a sidebar, it's clear that "mindfulness (meditation)" is covered by Mindfulness (psychology), Satipatthana and Anapanasati. Its also clear that "mindfulness meditation" is a synonym for "mindfulness (psychology)". The argument that "mindfulness (meditation)" is different from "mindfulness (state)" is still not conclusively covered by WP:RS, and even it were, should result in a separate page on "mindfulness (state)", not on a fourth page on mindfulness-practice. Therefor, I've changed "Mindfulness (meditation)" into a disambiguation-page, and reworked Mindfulness into an overview-page, with links to both the Buddhist and the psychological use. Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 08:40, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

I've finally read the NYT article. Interesting, and very recognizable. What Schwarz calls here "mindfulness", paying attention, "aandacht", wakefulness, is arguably a common human capacity, which may be differentiated from "mindfulness meditation". But that does not change the fact that "mindfulness meditation", in both its Buddhist and western forms, is already described in several Wiki-articles, as mentioned above. No need to duplicate those articles in a separate article on "Mindfulness meditation". I've provided now an overview at Mindfulness, a sidebar, and a category Category:Mindfulness; that should suffice. Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 20:33, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Joshua Jonathan. There is no need for a separate "mindfulness meditation" article.VictoriaGrayson (talk) 19:46, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Mindfulness (psychology) should cover the scientific characterizations of the state of awareness termed mindfulness.. One can experience mindfulness apart from meditation. Mindfulness meditation is a technique for cultivating a state of mindfulness. Therefore, the topics are different. "Mindfulness meditation" is the most common term to refer to this type of meditation, more common nowadays than other terms such as vipassana. The material in the articles does need to be reorganized. Some of the material in Mindfulness (psychology), for example, needs to be moved to Mindfulness meditation. And I agree that some reorganization of mindfulness-related articles needs to take place. But we need separate articles on mindfulness (psychology) and mindfulness meditation. Mindfulness meditation is now one of the two most popular forms of meditation in the US. There's a huge amount of scientific research being done on it. It was a cover story in Time magazine a few months ago. And the term used is "mindfulness meditation." It would be extremely odd not to have a mindfulness meditation article. TimidGuy (talk) 10:10, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
We could consider merging "Mindfulness meditation" with "Mindfulness-based stress reduction" under the more general term. TimidGuy (talk) 10:16, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
The fact that Times Magazine uses the term "mindfulness meditation" does not mean that there should separate articles. "Mindfulness" and "mindfulness meditation" are synonym in common usage, with "mindfulness" being the most used term. A lot of people are still set back by the term "meditation"... If you think that mindfulness as a state deserves a separate article, then you should create an article on "Mindfulness (state)" - or simply add a section to the Mindfulness-article. I'm still waiting for your WP:RS which underscores your WP:OR. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 11:18, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Proposal to merge Mindfulness-based stress reduction here[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The result of this discussion was not to merge. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 04:54, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

There is a tag on Mindfulness-based stress reduction (MBSR) linking to this discussion. The tag suggests Mindfulness-based stress reduction be merged with Mindfulness (psychology), but I don't see any discussion of that specific merge since the date of the tag, which is June 2014. I would disagree that the MBSR article be merged with the general mindfulness article, since MBSR is a particular program with wide notoriety. MBSR is a customized adaption of the principles of mindfulness. Mrtea (talk) 01:08, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

I agree that they should not be merged. MBSR is widely referred to in the professional psychological literature as but one among a wide variety of mindfulness interventions in psychology, which include such things as Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy (MBCT), Action and Commitment Therapy (ACT), etc. Regardless of whether or not the word mindfulness is being used differently in Buddhism and in psychology, it seems to me to be a no-brainer that these should be kept separate. Each has a large literature and could easily meet notability criteria. --Presearch (talk) 03:13, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
I agree too with Mrtea and Presearch. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:14, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
I agree the articles should not be merged. MBSR is a specific program. - Dorje108 (talk) 03:08, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Template removed. Thank you everyone for your comments. I've removed the merge template from MBSR per the consensus here, and it looks like it was placed there erroneously anyway. --Mrtea (talk) 05:18, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

