Talk:Nirvana (band)

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Pat Smear as a full member.[edit]

I recently had an edit for Pat Smear removed from full time member with the undo being cited for the fact that he was "only a touring member". Pat was absolutely a full time member, joining in 1993 in time for the In Utero support tour, and was featured in interviews and photoshoots, and was invited to perform during the 1994 recording of "You Know You're Right", but was on tour break for the holiday at the time. He was invited to write alongside Kurt several times as well and performed at the last unreleased March 1994 records too, and also suggested "Man Who Sold The World" for the unplugged performance. Not to mention he has also performed in the reunions shows. Pat was a full time member as much as Jason Everman was, and absolutely more than Dave Foster. I have added him in a result. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.224.25.240 (talk) 19:05, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

(moved from my talk.) Mlpearc (open channel) 22:02, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

I'd like to discuss why you keep removing Pat Smear as a full time member. I have given many instances that point to him being a full time member and an important person regarding the bands final (and one of their most important) years as a group. I have not seen any information or cases being made towards Smear being only a touring member. Having Smear listed as a full time member of the group shows that the group dynamic was changing towards the end, and Kurt Cobain added a second guitarist to take the load off himself and add more to the group's future releases. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.224.25.240 (talk) 21:59, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

The consensus among editors on this page has always been that Pat Smear was a touring member. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:14, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
Is this edit war inspired by Reddit? Suggesting that Kurt wanted Pat to be a full-time member doesn't mean Pat was a full-time member. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:23, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
@98.224.25.240: Did you look at the name of the website you're referencing ? www.livenirvana.com, even that explains why you're wrong. Mlpearc (open channel) 22:30, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

It's not about whether he "deserved" to be a member or "was going to be made" a member. No official band source ever named PAt as a member, either in the run of the band or since. Bands have touring members that are very ingrained in the structure of the band for years without being made full members - see Jason White for Green Day: He was a touring member for nearly 15 years before becoming a full member (and is apparently now back to being just a touring member). Or Darryl Jones, who has been playing bass for the Stones since 1993, both live and in the studio. Bands define their own membership with official announcements, press materials, ect, ect. We don't go looking for hints or clues or feelings or anything like that. If you can find an official announcement or interview, or ANYTHING actually stating that Pat was a member of Nirvana (not just played with Nirvana), then I for one would gladly accept it (because I subscribe to the idea that he would have joined if Kurt had lived - but we can't go off that idea, we need evidence.) Seltaeb Eht (talk) 23:50, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

What to do about Smear[edit]

Looking for a solution to the continued addition of Smear as a full member, against established consensus (other discussions about Smear are in the article archives), it is obvious that it's widely mis-understood that Smear was a full member. Pending changes protection (about a year, IMO) would allow page watchers to catch these un-informmed edits before they go live. The "touring members" list in the member's section here, is the only list in the article where Smear should be listed. Maybe an edit filter could help, otherwise I am at a loss as to any other way to combat this, suggestions welcome ! Mlpearc (open channel) 23:46, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Pending changes would have my support. Karst (talk) 11:36, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Members/Past members[edit]

I know this has been discussed a few times in the past, but it is truly inaccurate to list Kurt, Dave, and Krist as current members of a band that has been inactive since 1994. It's ridiculous to list Kurt as a current member of anything, really, considering he's been dead for over 20 years. One justification is that the displayed field doesn't actually say "current" members. While that is true, It's pretty that this is what is meant, considering that the field below it says "past members".

I do get the philosophy behind the current representation: The most relevant members are listed separately from the rest. It's true, it's also inaccurate to list Dale Crover or Dan Peters as equal to Kurt Cobain in Nirvana history. However, the current presentation is a terrible way to achieve this; it's just obviously factually wrong. So I propose that this page implements the system that The Beatles did a little while back. The main, known lineup is listed under past members in the infobox, with a link down to the members section for further information. I believe this is a much better system: It gives due weight to the most relevant lineup of the band, while also not presenting factually wrong information. We should follow a similar system here: List Kurt, Krist, and Dave in the infobox under past members, with a link down to the members section for the others. Seltaeb Eht (talk) 23:40, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Agreed it should say 'Past members' as per Led Zeppelin. Karst (talk) 11:38, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
As no one has raised any objection, I'll go ahead with the edit.Seltaeb Eht (talk) 00:13, 18 September 2016 (UTC)