Talk:My Lai Massacre

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Correct this article[edit]

There are some crucial omissions in the article that should be corrected.

It should be noted at the beginning of the article that the objective of the operation was to engage a VC battalion believed to be headquartered in the coastal village shown on army maps as My Lai 1.

The operation involved three infantry companies - Alpha, Bravo and Charlie - and the US Navy. Alpha Company took up a blocking position to the north of the area of operation. Bravo Company took up a position to the south, close to the coast. The Navy blockaded the coastline to the east.

Many have questioned why the assault began, with Charlie Company, several miles inland to the west when the VC battalion headquarters were believed to be on the coast. Shouldn’t the initial attack have been on the VC headquarters at My Lai 1? This village was not entered by American soldiers until the third and last day of the operation.

First and Second Platoons of Charlie Company roamed through My Lai 4 and killed at will and simultaneously. It is often said that First Platoon killed most of the villagers in My Lai 4 but Second Platoon seems to have killed many too.

Second Platoon did all the killing in the sub-hamlet of Binh Tay to the north of My Lai 4.

There is absolutely no mention of Charlie Company’s Third platoon in the article. Why not? Third Platoon, which was the Command Platoon, entered My Lai 4 after First and Second Platoons and killed villagers too. The company photographer accompanied Third Platoon and the photos most widely known are of villagers killed by the Third Platoon. Third Platoon also finished off many of the wounded left for dead by the other platoons.

Third Platoon also killed several suspects later after interrogation. This should not be omitted.

First Platoon of Bravo Company killed close to 100 villagers in My Khe 4, on the coast, later in the morning. More details about this should be added to the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Twenty-four Thousand Miles (talkcontribs) 10:19, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

Seeking opinions of others[edit]

Please voice your opinion if this concluding sentence belongs to the Section 2 Aftermath of the article, or elsewhere. Thank you, --Murus (talk) 04:37, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Nick Turse, an American historian and investigative journalist, in his book Kill Anything That Moves: The Real American War in Vietnam (2013) wrote that in South Vietnam between 195,000 and 415,000 noncombatants were killed during the war years.

Relevant policies: WP:INDISCRIMINATE, WP:SYNTH, WP:WEIGHT. Anons, new editors, and POV-pushing editors always love to add their little summaries to the end of sections and it's completely obvious every time. That's what this is right here. An editor is determining that to summarize the section we need to mention the total number of civilian casualties in the Vietnam War. But this is not relevant to the My Lai Massacre. That connection is not made in the source. The source does not imply a pattern of civilian casualties as we do. The information isn't bad, and indeed we do cover it at Vietnam War Casualties at great lengths. But putting it here, where it is, is a subtle POV push that is just not acceptable and not necessary. Additionally, the number given, "between 195,000 and 415,000", is the total number of civilians killed by all groups, including the communist forces. Putting this at the end of an article about an American war crime is absolutely ludicrous. PraetorianFury (talk) 16:42, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
Keep This sentence is closely related to the My Lai massacre since it helps to understand why it happened at all and puts things into perspective. The above arguments neatly pack up into WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT --Murus (talk) 03:06, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
Oh, it was you who added it, here. Welp, no surprise to see you rush to defend it. PraetorianFury (talk) 16:50, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
You have said what you wanted and you don't have to say you love me... :)) Now you'll have to wait and listen to what others gonna say, since the issue is and will be under discussion on talk page until all interested parties will be given an ample time to speak up, and then somebody will summarize and close the discussion. Meanwhile, the disputed sentence has to stay in the article, whether you like it or not. If your are genuinely interested in improving the article you can start working on references where there are a lot of doubles, not to waste your precious time. Please, realize that this is all about consensus, on which WP was and is built, and your further deletions will constitute an act of sheer vandalism, my dear friend PraetorianFury. --Murus (talk) 03:06, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
Believe it or not, editors are actually supposed to discuss material with each convince each other what the best course of action is. "Consensus" on Wikipedia is not "revert and then try to find people help you revert". If you have no justification for the material given, then it will stay out. Wikipedia is not a democracy, you should be attempting actual dialog, not hoping for people to agree with you. This is truly bizarre WP:BATTLEGROUND behavior. I don't know how long you've been here, but this is not how we do things, and it looks like you can expect editors besides myself to tell you as much.
And no, the material does not need to stay in. The only policy on the "default" status in an edit conflict is WP:ONUS, which says exclude. Perhaps you should have a read before throwing around accusations of vandalism. PraetorianFury (talk) 17:53, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
"I don't know how long you've been here,..."; "...is absolutely ludicrous"; "...you rush to defend it"; "Perhaps you should have a read before throwing around accusations" = Warning: On several occasions you have crossed the thin red line of WP:No personal attacks! --Murus (talk) 23:13, 20 March 2014 (UTC) P.S. By the way, how's references' clean-up going?
For one, these are not personal attacks (I commented on your contributions and not you). For two, take a look at WP:SPADE. Our policies on civility are not your shield. PraetorianFury (talk) 20:43, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
It's not needed, and indeed appears to be WP:SYNTH. The article isn't about the Vietnam War in general, it's specifically about My Lai; the total number of non-combatants killed is simply not relevant to this article especially since the numbers in isolation are meaningless. This is an article singular American war crime, not the history of war crimes; I fail to see how this statistic increases the understanding of the subject of the article. --jpgordon::==( o ) 03:24, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for your input! --Murus (talk) 23:13, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Allegations of Rape[edit]

The words "kill" or "killed" or "killing" appear collectively in the article over 70 times. The words "rape" or "raping" occur only 4 times in the article. And yet one of those 4 mentions of rape is in the fourth sentence of the article. The citation for that reference when consulted does not include anything beyond the allegations of rape at My Lai against SGT Kenneth Hodges, charges substantiated only by a fallacy of division: "Gonzales speculated that sexual assaults occurred throughout My Lai and Binh Tay: 'I know there was raping because anytime we ever did go into a village there's always raping,'" (William Thomas Allison, My Lai: An American Atrocity in the Vietnam War, page 21).

I'm wondering why speculation of rape is afforded such prominence in the article (the fourth sentence) with only scant evidence to support it. I'm wondering why the 3 other mentions of rape in the article are all allegations against people whom the article itself says "threatened to rape" but who were precluded from raping, either because someone intervened, or because the victim was murdered before the rape could occur. This massacre is well documented -- so where is the evidence of rape, and why isn't it in this article? 2602:306:CCDA:4DB0:F81B:FF11:9EBD:8BAB (talk) 08:03, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on My Lai Massacre. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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N Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers. —cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 21:34, 28 August 2015 (UTC)