I've also removed the template from this page. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 08:02, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Reorganization of mindfulness articles[edit]

Here's what I've proposed before:

  • Mindfulness
  • Mindfulness (Buddhism)
  • Mindfulness meditation
  • Mindfulness-based stress release
  • Mindfulness-based cognitive therapy
  • Mindfulness-based relapse prevention (this would be a new article on a major area of research)

The current Mindfulness article would become "Mindfulness (Buddhism)", the current "Mindfulness (psychology)" and "Mindfulness (positive psychology) articles would become "Mindfulness." The "Mindfulness meditation" article should comprise content that's now a bit haphazardly spread among other articles and should focus on the secular practice, including the burgeoning body of research and popular interest. All of these secular mindfulness therapies have separate bodies of research. TimidGuy (talk) 10:51, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

@TimidGuy: Hi5! But you tell the Buddhists what you plan to do. I may be crazy-bold, but I ain't goin up against The Buddha dude! (PS: I suggest you move these brilliant suggestions of yours to this Talk section that Joshua Jonathan set up, to keep all relevant comments in one place, but that's totly up to you). LeoRomero (talk) 12:38, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
"The Buddha dude"... - that's a great name! Put's it all back into the right perspective. But seriously, as far as I can see there's no base (=WP:RS or WP:COMMONNAME) for this differentiation between "mindfulness" and "mindfulness (meditation)". What's more, what's being described in m(m) is the same as m(p). Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 13:01, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
@Joshua Jonathan: lolz! I shoulda put a comma between "The Buddha" and "dude" (punctuation is SO important), but thank God you're a Buddhist and saw humor in my mistake. I think I should focus on improving this article, and leave it up to you all what you want to merge, rename, or not. Have fun though! (Seriously) - Thanks; LeoRomero (talk) 13:28, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
I generally agree with this proposal, though I would break it down slightly differently. Generally, I agree that the current "Mindfulness" article should be moved to "Mindfulness (Buddhism)"; and the article "Mindfulness" should be a general overview of the topic. But I would suggest also breaking out "Mindfulness (Psychology)" as a separate topic. I would leave the main article to provide and overview of all of the different usages of the term mindfulness. So I would suggest the following outline (though the previous outline is also acceptable to me):
  • Mindfulness
    • Mindfulness (Psychology)
    • Mindfulness (Buddhism)
    • Mindfulness meditation
    • Mindfulness-based stress release
    • Mindfulness-based cognitive therapy
    • Mindfulness-based relapse prevention (this would be a new article on a major area of research)
Best regards, Dorje108 (talk) 16:17, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Discussion of Khoury meta-analysis, and AHRQ study[edit]

@Alexbrn: Re your revert and my undo (diff). On my User Talk page you wrote: "Your treatment of the source is undue and gives weight to dubious aspects of it." Could you please explain what you mean by that? For your ready reference:

Here's the text that you had, and to which you reverted:

A 2013 meta-analysis of mindfulness-based therapies concluded that they are useful in treating a variety of psychological problems – for example in helping to reduce anxiety, depression, and stress – and that mindfulness was a "central component" of the therapies' effectiveness.[1] Given the low quality of the underlying data, it is however possible that this conclusion was overstated.[2]

and here's my edit:

A 2013 meta-analysis of mindfulness-based therapies (MBT), involving 209 studies and 12,145 participants, showed that MBT is moderately effective in pre-post studies, superior to some treatments (psychoeducation, supportive therapy, relaxation, imagery, and art-therapy), but not more effective than traditional Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.[1] The analysis indicated that MBT was more effective in treating psychological disorders than it was in treating physical or medical conditions. MBT showed "large and clinically significant effects in treating anxiety and depression", with gains maintained at follow-up. These findings were similar to those obtained in previous meta-analyses.[3] The authors acknowledged, however, the wide variation between the studies in their design, interventions, participants, outcomes, and quality; it it thus possible that their conclusions may be overstated.[4]

Clinical Psychology Review, which published the Khoury study, is a peer-reviewed Academic journal. The study was assessed by at least five reviewers. The limitations of the study were identified by the authors themselves, but I left your citation of the CRD review in the Article anyway.

Thanks; LeoRomero (talk) 01:10, 28 April 2014 (UTC)


  1. ^ a b Khoury, B.; Lecomte, T.; Fortin, G.; et al. (August 2013). "Mindfulness-based therapy: a comprehensive meta-analysis". Clin Psychol Rev (Meta-analysis). 33 (6): 763–71. doi:10.1016/j.cpr.2013.05.005. PMID 23796855. 
  2. ^ Database of Abstracts of Reviews of Effects, Centre for Reviews and Dissemination, 29 November 2013  Missing or empty |title= (help); |entry= ignored (help)
  3. ^ f.e Hofmann, S. G.; Sawyer, A. T.; Witt, A. A.; Oh, D. (2010). "The effect of mindfulness-based therapy on anxiety and depression: A meta-analytic review". Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology. 78 (2). doi:10.1037/a0018555. 
  4. ^ Database of Abstracts of Reviews of Effects, Centre for Reviews and Dissemination, 29 November 2013  Missing or empty |title= (help); |entry= ignored (help)

@Alexbrn: So I don't waste your time responding to the above, I wanna tell you right now that I think I see what you're saying. Am reading that huge AHRQ study, and will edit my edits accordingly. - Thanks; LeoRomero (talk) 06:42, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

@Alexbrn: Here's what I did (diff), I'd appreciate your feedback. - Thanks again; LeoRomero (talk) 08:02, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Random Scribble Outside Context[edit]

"Random Scribble Outside Context" is almost equivalent to "Wikipedia" (d*rn!). More concretely:

  • Section Definitions contains a history, f.ex.
Ellen Langer defines mindfulness as an active search for novel distinctions in the present moment,
appears like verbal nonsense (or a marketing slogan), see definition, a definition must describe what it is and how it differs from other related concepts, while not strictly belonging to "definition" a definition section could also elaborate on how it is used ... but not too much,
  • Section Nature of the practice contains a definition starters that could be elaborated,
  • Section Historical development contains too little but could take over most of the paragraphs from Definitions.

Etc.. Rursus dixit. (mbork3!) 07:13, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Mindfulness as a state[edit]

I've been thinking further over TimidGuy's point of mindfulness as a "state", which may also arise spontaneously. It reminds me of the first jhana, which the Buddha is said to have experienced spontaneously when he was a youth. According to the Nikaya's, Gautama remembered this when he'd decided to quit his ascetic practices. The memory lead him to another approach, culminating in his awakening (according to the Nikaya's). Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 09:02, 6 July 2014 (UTC)


Three sources have been given so far for mindfulness as as state:

I must confess I can't follow his distinction. The basic distinction in buddhism is between samatha and vipassana, concentration and insight. What he describes as "mindfulness meditation" is vipassana, mindfulness aiming at gaining insight into dukkha, anatta and anicca, transcending the personal self - exactly the goal of what he calls "basic meditation"! By the way, Israel calls the Buddha a Hindu; soemone who says so has no knowledge of Indian history.
For Israel, mindfulness is "is a way of being, a way of living day-to-day consciously and mindfully." This is akin to the current popularization of mindfulness, lighter than vipassana, and also lighter than its use in MBSR etc. So, mindfulness not as a state, but as way of being, as in positive psychology.
Conclusion: personal opinion, unreliable classification, poor understanding of Indian religions. Not WP:RS.

"The simplest definition of meditation is learning to do one thing at a time. Building the capacity to quiet the mind has undeniable value at a time when our attention is under siege, and distraction has become our steady state. Meditation – in the right doses — is also valuable as a means to relax the body, quiet the emotions and refresh one’s energy. There is growing evidence that meditation has some health benefits. What I haven’t seen is much evidence that meditating leads people to behave better, improves their relationships or makes them happier.
Consider what Jack Kornfield has to say about meditation. In the 1970s, after spending a number of years as a monk in Southeast Asia, Mr. Kornfield was one of the first Americans to bring the practice of mindfulness to the West. He remains one of the best-known mindfulness teachers, while also practicing as a psychologist.“ While I benefited enormously from the training in the Thai and Burmese monasteries where I practiced,” he wrote, “I noticed two striking things. First, there were major areas of difficulty in my life, such as loneliness, intimate relationships, work, childhood wounds, and patterns of fear that even very deep meditation didn’t touch.
Second, among the several dozen Western monks (and lots of Asian meditators) I met during my time in Asia, with a few notable exceptions, most were not helped by meditation in big areas of their lives. Meditation and spiritual practice can easily be used to suppress and avoid feeling or to escape from difficult areas of our lives.»
There is a difference between mindfulness meditation and simple mindfulness. The latter isn’t a practice separate from everyday life. Mindfulness just means becoming more conscious of what you’re feeling, more intentional about your behaviors and more attentive to your impact on others. It’s about presence — what Ms. Ingram calls “keeping quiet and simple inside, rather than having any mental task whatsoever.
The real challenge isn’t what we’re able to do with our eyes closed. It’s to be more self-aware in the crucible of our everyday lives, and to behave better as a result. That’s mindfulness in action"

This too is not about mindfulness as a state apart from practice, but about the difference between Buddhist insight meditation practice and mindfulness practice in daily life.

It's clear that three different meanings of "mindfulness" are being confused here: mindfulness in daily life, mindfulness practice in a "formal" setting, and Buddhist insight or Vipassana meditation. The issue at stake here is not mindfulness as a "state", but the growing popularisation of mindfulness outside a buddhist and clinical context (aptly called the "Mindfulness movement" [8]; see also Google and Mindfulness Isn't a Trend, It's a Movement). It's perfectly fine to write a section on "Popularisation of mindfulness" in the Mindfulness-article, but it does not warrant the creation of content-forks. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 07:55, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Gosh, it's a great topic! Have a look at this one: How “the Mindfulness Movement Uses Buddhism to Prop Up the White-Supremacist-Capitalist-Cishet Patriarchy”. I also found this book: Jeff Wilson (2014), Mindful America: The Mutual Transformation of Buddhist Meditation and American Culture. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 09:02, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
I tend to base my perspective on the scientific literature. There are scientific instruments used to assess the level of mindfulness that individuals are experiencing. And a body of literature surrounding the characterization and assessment of the mindful state. This includes standardized subjective questionnaires as well as the study of neurophysiological correlates of this state. I feel like much of the content in this article could be moved to other articles and the research section expanded. TimidGuy (talk) 10:52, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
You mean, to focus "Mindfulness (psychology)" on the scientific research on mindfulness - both the (western secular) practice, and the "mindfull state"? Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 11:32, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
here's the source you needed, Tim: Black, David S. (year unknown), A Brief Definition of Mindfulness (PDF)  Check date values in: |date= (help). Trait, state and practice. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 07:44, 8 July 2014 (UTC)


If there is to be a separate article on "daily mindfulness", "mindfulness as a state", "mindfulness as a function", etc.: under which name? With regards to WP:COMMONNAME, the term "mindfulness" is overwhelmingly being used for the western, secular mimdfulness-practice; so that's not the name to be used. What are the alternatives?

So, quite some choices. Mindfulness (state) might be an alternative, supported by Merriam-Webster; the alternative is to make mention of "mindfulness as a state" apart from practice, and to add some links at the Mindfulness (disambiguation) page, which I'll do rigth now.


Attempting to correcting add an edit on ADHD. Someone is deleting and I'm not sure why. Please let me know what I am doing wrong. Lifegaurdgirl (talk) 00:35, 11 February 2015 (UTC)